Babcock not happy with top line

[Icesurfer 75]

OK.... so I had to look up the stats.... and Bertuzzi is actually WORSE than I thought.

At EVEN STRENGTH Bertuzzi has only 2 goals and 3 assists for 5 points. That ranks him 10th best on the team. The following players are ahead of him in that regard (EVEN STRENGTH):

Helm (tied)

Kronwall

Datsyuk

Abdelkader (3 G)

Draper

Cleary

Ericsson

Homer

Zetterberg

Eaves and Lidstrom also have 5 EVEN STRENGTH points.

Bertuzzi is a MINUS 5. Which means if he has 5 even strength points he was on the ice for 10 EVEN STRENGTH goals against. Obviously even strength points give you more information about a line than total points..... because that line is not necessarily the same line that is on the PP.

I don't know about anyone else but I would NOT pay $1.5 mil for someone who scores 2 goals and who gives up 10 goals in the process. He clearly drags down any line he is on.... and I really didn't need to look up the stats to realize this.... you can just see it on the ice. Maybe some people are not watching the game in HD....LOL. I recommend you get HD..... and you will see the difference for yourself.... on second thought ..... maybe you shouldn't get HD cause then you will realize how bad Bertuzzi is.... LOL...

Helm, Abby, Ericsson and Eaves are paid less than Bertuzzi and they are ALL better checkers, grinders, skaters and puck retrievers than he is. Helm, Datsyuk, Abby, Draper, Ericsson and Eaves also have played less games and have less ice time than Bertuzzi. And btw Bertuzzi is 5th on the team with 16 giveaways and 11 players have blocked more shot than he has.

And peeps think that $1.5 mil for Bertuzzi was a deal..... get real!

Edited November 21, 2009 by Icesurfer

[rage 24]

Bertuzzi was a great deal.

ZDH

Bertuzzi/Cleary/Lenio

Draper/Helm/Eaves

Malts/Abs/May

Beer.

[Icesurfer 75]

If Babcock wants to get Datsyuk going all he has to do is double-shift him.

He can put Datsyuk out there with Homer and Bertuzzi but then after Z's or Helmer's line put Datsyuk out there again with Maltby and Abby.

Not only will Datsyuk get going but you will see that Datsyuk with Abby and Maltby will be a much better skating line than Datsyuk with Homer and Bertuzzi.

Good experiment anyway.... what is there to lose????

Edited November 21, 2009 by Icesurfer

[rage 24]

If Babcock wants to get Datsyuk going all he has to do is double-shift him.

He can put Datsyuk out there with Homer and Bertuzzi but then after Z's or Helmer's line put Datsyuk out there again with Maltby and Abby.

Not only will Datsyuk get going but you will see that Datsyuk with Abby and Maltby will be a much better skating line than Datsyuk with Homer and Bertuzzi.

Good experiment anyway.... what is there to lose????

Nope. I totally disagree respectively.

Datsyuk can get going by adding more minutes? No. If you've seen what I've seen this year, he has made bad passes like he usually doesn't make and almost looks tired out there.

He plays 1st line minutes, 1st PP Unit, and PK, and you suggest more ice time for him by double-shifting? Sorry bud, I totally disagree.

If anything, give him better linemates. Zetterberg. Hell, I'd take Clearly at this point, but don't double shift Datsyuk, this is not the Stanley CUP FINALS my friend!

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

Unless the offense just goes really in the crapper (2 games in an 80+ game season does not count), I just don't see much point yet in reuniting Datsyuk and Zettterberg on even strength when lately the Wings haven't had too much trouble scoring and with injuries galore right now. If that happens, you might want to split up the Speedy Gonzales line since both Helm and Draper can play center without trouble. Not much can be done to switch stuff up right now IMO.

Edited November 21, 2009 by SouthernWingsFan

[Pucks 66]

Datsyuk needs someone on his line that doesn't suck.

[Icesurfer 75]

I am not talking about double-shifting Datsyuk ALL GAME LONG.... I am talking about double-shifting him at crucial times. Obviously, you pick your spots. The whole point as Babcock has stated he has NO INTENTION of changing the first line.... OK FINE..... To a point I agree, because obviously if you change the first line that means other lines that are currently doing well will be changed and I am not in favor of that. Wings have had a tough time finding a line that has been able to score and skate well together... offensively and defensively .....UNTIL DHE Express Line and Cleary-Z-Leino were put together. Even Datsyuk-Z-Homer line did not do well this year.

So, if Babcock does NOT want to change the first line ..... then what does it hurt to play Datsyuk with Abby and Maltby or Abby and Miller for 2 extra minutes per game????? Datsyuk at times gets only 19 minutes. It seems that Z gets 21-22 minutes regularly. The point is that Datsyuk with Abby & Maltby/Miller will be a better skating line than Homer/Bertuzzi..... it wouldn't hurt and who says a line HAS to stay together ALL game long anyway?????

[Dano33 41]

I am not talking about double-shifting Datsyuk ALL GAME LONG.... I am talking about double-shifting him at crucial times. Obviously, you pick your spots. The whole point as Babcock has stated he has NO INTENTION of changing the first line.... OK FINE..... To a point I agree, because obviously if you change the first line that means other lines that are currently doing well will be changed and I am not in favor of that. Wings have had a tough time finding a line that has been able to score and skate well together... offensively and defensively .....UNTIL DHE Express Line and Cleary-Z-Leino were put together. Even Datsyuk-Z-Homer line did not do well this year.

So, if Babcock does NOT want to change the first line ..... then what does it hurt to play Datsyuk with Abby and Maltby or Abby and Miller for 2 extra minutes per game????? Datsyuk at times gets only 19 minutes. It seems that Z gets 21-22 minutes regularly. The point is that Datsyuk with Abby & Maltby/Miller will be a better skating line than Homer/Bertuzzi..... it wouldn't hurt and who says a line HAS to stay together ALL game long anyway?????

Abdelkader might be worth a shot with Datsyuk. But Maltby or Miller with him would be awful. Sure they can skate, but their offensive mindset is on a much lower level than Datsyuk's. Honestly, i think they would look lost out there. There's a reason why Maltby has never scored more than 14 goals in a season, he's not a offensive threat. It just wouldn't work.

[Icesurfer 75]

Abdelkader might be worth a shot with Datsyuk. But Maltby or Miller with him would be awful. Sure they can skate, but their offensive mindset is on a much lower level than Datsyuk's. Honestly, i think they would look lost out there. There's a reason why Maltby has never scored more than 14 goals in a season, he's not a offensive threat. It just wouldn't work.

Maltby wouldn't be doing the scoring..... Obviously, Wings have Datsyuk for that. Maltby would be the one digging the puck out of the corner, skating well, beating other guys to the puck and passing it to Abby or Datysuk..... something Bertuzzi is having a problem with cause he is turning it over....... Bertuzzi committing too many turnovers .

Everyone on a line has a role. Abby heads to the net. Goodness gracious.....again....... I am not talking about them being together for 12 minutes 5 on 5..... I am talking about two lousy minutes.

AND if anyone remembers earlier this year Maltby was IN FACT on the first line in the third perios about 3-4 weeks ago.... when he was hot ..... playing with Datysuk.... I specifically remember that..... so there! LOL.

Edited November 21, 2009 by Icesurfer

[Dano33 41]

Maltby wouldn't be doing the scoring..... Obviously, Wings have Datsyuk for that. Maltby would be the one digging the puck out of the corner, skating well, beating other guys to the puck and passing it to Abby or Datysuk..... something Bertuzzi is having a problem with cause he is turning it over....... Bertuzzi committing too many turnovers .

Everyone on a line has a role. Abby heads to the net. Goodness gracious.....again....... I am not talking about them being together for 12 minutes 5 on 5..... I am talking about two lousy minutes.

AND if anyone remembers earlier this year Maltby was IN FACT on the first line in the third perios about 3-4 weeks ago.... when he was hot ..... playing with Datysuk.... I specifically remember that..... so there! LOL.

I never said anything about this, i don't know why you assume i thought that.

Ok, so Maltby would dig for pucks in the corner, get it to Datsyuk, then what? He doesn't have the offensive mind or skill to cycle with Datsyuk and control the play, he can't just stand in the corner and wait for a battle. It wouldn't work, it would be a waste of Datsyuk's energy because he would have noone to play with, the man can't do EVERYTHING himself.

Edited November 22, 2009 by Dano33

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

Bert's been fine. If he'd shoot the ******* puck instead of passing every single time, he'd have goals. Mike needs to set Bertuzzi straight, because if he doesnt start shooting and driving the net, he's useless.

[eva unit zero 271]

The title of this thread is incorrect. It should say "Babcock not happy with second line"

Datsyuk's line isn't the top line. It hasn't been the top line since day one of the season, and still isn't. Zetterberg's line plays more minutes most nights and Z has outperformed Datsyuk considerably in most aspects.

Just saying.

Yeah, I know, Z started slow, with only a consistent point per game pace through his first 11 games. He dipped for a bit, scoring two over the next four, and since then has scored 11 in 6. Datsyuk has scored 18 points in that same period, with points coming in bunches. Either he gets a few or he gets nothing is the story of his season so far.

[titanium2 867]

The title of this thread is incorrect. It should say "Babcock not happy with second line"

Datsyuk's line isn't the top line. It hasn't been the top line since day one of the season, and still isn't. Zetterberg's line plays more minutes most nights and Z has outperformed Datsyuk considerably in most aspects.

Just saying.

Yeah, I know, Z started slow, with only a consistent point per game pace through his first 11 games. He dipped for a bit, scoring two over the next four, and since then has scored 11 in 6. Datsyuk has scored 18 points in that same period, with points coming in bunches. Either he gets a few or he gets nothing is the story of his season so far.

I've always wondered about that. It seems like whatever line Datsyuk is on is considered the top line in the sense that he's usually their best player on offense.

[GMRwings1983 8,804]

Bertuzzi and Homer should never do business again.

They're both slow and both suck defensively. I know we have injuries right now, but why did Babcock ever think that these guys would mesh?

I would actually put all the eggs in one basket and play Pavel together with Hank. I'd rather have one line that can score, instead of 2 top lines that both can't.

[Icesurfer 75]

Just been watching some games earlier this year and I couldn't believe how many times I heard "Bertuzzzi couldn't pull the trigger". Well, now it's about 15 games later and we are still hearing the same thing. Ken Daniels is probably getting tired of saying it so we probably will here it from the Versus announcers tomorrow... LOL Bertuzzi will just fiddle with the puck long enough to lose it because the defenders know he will turn it over if he doesn't get rid of the puck quickly.

[VM1138 1,921]

I'm wondering if it would really hurt that much to put Abdelkader on a line with Datsyuk for a game, just to see how it works.

We're struggling anyways, and isn't this point in the regular season for experimentation? I know that he's probably not ready yet, but it couldn't hurt to haev him up there for a game. You never know where a spark will come from. For all we know, Datsyuk could be what Abdelkader needs to really come into his own, just like Datsyuk played with Hull.

This isn't a long-term fix (in all liklihood) but A) it can't hurt. B) The upside could be huge. C) It's really the only option we have without screwing up the 2nd and 3rd lines that are actually functioning. D) It would put someone who can actually hit on the top line. E) Bertuzzi could get sent down to the 4th line where he would play against the other teams 4th line and actually might score a few.

We might be better balanced this way and be more effective.

EDIT: I have to admit though this was sparked by NHL '10. I was having scoring troubles and I put Abdelkader up with Datsyuk and they've been tearing it up. But really, is it such an out there idea?

Edited November 23, 2009 by VM1138

[Jake Ryan 1]

Datsyuk needs someone on his line that doesn't suck.

Exactly. I'd love to see Datysuk play with Abdelkader and Helm. Put some speed on Datsyuk's line. Holmstrom and Bertuzzi could run faster than they can skate.

[GoWings1905 2,694]

Exactly. I'd love to see Datysuk play with Abdelkader and Helm. Put some speed on Datsyuk's line. Holmstrom and Bertuzzi could run faster than they can skate.

Good lord. And you think the Datsyuk line has trouble scoring now...

[Kwame_Kilpatrick 0]

it is 100% bertuzzis fault. he is a selfish player and honestly hes just washed up, he thinks he can just snipe it like he was doing when he was a kid in juniors or something. im surprised babcock hasnt called him out, at least leino shows intelligence and ocassional brilliance, bertuzzi is just awful. and jason williams was a waste as well. we shouldve brought in some younger players instead of hoping for some old magic. holland has a weakness for older players- remember when he chose chelios over kyle quincey? obviously a bad move now and it may have cost us a cup, but i wont call him out because he did when us a cup in 02 and we were probably the oldest team ever. but i just think they were too old and theyr holding back younger players and they dont fit the team. i feel like datsyuk and zetterberg are carrying the team by themselves. and i have been impressed with howard as well so that is bonus points for holland

[Drake_Marcus 890]

Good lord. And you think the Datsyuk line has trouble scoring now...

So giving him a winger with stone hands won't help him?

[VM1138 1,921]

Helm-Datsyuk wouldn't work. But Abdelkader-Datsyuk-Holmstrom couldn't be worse, but it could be the spark the team needs.

[skyphoenix 153]

I can't count on my hands the amount of times I have yelled at the TV this season because Bertuzzi either doesn't take the shot when he should or like in the last game where he took the puck over the blue line and instead of dropping it for a defensman or passing it to another forward, he skates across to the left side by himself while he's covered by 2 guys and loses the puck.

[Finnish Wing 110]

Exactly. I'd love to see Datysuk play with Abdelkader and Helm. Put some speed on Datsyuk's line. Holmstrom and Bertuzzi could run faster than they can skate.

GREAT IDEA MAN! This has to be the solution. I mean how could we all be so stupid that we didn't see this earlier? Babcock will definitely do this.

[eva unit zero 271]

Let's look at the current personnel we have, and the two lines that are clicking.

Line 1: Leino/Zetterberg/Cleary

Line 2: ????/Datsyuk/????

Line 3: ????/????/????

Line 4: Helm/Draper/Eaves

So the remaining healthy forwards we have right now for those last five spots are are who, Bertuzzi, Holmstrom, Abdelkader, Maltby, May, and Miller.

Bertuzzi and Holmstrom on a line together was never a good idea, and clearly isn't working. Bertuzzi can't shoot for s*** right now and he's trying too much to be a playmaker, while Homer is on fire. So put Bertuzzi on the third line and leave Homer with Dats. Abs is the only center left in the group. May is the guy I would leave out, which means that it's just a matter of arranging Miller, Abs, and Maltby. Maltby should be on the third line because the only thing he could possibly offer the second line offensively is already covered very well. Maltby can't center a line, so it's basically Miller or Abs for the second line winger and third line center positions. Abdelkader is the natural center, so we start with him centering Bertuzzi and Maltby and see how that goes while Miller, who has a solid defensive game, good speed, and a decent shot could do well on the Dats line. This leaves us with:

Leino/Zetterberg/Cleary

Miller/Datsyuk/Holmstrom

Bertuzzi/Abdelkader/Maltby

Helm/Draper/Eaves

[Carman 387]

Bertuzzi is the best option right now. Until Flippula comes back we have to stay with the current lines. It's not perfect, but that's what happens when you have injuries. Bertuzzi is hitting and shooting, he isn't Franzen so don't expect him to be. Datsyuk is going to have to step up and carry the line for a couple more weeks. It's not like the production on the line is nothing, they are still getting opportunities and have been scoring a decent amount.

Honestly I think the whole blame Bertuzzi thing is the wrong situation to focus on. Obviously it's not ideal, but I'm much more worried about our defensive game then our offensive game.