Crosby vs Malkin

[jeff48109 474]

I'm not out to bash Crosby in my post here. I hope to generate a good discussion here.

So after seeing how the Penguins have struggled recently without Malkin in the lineup, I began to wonder which of the 2, Crosby or Malkin, would you choose to build your team around? Didn't Crosby miss a bunch of games last season and Malkin carried the team during his absence?

I read and hear many commentators out there who will choose Crosby over Malkin because of leadership qualities, which I tend to think are a bit overrated. Now that I live near Penguin-land, I get to see quite a lot of their games on the local fox sports, and unless leadership includes continually yapping away are the refs, slashing opponents whenever he doesn't get a call, I'm not seeing the leadership qualities that commentators talk about.

Now, I'm not out the bash Crosby. I just don't see why the majority of commentators pick him over Malkin. He has a fantastic skill set, but I just think Malkin gets shortchanged in most of the "who would you build your team around" conversation. To me, he has proven he can carry the team without Crosby, and he's a beast physically. Maybe it's because he went AWOL during the 2008 Finals so people tend to downplay Malkin? Or is it just simply because Crosby is North American and Malkin is Russian and most of these commentators are North American?

So my main discussion points are

1) Who would you pick between Crosby and Malkin?

2) Does Malkin get overshadowed by Crosby, justifiably or unjustifiably so?

Edited November 15, 2009 by jeff48109

[Carman 387]

Malkin has more physical talent then Crosby, but he is much like Fedorov in the regard that he looks fantastic one game, then disappears in another. He can take over and dominate games though. Crosby may not have the raw ability, talent and size that Malkin does, but he is one of the best battlers in the NHL he might not score every game, but he does not take shifts off. I'm probably going to get flamed for giving Crosby compliments, but it's very noticeable how much energy and determination Crosby has in his game, that to me is leadership.

I'm a pretty big Pittsburgh fan, 2nd favorite team behind the Wing's and I've watched pretty much every game the past 4-5 years. I just don't see Crosby making the mental blunders Malkin does. I would take Crosby to build my team around. I feel he brings more intangibles. Crosby does get too much attention from the media, and it's effecting people's opinion of him. It's not his fault he was the first star after the NHL lock out. Crosby does overshadow Malkin, and most of it is unjustifiable. But if Malkin had the same scrutiny and expectations that Crosby did/has it would be interesting to see how it would unfold.

[Echolalia 2,961]

Crosby is to Yzerman as Malkin is to Fedorov.

[Carman 387]

Crosby is to Yzerman as Malkin is to Fedorov.

I wanted to say it, but I didn't want to hear the "you can't compare Crosby to Yzerman" spiel. But I completely agree.

[Echolalia 2,961]

I wanted to say it, but I didn't want to hear the "you can't compare Crosby to Yzerman" spiel. But I completely agree.

Well there's certainly points where the analogy will break down, but Crosby is definitely the leader and more of a complete player, similar to Yzerman who was hands down the Wings leader on and off the ice, and played both ends of the game well (this is where I think the analogy breaks down the most, because Crosby still has defensive flaws in my opinion, but time will tell if he can overcome them).

Malkin is a pure scorer and at times seems unmotivated. That is Fedorov to a tee.

[Carman 387]

Yeah, Crosby certainly has big defensive flaws. But he is improving on certain area's(Faceoffs, actually playing on the PK). Yzerman really didn't become a defensive dynamo until Bowman. Yzerman was a better goalscorer then Crosby is. Crosby is probably a better passer. But I can't really think of two players on the same team that would be a closer comparison(even nationalities haha).

[Hockeymom1960 5,107]

I want to know why this thread is on a Red Wings forum?

[Carman 387]

I want to know why this thread is on a Red Wings forum?

Because it's a hockey topic and this is a hockey fan forum. Although threads about Crosby are getting a little tedious.

[Hockeymom1960 5,107]

Because it's a hockey topic and this is a hockey fan forum. Although threads about Crosby are getting a little tedious.

Well then maybe it should be moved to a different forum. It's first and foremost a Red Wings forum.

[Carman 387]

Well then maybe it should be moved to a different forum. It's first and foremost a Red Wings forum.

Not trying to be mean or anything, but no one forced you to read or respond to the thread.

Discuss the Detroit Red Wings, NHL, or hockey in general here!

Is the description of the forum.

[VM1138 1,921]

I don't know about stats, but from watching them up close, when it matters (the Finals, crucial games, etc.) it always seems to be Malkin carrying the team. Crosby seems to disappear, especially when playing the Wings.

I'd say the three most dangerous non-Wings players in the league are Ovechkin, Malkin and Getzlaf.

So yes, I would choose to build a team around Malkin instead of Crosby, in all seriousness, Crosby annoyances ignored.

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

I want to know why this thread is on a Red Wings forum?

It's also for general hockey as well as long as they can stay on topic and the like.

I don't care one way or another to hear about Pittsburgh/Crosby much, but it's pretty damn irritating to see Crosby threads in here as well that have absolutely nothing to do about him and hockey/his hockey game and nothing but an obsessive compuslve fest where so many people are infatuated with the guy or infatuated with jealousy. They are tired of hearing about Crosby, but they talk about him even further about nothing that has to do with anything - what he ate for breakfast, he can't grow a beard, etc.

That being said, this thread is not like that, I hope it doesn't turn into that, and any kind of hockey discussion is welcome on here as long as s**t doesn't hit the ceiling, Red Wings related or not.

To the topic at hand, I'll give Malkin the slight edge in overall talent, but he seems to be very inconsistent, hot/cold. Crosby may not be as talented or productive, but I think he's more consistent/able to be noticed more night in and night out either on the stat sheet or the ice.

They are two of the best in the game at present regardless of how they are compared though.

[cjm502 165]

Please guys, no.

[cjm502 165]

Crosby is to Yzerman as Malkin is to Fedorov.

Even though I was going to let this thread be, I have to disagree. Crosby and Malkin rarely produce much when one is without the other. When they are together they are lethal in the offensive zone. Yzerman still thrived without Feds. He would destroy teams every game his first few years in the NHL, and Stevie was not playing with anyone who had skill even close to Feds skill level.

[Echolalia 2,961]

Even though I was going to let this thread be, I have to disagree. Crosby and Malkin rarely produce much when one is without the other. When they are together they are lethal in the offensive zone. Yzerman still thrived without Feds. He would destroy teams every game his first few years in the NHL, and Stevie was not playing with anyone who had skill even close to Feds skill level.

I made the analogy to emphasize the fact that Crosby is more of a leader, more consistent, and more balanced, and Malkin is more of an offensive powerhouse, yet at times plays uninspired. Not that Crosby literally equals Yzerman in every facet imanginable, or Malkin = Fedorov.

[cjm502 165]

I made the analogy to emphasize the fact that Crosby is more of a leader, more consistent, and more balanced, and Malkin is more of an offensive powerhouse, yet at times plays uninspired. Not that Crosby literally equals Yzerman in every facet imanginable, or Malkin = Fedorov.

Im pickin up what you're layin down. I completely agree with that, maybe im just one of those people that didnt want to see Stevie compared with Crosby :/

[Hockeymom1960 5,107]

Im pickin up what you're layin down. I completely agree with that, maybe im just one of those people that didnt want to see Stevie compared with Crosby :/

Maybe you feel like that is because Stevie would have shaken the hands of the losers of the Cup and wouldn't have called out players because they chose not to play in the All Star game for good reasons.

[b.shanafan14 733]

Malkin is the better player, period. Crosby has a very high skill set, but the more I hear about how Malkin can score at will some games and disappear others and Crosby doesn't score, but cares more, I think we are really splitting hairs and making a lot of assumptions. I'm not saying Crosby isn't without merit, I'm just saying he isn't as good as Malkin and I think we're grasping at straws to to try and find something he is better than Malkin at.

I can see how some people can make the Yzerman-Fedorov comparison, but I think its way off. Yzerman was an incredible player in his prime before numerous injuries and had been with the franchise a decade before Fedorov, everyone loved Stevie so Fedorov felt under appreciated. Crosby was in the league a whole season before Malkin showed up, but Crosby is the poster boy. After Sid's Hart season, Malkin has been the better player save the disappearing act in 2008 Finals which he made up for this passed Final.

Crosby will get more press because he is Canadian. Malkin does get the shaft a bit, because he is the better player. Crosby is a great hockey player, but not the best on his team and his leadership qualities are greatly exaggerated.

[Lidstrom for life 20]

I don't know about stats, but from watching them up close, when it matters (the Finals, crucial games, etc.) it always seems to be Malkin carrying the team. Crosby seems to disappear, especially when playing the Wings.

This is true, however, I think that is more due to the fact that the wings decided to put their effort into shutting down Crosby with Lidstrom and Zetterberg. No disrespect to Malkin but without Crosby I don't know if he would have been as effective.

[Hack & Whack Rule! 160]

I'd rather watch Malkin play before Crosby. If the day ever came when Malkin was going to wear the winged wheel, it would be cool. If Crosby were to come over, meh, I think I'd question the sanity of K.H. I can't really speak to Malkin's leadership abilities, but Crosby's leave much to be desired. Too much immaturity, maybe. Sid definitely overshadows Malkin, because he has been made the poster boy of the NHL, which makes question the sanity of Bettman (sucks). The thing is that Crosby was the first "go to guy" after the lockout, and that helped his star rise. I do think that all of the media attention he gets is way overboard and probably helped make the monster suckhole that he is now. If Geno wore the C for Pittsburgh, maybe it would be the other way around. I don't know for sure. I can't stand watching Crosby, so I'm trying to be unbiassed here.

[Kwame_Kilpatrick 0]

i think malkin does get rejected because hes russian, i mean honestly even when i play nhl 10 and i am doing a fantasy draft i try and pick canadians or americans or even some swedes, but i think hes a more talented player. for some reason crosby reminds me of jason spezza

[Theophany 110]

I don't think either of them are worth the money they get paid, personally. When Crosby, Malkin, or Ovechkin starts to be responsible in their defensive zone, then I'll think they're worth it.

Whether they're worth it or not, I think Crosby is the bigger threat just because he's a better playmaker than Malkin is.

Either way, Overchkin is better than both of them, and Zetterberg and Datsyuk are better than him. That's not me being a homer, either. I also think a guy like Getzlaf is better than the media jerkoff kids.

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

I'd take Crosby for intangibles sake and he can lead. Plus I really hate Malkin with a passion.

[RedWings Gone Wild 6]

Malkin has more physical talent then Crosby, but he is much like Fedorov in the regard that he looks fantastic one game, then disappears in another. He can take over and dominate games though. Crosby may not have the raw ability, talent and size that Malkin does, but he is one of the best battlers in the NHL he might not score every game, but he does not take shifts off. I'm probably going to get flamed for giving Crosby compliments, but it's very noticeable how much energy and determination Crosby has in his game, that to me is leadership.

Your opinions that I've seen regarding Crosby have always been reasonable, so this isn't a flame... that being said, I just have to disagree on a few points. I think the Federov/Malkin juxtaposition is a tempting one to make, albeit misleading to the overall point.. and ultimately leads to the debate of "who was more responsible for our success, Fed or Yzerman." So, similarly, the debate extends into who is more responsible "Malkin or Crosby." Then we must get into the debate of intangibles (leadership etc..)...

What I will say is this... Without Malkin, Pittsburg has CONSISTENTLY failed.

Every. Single. Time.

The season before Malkin was one of the most pathetic seasons I've seen an NHL franchise endure. The season Malkin came in the team rose from 58 pts in the standings to a whopping 105. Granted, both Crosby and Malkin were instrumental in that turnaround, and every1 on the squad had a year of maturity under their belts. But the evidence doesn't end there. The past two seasons the Pens have had injury troubles during the regular season. Each time they do their record either improves or stays the same, and Malkin picks up the slack. Malkin gets injured, Crosby goes on a record pointless streak and the Pens drop 4 straight and 5 of 6.

Lets look at the playoffs then. Malkin had 19 points in 14 games in the eastern conference 08 playoffs, and was their best player prior to the finals. When he vanished, because of fatigue or whatever else, the Penguins were extremely lucky to even take it to 6 games. Crosby was strong in 08, but to no avail. Ironically, when Crosby was getting shut down in the 09 finals, Pittsburgh didn't need him. In the four games Pittsburgh won in the finals, Malkin had 1 goal and 6 assists for 7 points. Crosby had 1 goal and 2 assists for 3 points. Quit frankly, beyond preference in playing style, there is zero evidence suggesting Crosby is the more essential of the two. All signs point to Malkin as being the key ingredient to success. Perhaps that will change in the future, but all signs point to Malkin.

[GoWings1905 2,694]

I don't know about stats, but from watching them up close, when it matters (the Finals, crucial games, etc.) it always seems to be Malkin carrying the team. Crosby seems to disappear, especially when playing the Wings.

I'd say the three most dangerous non-Wings players in the league are Ovechkin, Malkin and Getzlaf.

So yes, I would choose to build a team around Malkin instead of Crosby, in all seriousness, Crosby annoyances ignored.

That's a credit to how damn good Z is defensively too.