WingzFan 0 Report post Posted November 30, 2009 More to being a center than faceoffs. This team is full of bottom six defensive forwards. You can trap teams to death, if you're not scoring you're not winning. Having Datsyuk and Zetterberg split is completely unecessary. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GoWings1905 2,694 Report post Posted November 30, 2009 If an excuse is good for Zetterberg or Lidstrom then it should be fine for Datsyuk. But since it never is and Datsyuk is always held to a higher standard you're going to make this a Datsyuk vs Zetterberg argument to discredit it. Zetterberg slumped all last season and nearly every thread was filled with excuses ranging from linemates to the fact that he was a "Shut down center". That's not an excuse -- it's the absolute truth. Zetterberg plays against the opponent's top line both regular season and playoffs. Which center was out there every shift against Nash in the first round, then the Getzlaf line, Toews/Kane in the WCF and shutdown Crosby in the finals? Datsyuk was invisible during the playoffs, injury or not. I reckon that was because of his linemates right? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Carman 387 Report post Posted November 30, 2009 That's not an excuse -- it's the absolute truth. Zetterberg plays against the opponent's top line both regular season and playoffs. Which center was out there every shift against Nash in the first round, then the Getzlaf line, Toews/Kane in the WCF and shutdown Crosby in the finals? Datsyuk was invisible during the playoffs, injury or not. I reckon that was because of his linemates right? Hossa doesn't have NHL caliber speed. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WingzFan 0 Report post Posted November 30, 2009 That's not an excuse -- it's the absolute truth. Zetterberg plays against the opponent's top line both regular season and playoffs. Which center was out there every shift against Nash in the first round, then the Getzlaf line, Toews/Kane in the WCF and shutdown Crosby in the finals? Datsyuk was invisible during the playoffs, injury or not. I reckon that was because of his linemates right? Zetterberg didn't shutdown Getzlaf.. he out scored him. Datsyuk plays against the other teams top defenseman and shutdown unit. Zetterberg plays with Lidstrom and faces the other teams top line. And no, Datsyuk injuries prevented him from scoring in the playoffs. What prevented Zetterberg scoring over 90 points in the regular season? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GoWings1905 2,694 Report post Posted November 30, 2009 Zetterberg credit for what? Being a PPG player while playing with top six wingers? Because it doesn't seem like any credit is being given to Datsyuk, who is playing with two anchors and still playing Selke hockey. When did Ville Leino become a top six winger? I haven't witnessed any evidence to prove that is the case. Kris Draper has more goals than Leino. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lidstrom for life 20 Report post Posted November 30, 2009 This dude needs a suspension or something for the way he worded the thread title. My heart skipped a beat when I read "shocking news about Datsyuk." No kidding. I think there should be a rule like you can't start a thread until you have been a member for at least a week or something too. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WingzFan 0 Report post Posted November 30, 2009 (edited) Hossa doesn't have NHL caliber speed. Datsyuk had the best season of his career last year statistically, won a Selke, finished third in Pearson and MVP voting. Now hes playing with two fourth liners and isn't on pace for 80 points. I think its safe to say that linemates affect every player. But of course it doesn't apply because player speed has nothing to do with their ability. Edited November 30, 2009 by WingzFan Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WingzFan 0 Report post Posted November 30, 2009 No kidding. I think there should be a rule like you can't start a thread until you have been a member for at least a week or something too. Ive been a "member" of this site for longer than 95% of the posters. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Carman 387 Report post Posted November 30, 2009 Datsyuk had the best season of his career last year statistically, won a Selke, finished third in Pearson and MVP voting. Now hes playing with two fourth liners and isn't on pace for 80 points. I think its safe to say that linemates effect every player. But of course it doesn't apply because player speed has nothing to do with their ability. Playoffs? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GoWings1905 2,694 Report post Posted November 30, 2009 Draper, Helm, Cleary, Abdelkader and call take faceoffs just fine. And like I said above, you can roll three lines instead of four. The only thing holding back a D-Z-H line is Babcock. If they were winning and in the playoffs fine but they're not. Babcock doesn't like change, his record speaks for that. I don't care if they win every faceoff they take. This is the second line center position we are discussing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WingzFan 0 Report post Posted November 30, 2009 Playoffs? Injury? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GoWings1905 2,694 Report post Posted November 30, 2009 Injury? I seem to recall he wasn't producing before the injury either. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Carman 387 Report post Posted November 30, 2009 Injury? Yzerman never complained about injuries. Maybe if Datsyuk had heart he would of battled through. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WingzFan 0 Report post Posted November 30, 2009 I seem to recall he wasn't producing before the injury either. Three games vs the rest of the season. I seem to recall Zetterberg being "off" all season and the endless excuses that followed. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WingzFan 0 Report post Posted November 30, 2009 Yzerman never complained about injuries. Maybe if Datsyuk had heart he would of battled through. Yzerman never won on a team without an all star lineup either. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Carman 387 Report post Posted November 30, 2009 Yzerman never won on a team without an all star lineup either. Neither has Datsyuk. At least Yzerman was the best player on the team unlike Datsyuk. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GoWings1905 2,694 Report post Posted November 30, 2009 Three games vs the rest of the season. I seem to recall Zetterberg being "off" all season and the endless excuses that followed. He showed up when it mattered (like he always does). Z carries the Red Wings April through June. I'll take that every time over gaudy numbers in the middle of January. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lidstrom for life 20 Report post Posted November 30, 2009 Ive been a "member" of this site for longer than 95% of the posters. I should have known, your lack of logic and incredible ability to ramble fits right in! Seriously though what are we suppose to be talking about on this thread? Is it like Datsyuk vs Zetterberg? Or Holmstrom and Bertuzzi suck? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WingzFan 0 Report post Posted November 30, 2009 He showed up when it mattered (like he always does). Z carries the Red Wings April through June. I'll take that every time over gaudy numbers in the middle of January. Those "guady numbers" allow the team to make the playoffs. You also fail to mention Datsyuk's playoff runs in 06, 07, 08. But I forgot.. choke artist. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WingzFan 0 Report post Posted November 30, 2009 I should have known, your lack of logic and incredible ability to ramble fits right in! Seriously though what are we suppose to be talking about on this thread? Is it like Datsyuk vs Zetterberg? Or Holmstrom and Bertuzzi suck? Lets discuss just how overrated and over paid Nicklas Lidstrom is. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Carman 387 Report post Posted November 30, 2009 Those "guady numbers" allow the team to make the playoffs. You also fail to mention Datsyuk's playoff runs in 06, 07, 08. But I forgot.. choke artist. Where is his Conn Smythe? I don't recall him ever getting one? Guess he wasn't the most important player for the Wing's... Tough for you to swallow eh? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GoWings1905 2,694 Report post Posted November 30, 2009 (edited) Those "guady numbers" allow the team to make the playoffs. You also fail to mention Datsyuk's playoff runs in 06, 07, 08. But I forgot.. choke artist. Please, while Datsyuk's numbers are incredibly impressive -- the Red Wings were never in any jeopardy of not making the playoffs those years. Datsyuk has had some solid playoff years, but Zetterberg has been better. The Red Wings don't win the Stanley Cup in 2008 without Z's dominance at both ends of the ice (good time to mention that Conn Smythe). Edited November 30, 2009 by GoWings1905 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WingzFan 0 Report post Posted November 30, 2009 Where is his Conn Smythe? I don't recall him ever getting one? Guess he wasn't the most important player for the Wing's... Tough for you to swallow eh? Its as ridiculous an argument as suggesting that Yzerman ever wins without Fedorov. No Datsyuk, no cup. No Fedorov, no cups. Zetterberg didn't win anything by himself and as a matter of fact has never been a superstar without playing with Datsyuk. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Carman 387 Report post Posted November 30, 2009 Its as ridiculous an argument as suggesting that Yzerman ever wins without Fedorov. No Datsyuk, no cup. No Fedorov, no cups. Zetterberg didn't win anything by himself and as a matter of fact has never been a superstar without playing with Datsyuk. No one is saying Datsyuk didn't help. But he wasn't as good as Zetterberg or Lidstrom. He doesn't raise his game to the levels of Zetterberg when they matter. At least not yet. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yzerfan1999 81 Report post Posted November 30, 2009 What the hell is going on here. First, you scare the s*** out of everyone with that title, then you proceed to defend Datsyuk like you guys are frickin' related, and then claim your credibility by saying you have been around longer then everyone. Settle down, the guys not producing and people are starting to worry. Its happened to every Red Wing. We all still love Pavel, and deep down we know he will still finish with 80+ points. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
