WingzFan 0 Report post Posted November 30, 2009 You want to put a guy with no scoring touch with a playmaker? Do you have any knowledge of hockey at all? Had you said Eaves, fine. Helm? Really? Helm is fast and creates a lot of opportunities, but he's got a terrible scoring touch. Everyone who watched the last game (St Louis) saw that. Helm is never going to be a great scorer as a matter of fact hes the second coming of Draper. But anyone with "knowledge of hockey" can see that Helm creates a lot of opportunity with his speed and is ridiculously good along the boards. So much so that he can create opportunities for Datsyuk to score more. Currently the options are.. - Datsyuk beats three guys and gets into the zone and sets up Bertuzzi who wont shoot or will shoot and it'll be in the goalies chest. - Bertuzzi brings it into the zone, gets the puck striped or tries to pass it and fails. - Datsyuk dumps it around the boards, Holmstrom and Bertuzzi are too slow and the defending team recovers the puck. Datsyuk needs at least one player with something resembling speed to at least open things up. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Carman 387 Report post Posted November 30, 2009 Can't just randomly throw inexperienced 3-4th liners on the top line. Bertuzzi at least has experience playing against other team's top lines. We are missing 2 of our top 6 cannot just replace that perfectly, Bertuzzi is the only thing evenly closely resembling a top 6 winger we have left. Helm,Abdelkader are both centers and won't be used as wingers until Flippula gets back. Eaves is the only thing that may work and Babcock already made him a healthy scratch. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WingzFan 0 Report post Posted November 30, 2009 Can't just randomly throw inexperienced 3-4th liners on the top line. Bertuzzi at least has experience playing against other team's top lines. We are missing 2 of our top 6 cannot just replace that perfectly, Bertuzzi is the only thing evenly closely resembling a top 6 winger we have left. Helm,Abdelkader are both centers and won't be used as wingers until Flippula gets back. Eaves is the only thing that may work and Babcock already made him a healthy scratch. Roll three lines and give one of those "Inexperienced" players at least an opportunity to play. Experience is great.. all of our experience will be invaluable on the golf course. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
haroldsnepsts 4,826 Report post Posted November 30, 2009 Helm is never going to be a great scorer as a matter of fact hes the second coming of Draper. But anyone with "knowledge of hockey" can see that Helm creates a lot of opportunity with his speed and is ridiculously good along the boards. So much so that he can create opportunities for Datsyuk to score more. Currently the options are.. - Datsyuk beats three guys and gets into the zone and sets up Bertuzzi who wont shoot or will shoot and it'll be in the goalies chest. - Bertuzzi brings it into the zone, gets the puck striped or tries to pass it and fails. - Datsyuk dumps it around the boards, Holmstrom and Bertuzzi are too slow and the defending team recovers the puck. Datsyuk needs at least one player with something resembling speed to at least open things up. So just so I'm clear on you're reasoning, an all-star player like Datsyuk needs a rookie 4th liner to help him score? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Carman 387 Report post Posted November 30, 2009 Roll three lines and give one of those "Inexperienced" players at least an opportunity to play. Experience is great.. all of our experience will be invaluable on the golf course. Yeah great idea roll 3 lines. Yep. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WingzFan 0 Report post Posted November 30, 2009 So just so I'm clear on you're reasoning, an all-star player like Datsyuk needs a rookie 4th liner to help him score? Yes thats it. I'll agree with you just to help your insane dismissive argument. You can't even comprehend that Datsyuk's game suffers when hes playing with the two slowest players on the team? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WingzFan 0 Report post Posted November 30, 2009 Yeah great idea roll 3 lines. Yep. I forgot that Abdelkader and May were carrying this team... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Carman 387 Report post Posted November 30, 2009 I forgot that Abdelkader and May were carrying this team... No no having Datsyuk play 30 minutes is just what this injury riddled team needs. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WingzFan 0 Report post Posted November 30, 2009 No no having Datsyuk play 30 minutes is just what this injury riddled team needs. Datsyuk is playing 20 minutes a game on average. Adding a two minutes to the other three lines will not kill them. But oh wait, theres no middle ground between a four line team and team Getzlaf. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Carman 387 Report post Posted November 30, 2009 Datsyuk is playing 20 minutes a game on average. Adding a two minutes to the other three lines will not kill them. But oh wait, theres no middle ground between a four line team and team Getzlaf. Anaheim is certainly benefiting from that. Babcock is not going to stop rolling 4 lines. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
haroldsnepsts 4,826 Report post Posted November 30, 2009 Yes thats it. I'll agree with you just to help your insane dismissive argument. You can't even comprehend that Datsyuk's game suffers when hes playing with the two slowest players on the team? It's not dismissive, I'm just trying to figure out your reasoning. It sounds like you're saying that Datsyuk success in the NHL is tied in part to the skating speed of his wingers. Yes? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WingzFan 0 Report post Posted November 30, 2009 Anaheim is certainly benefiting from that. Babcock is not going to stop rolling 4 lines. Anahiem is five points behind Detroit.. So four line certainly isn't benefiting Detroit not at the expense of our best player. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WingzFan 0 Report post Posted November 30, 2009 It's not dismissive, I'm just trying to figure out your reasoning. It sounds like you're saying that Datsyuk success in the NHL is tied in part to the skating speed of his wingers. Yes? Datsyuk is the top line center on this team. I think it would be appropriate to have him on a line with at least one player with NHL caliber speed before saying that hes not playing up to his potential. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Carman 387 Report post Posted November 30, 2009 Anahiem is five points behind Detroit.. So four line certainly isn't benefiting Detroit not at the expense of our best player. Yeah Anaheim certainly is battling through the devastating back spasms of Lupul. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WingzFan 0 Report post Posted November 30, 2009 Yeah Anaheim certainly is battling through the devastating back spasms of Lupul. Id wager that Carlyle has changed his lineup more than once in an attempt to get things going. You know.. thats what good coaches do, they don't blame injuries they produce with what they got. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Carman 387 Report post Posted November 30, 2009 Id wager that Carlyle has changed his lineup more than once in an attempt to get things going. You know.. thats what good coaches do, they don't blame injuries they produce with what they got. Carlyle is much better than Babcock. Get it done Kenny. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WingzFan 0 Report post Posted November 30, 2009 Carlyle is much better than Babcock. Get it done Kenny. This is Babcock's first experience with true adversity in regards to the Salary cap and major injury issues. Yes we had issues in regards to injured defenseman in 2007 but we had stacked forwards also. This is Babcock's first true test and its not going well. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Carman 387 Report post Posted November 30, 2009 This is Babcock's first experience with true adversity in regards to the Salary cap and major injury issues. Yes we had issues in regards to injured defenseman in 2007 but we had stacked forwards also. This is Babcock's first true test and its not going well. Oh I agree fire Babcock. How dare he start the season like this. WCF-Stanley Cup trips for the past 3 years is boring anyways. He got lucky getting that Team Canada job too. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WingzFan 0 Report post Posted November 30, 2009 Oh I agree fire Babcock. How dare he start the season like this. WCF-Stanley Cup trips for the past 3 years is boring anyways. He got lucky getting that Team Canada job too. Steve Yzerman and Ken Holland have nothing to do with that... Best coach ever Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
haroldsnepsts 4,826 Report post Posted November 30, 2009 Datsyuk is the top line center on this team. I think it would be appropriate to have him on a line with at least one player with NHL caliber speed before saying that hes not playing up to his potential. So we shouldn't criticize Datsyuk because Bertuzzi can't skate fast enough? You're bent out of shape because people are criticizing your boy for underperforming, which he is. Coming off a second consecutive 97 point season, he had 9 points in 16 playoff games, and now 6 goals and 13 assists in 23 games. It's not a bold statement to say that's less than expected. That's not to say he's the only one or that he can't turn it around and hopefully will soon, but the reality is this has been a slow start for Dats. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Carman 387 Report post Posted November 30, 2009 Steve Yzerman and Ken Holland have nothing to do with that... Best coach ever Agreed how dare Holland for hiring Babcock in the first place. He should be fired as well, bad GM. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WingzFan 0 Report post Posted November 30, 2009 So we shouldn't criticize Datsyuk because Bertuzzi can't skate fast enough? You're bent out of shape because people are criticizing your boy for underperforming, which he is. Coming off a second consecutive 97 point season, he had 9 points in 16 playoff games, and now 6 goals and 13 assists in 23 games. It's not a bold statement to say that's less than expected. That's not to say he's the only one or that he can't turn it around and hopefully will soon, but the reality is this has been a slow start for Dats. The problem is people are expecting 100 points when hes playing with two fourth liners. Its a little unrealistic. Zetterberg was given a pass because of linemates last season but Datsyuk cannot. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WingzFan 0 Report post Posted November 30, 2009 Agreed how dare Holland for hiring Babcock in the first place. He should be fired as well, bad GM. Only better GM in sports history is Brian Cashman. Doing so much with soo little talent.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Carman 387 Report post Posted November 30, 2009 The problem is people are expecting 100 points when hes playing with two fourth liners. Its a little unrealistic. Zetterberg was given a pass because of linemates last season but Datsyuk cannot. That's because Datsyuk doesn't have a Conn Smythe. I wish we traded him for Lang back in the day. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GoWings1905 2,694 Report post Posted November 30, 2009 (edited) This is so laughable. I thought the only reason Z ever produced was because he played with Datsyuk? Z doesn't exactly have quality finishers as linemates either. I love Danny Cleary, but he isn't a sniper and Leino hasn't done anything this season. Quit blaming Datsyuk's issues on his linemates. The entire team (especially the big guns) needs to step it up when the circumstances right now are less than ideal. The Red Wings are working hard and they just need to grind out some wins until Fil and Franzen come back and fill out the top six. We're lucky to have both Pavel and Z. Why do we always need to pit them against each other? Edited November 30, 2009 by GoWings1905 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
