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NickA

Bertuzzi SUCKS

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Neither was I. My point is that Bert is playing equally well if not better than Filppula who should be playing far better given the salary he was awarded for his potential and at the same time given the fact that he's in the prime of his career where as Bert's is winding down.

I don't understand how this point has been missed.

read="overpaid"?

The point that no one has brought up is that Bertuzzi still has stink on him for his sins of the past. For that reason he came to us at a discount.

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Bert is being asked to play on the second line, and he is making it worse.

I'm not trying to compare anyone. It's not me who is bringing up Filppula, I just defend him.

Where do you want him, the 5 line? He is not going to center a line...

Read the effing article I posted about his recent play and transition from a all offensive player which he was in Vancouver to more of a 2-way player.

Run-n-gun does not fit into the Wings system, it is all about puck possession.

Edited by Rivalred

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FWIW I wasn't asking you to split topics as much as I was trying to be snide and make a jab contrary to not only yours, but the few other posts around it which echoed the sentiment. You're entitled to dump any posts you want, but I didn't see it or mean it as a request to do so. Maybe I accidentally shouted "fire" in the theater.

To a certain degree it was bitching about Val because it was hardly an objective or thorough comparison of players and only showed where Bert excelled and Val lacked. I also understood clearly you were arguing against Val to make a stronger case for Bert. In my eyes they can both independently suck (they don't), and Bert's penalty last night sucked (as it does almost every night) but didn't cost us the game.

As can any pair of players, they absolutely can independently suck or excel, but the point of my post was simply a response to another. Nothing more, nothing less.

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As can any pair of players, they absolutely can independently suck or excel, but the point of my post was simply a response to another. Nothing more, nothing less.

fair enough. moving right along...

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Bert is being asked to play on the second line, and he is making it worse.

As opposed to who in the current lineup that would make it better?

I'm not trying to compare anyone. It's not me who is bringing up Filppula, I just defend him.

...and I stated that.

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Where do you want him, the 5 line? He is not going to center a line...

Read the effing article I posted about his recent play and transition from a all offensive player which he was in Vancouver to more of a 2-way player.

Mostly I want him to stop sucking. I'm not saying he shouldn't be on the second line, he has proven he can, but right now he is just sucking. And it makes me feel better to talk about it, so I post here.

And he's been okay defensively, but he's been horrible in the offensive (and neutral) zone for the most part.

As opposed to who in the current lineup that would make it better?

Right now, anyone. Except maybe Draper.

Edited by Z and D for the C

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read="overpaid"?

The point that no one has brought up is that Bertuzzi still has stink on him for his sins of the past. For that reason he came to us at a discount.

It's not the stink for his sins that caused the discount, its that he plays without the edge he used to due to it. Not only that, his career is winding down and he's not as effective as he once was. How many great offensive players you know kept up their numbers toward the end? While Bert's defensive play isn't typical of most great Red Wings we've come to be used to, it's certainly improved leaps and bounds. How many players can say that at this point in their careers?

Perhaps we're saying one in the same and I just misunderstood you.

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Mostly I want him to stop sucking. I'm not saying he shouldn't be on the second line, he has proven he can, but right now he is just sucking. And it makes me feel better to talk about it, so I post here.

And he's been okay defensively, but he's been horrible in the offensive (and neutral) zone outside for the most part.

Right now, anyone.

Wings are running a bit lean or haven't you noticed

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Mostly I want him to stop sucking. I'm not saying he shouldn't be on the second line, he has proven he can, but right now he is just sucking. And it makes me feel better to talk about it, so I post here.

And he's been okay defensively, but he's been horrible in the offensive (and neutral) zone outside for the most part.

Right now, anyone.

Please! All that's going to happen by sticking anyone else in that slot is wasted space and poor matchups. Has Bert's defensive play been weaker than it was earlier in the season: you bet. Does anyone below him have the ability to put the puck in the net better: no.

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Does anyone below him have the ability to put the puck in the net better: no.

Work matters more than ability. I'm not saying Bert doesn't have the ability, of course he does. The problem is that he isn't working hard at all. I'd advocate putting Eaves on the second line, but that would ruin what we've got going for us in the bottom 6.

Wings are running a bit lean or haven't you noticed

So?

Edited by Z and D for the C

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Work matters more than ability. I'm not saying Bert doesn't have the ability, of course he does. The problem is that he isn't working hard at all. I'd advocate putting Eaves on the second line, but that would ruin what we've got going for us in the bottom 6.

Guess someone else wearing #44 who went across the crease creating one of the better scoring opportunities last night

So?

So....

Your boy Flip needs to step up and take some of the load off of Z... That is what it boils down to...

Edited by Rivalred

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Work matters more than ability. I'm not saying Bert doesn't have the ability, of course he does. The problem is that he isn't working hard at all. I'd advocate putting Eaves on the second line, but that would ruin what we've got going for us in the bottom 6.

So?

Only to an extent. Guys like Abdelkader, while hard-workers simply don't have the natural talent to stack up with other teams' top-6. Obviously it will help bridge the gap, but you're still going to have too sizable of a space for it to even matter.

That's why the term "role players" exists.

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Your boy Flip needs to step up and take some of the load off of Z... That is what it boils down to...

You want him to do better than 9 points in 9 games and a 6 game point streak? And people say I have bloated expectations.

Only to an extent. Guys like Abdelkader, while hard-workers simply don't have the natural talent to stack up with other teams' top-6. Obviously it will help bridge the gap, but you're still going to have too sizable of a space for it to even matter.

That's why the term "role players" exists.

Fair point, but I simply think the second line needs another person who is hard working and can create some pressure. The problem is that the second line isn't sustaining any pressure off the rush. Filppula can't do everything himself, you know.

Edited by Z and D for the C

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Right now, anyone. Except maybe Draper.

A stealth edit and now Drapes in the mix...

If I had my way, I would be sitting Kindl and Drapes would be playing D.

You want him to do better than 9 points in 9 games and a 6 game point streak? And people say I have bloated expectations.

He is the #2 center this team now... Yes, I want more of an effort from him. Prime example, how he played last year when he was needed...

Edited by Rivalred

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You want him to do better than 9 points in 9 games and a 6 game point streak? And people say I have bloated expectations.

Fair point, but I simply think the second line needs another person who is hard working and can create some pressure. The problem is that the second line isn't sustaining any pressure off the rush. Filppula can't do everything himself, you know.

Obviously pressure pays off but if the players doing so have rocks for hands, not only will the goals be few and far between, the talent of the opposition will more often than not have them chasing in their own zone the entire shift thus negating their effectiveness.

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Prime example, how he played last year when he was needed...

Not even going to get into it...

Obviously pressure pays off but if the players doing so have rocks for hands, not only will the goals be few and far between, the talent of the opposition will more often than not have them chasing in their own zone the entire shift thus negating their effectiveness.

With Hudler and Filppula, there is enough skill on the line. All three players need to work hard or the line will fail, and Bert isn't working at all, let alone hard.

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Not even going to get into it...

With Hudler and Filppula, there is enough skill on the line. All three players need to work hard or the line will fail, and Bert isn't working at all, let alone hard.

Why won't you get into that?

Why aren't you acknowledging Bert's scoring opportunity last night?

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Not even going to get into it...

With Hudler and Filppula, there is enough skill on the line. All three players need to work hard or the line will fail, and Bert isn't working at all, let alone hard.

Hudler is no harder of a worker than Bert....and the way things have gone for Huds since his return, there's nothing to show his offensive talent would be near Bert's *at this point.*

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Why won't you get into that?

Because it's a ridiculous notion that you are implying and I've done it 1000 times.

Why aren't you acknowledging Bert's scoring opportunity last night?

Because I don't recall it. If you remember when it was, I will go watch it.

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Because it's a ridiculous notion that you are implying and I've done it 1000 times.

Because I don't recall it. If you remember when it was, I will go watch it.

How is it ridiculous and you really did it 1000 times? Not sure 1001?

So you do not recall it, therefore it didn't happen? Did you even watch the game? Sheesh...

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Hudler is no harder of a worker than Bert....and the way things have gone for Huds since his return, there's nothing to show his offensive talent would be near Bert's *at this point.*

Hudler has been a little better as of late. But frankly, both have been underachieving, which makes it even more impressive that Flip has 9 points in his last 10 factoring in his injury.

How is it ridiculous and you really did it 1000 times? Not sure 1001?

So you do not recall it, therefore it didn't happen? Did you even watch the game? Sheesh...

Yeah, exactly 1000 times. What a coincidence.

And I never said it didn't happen.

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It's been made abundantly clear by Babcock that he expects different things from different players. Bert is expected to be a net presence, as per Babcock: "If he doesn't go to the net, he won't be playing with those guys"

Yet, you seemingly expect Bert to ignore his coach and play the way you want him and expect him to play. What you want from him is not what Babs wants. He wants Bert to be a hard body to move in front of the net and hustle back on the backcheck. That's what he's been doing all season long. In fact, his penalty last night was a result of him backchecking. Old school Bert would have still been pushing someone around in front of the net.

It's pretty s***ty to place Flips expectations onto Bert's shoulders and then slam him when he can't possibly live up to them.

Edited by Broken 16

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Hudler has been a little better as of late. But frankly, both have been underachieving, which makes it even more impressive that Flip has 9 points in his last 10 factoring in his injury.

Yeah, exactly 1000 times. What a coincidence.

And I never said it didn't happen.

Well, don't go saying players are not working hard when obviously on that specific play he did.

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Hudler has been a little better as of late. But frankly, both have been underachieving, which makes it even more impressive that Flip has 9 points in his last 10 factoring in his injury.

We'll have to agree to disagree then because if one has been playing better than the other, its nothing more than splitting hairs....and if we're strictly talking offense up to this point, it's no competition.

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BERTUZZI IS LAZY AND HE SUCKS

and unless we're winning 90-0 every game en route to a 98-0 record, EVERYONE IS LAZY AND THEY SUCK

Edited by Hiei

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