Enough Jimmy Howard Bashing

[Opie 308]

Ye of short memory, what did MAF's rookie campaign look like?

Hasek?

I am not saying Howard won't be the next Stephan Liv, but there is nothing saying he will or won't be the next Mike Richter either.

The guy has what 25 games under his belt and you know for a fact what his end result is.

You must win the lotto a lot!

[StormJH1 231]

He's certainly turned a corner. Put it this way: at the beginning of the year, I was pretty sure we were going to need to acquire (or call up) a goaltender or we'd be in big trouble. Now, even though the team has continued to struggle, I no longer feel that goaltending is a primary issue for concern. Especially compared to the goaltending we were getting from Osgood in 08-09 (he was one of the league's worst in the regular season).

[Outsider 42]

Ye of short memory, what did MAF's rookie campaign look like?

Hasek?

Wow. Talk about "Ye of short memory".

Ummmm.....

MAF was a First Overall draft pick who was projected to be an elite "Franchise Goaltender" at the NHL level from the time he was about 13-14 years old.

And Dominik Hasek was a dominating force in the Czech League long, long, LONG before he was drafted, let alone played in his "rookie year".

[Theophany 110]

Ye of short memory, what did MAF's rookie campaign look like?

Hasek?

I am not saying Howard won't be the next Stephan Liv, but there is nothing saying he will or won't be the next Mike Richter either.

The guy has what 25 games under his belt and you know for a fact what his end result is.

You must win the lotto a lot!

Nah, I know I won't win the lotto, so I don't play.

In all seriousness, I don't know what will become of Howard. He's had moments of brilliance and moments where I'm wondering if he's ever played the position. He could turn out to be almost as good as Hasek (minus the 'OMG WTF ARE YOU DOING OUT IN THE CIRCLES HASEK'), or he could turn out to be the next Manny Legace.

[sliverck 3]

Go back and look at the comments about Howard early in the season. The majority of this board was bashing him, oblivious to the fact he'd only played in 8 NHL games since being assigned to Grand Rapids after college. Good thing this board doesn't run the Red Wings. How does crow taste?

[Drake_Marcus 890]

Yeah I'm supporting Howard now.

But if only we could trade Osgood for anything. I'll take a roll of tape for Osgood, man he sucks.

Osgood did this same routine in the regular season last year only to play amazing hockey in the playoffs, so I don't see why you're ready to ditch him at this point.

[RedWings Gone Wild 6]

Predicting a goaltender's career outlook is subjective because it's really almost as much to do with opportunity/expectations as innate ability. A rookie campaign is by no means an indication of future value or future worthlessness. Predictions to either extreme are misguided. Goalies go from Hero to Zero to Hero again on a regular basis in this league... just look at Mason. Hell, even Hiller looks like he's on the verge of losing his job to Giggy (another ironic hit or miss goalie).

[interminded 1]

We're evaluating goaltending based on 15 games ?

He played exceptional in how many ? 3 ? Maybe 4 ?

No wonder that every single goaltender in Detroit disappoints at one point.

Let's set the bar even higher for Jimmy... to make sure the bashing starts before the second half of the season... jeez..

Ask Raycroft about expectations after one good season.

Or Steve Mason.

Or Jim Carey

Or Jose Theodore.

And Jimmy isn't even close to those guys.

[Casey 145]

Good job I didn't say winner then, eh?

Yeah, but if we're going to play, may as well play big.

Just some numbers to play with...

Patrick Roy, first full season with the Canadiens- 23-18-3, 3.35 GAA, 0.875 save percentage.

Marc-Andre Fleury, first full season with the Penguins- 13-27-6, 3.25 GAA, 0.898 save percentage.

Nikolai Khabibulin, first full season with the Jets- 26-20-3, 3.13 GAA, 0.908 save percentage.

He's doing better than those three.

[newfy 695]

He's proven he can definitely keep us in games and be a reliable back up for sure. 15 games is hard to judge this on but now he seems to have alot of confidence compared to early in the season and its showing.

Now the people who are saying future Vezina, 15 games is not nearly enough to judge that.

For sure a nice save on that penalty shot last night though.

[interminded 1]

Yeah, but if we're going to play, may as well play big.

Just some numbers to play with...

Patrick Roy, first full season with the Canadiens- 23-18-3, 3.35 GAA, 0.875 save percentage.

Marc-Andre Fleury, first full season with the Penguins- 13-27-6, 3.25 GAA, 0.898 save percentage.

Nikolai Khabibulin, first full season with the Jets- 26-20-3, 3.13 GAA, 0.908 save percentage.

He's doing better than those three.

Honestly, how many goaltenders can you name which have better numbers in their first year ?

Besides that, he played 15 games and you want to compare him to three random first-season-goaltenders in the history of the NHL after a full season ?

How subjective do you want to get ?

Sawchuk never one a shootout and Jimmy has ?

Jimmy has started more consecutive games in his first 15 NHL games than Dominik Hasek did in his first season ?

[mjlegend 155]

Osgood did this same routine in the regular season last year only to play amazing hockey in the playoffs, so I don't see why you're ready to ditch him at this point.

Because Osgood isn't Crosby.

Jimmy Howard's numbers have been very impressive, but I think Osgood's are also better compared to last season. They've turned into a pretty good one-two punch in net in the regular season right now. Now, the defence on the other hand... I think we can pretty safely bash a lot of them at this point.

[Guest zackmorris]

i wasn't big on howard before this season, but he's stepped up and shown he belongs. i've been more than satisfied with his play thus far. let's hope he keeps it up. as for the vezina talk. i hope that's a joke. that's even more ridiculous than eva saying fischer would have been a multiple norris winner had his career continued.

i have seen nothing in his play to indicate him vying for future vezinas.

Why is it ridiculous? Because he didn't play it super safe and went out on a limb a little bit? Sometimes you can't make a guess that doesn't seem at the moment as if it'd ever be true without getting flamed.

[Guest zackmorris]

And about Osgood in the playoffs, well, he's not in his 20s. Just because it happened a couple of times doesn't mean it always will. We're just creatures of safety and routine in this matter. At some point, he's not going to do it in the playoffs again. And we'll need a new goalie.

I don't see much talk about Ozzie's age around here or anywhere really. I think we get caught up in other things but he's not young and at some point we're going to have to start wondering if he's run out of gas.

[Kwame_Kilpatrick 0]

me n me mate watch games all the time n we reckon howard is brilliant

[chrisdetroit 189]

Ye of short memory, what did MAF's rookie campaign look like?

Hasek?

I am not saying Howard won't be the next Stephan Liv, but there is nothing saying he will or won't be the next Mike Richter either.

The guy has what 25 games under his belt and you know for a fact what his end result is.

You must win the lotto a lot!

MAF is not an elite goltender. He's pretty good but look at the numbers. He has a 0.907 career save %. That's not too spectacular. Marty Brodeur at .915, Luongo .919 even Osgood is at .905.

[Hiei 192]

Are we now up to Goalies 1A and 1B?

[Hockeytown_Ryan 122]

Yeah I'm supporting Howard now.

But if only we could trade Osgood for anything. I'll take a roll of tape for Osgood, man he sucks.

OK did you not celebrate the 4 recent cup wins?? he was here for 3 of them and started for 2...

I'll send you a roll of tape if you'll use it to tape your hands together so you can't type any more.

VERY NICE

anyone remember 07-08 season. osgood as backup wins cup

Thank You ....

Talk to me when he back stops us to a Stanley Cup...

Im not saying he sucks..... But again... he's a solid guy so far .. He's got Cheveldae written all over him!

[SweWings 45]

Hopefully he'll get enough starts this season to prove himself as a starter if he's capable. Before the season started I was doubtful of what he could accomplish, now I really have no idea; more time is necessary.

[Carman 387]

Geez little serious here. It's the Red Wing's forum someone has to be bashing Osgood so he gets motivated. It's worked everytime. There is a method to my madness.

[Outsider 42]

Also needs to be mentioned that Howard has faced a spate of bottom feeders, whereas Osgood has faced mostly Play Off Teams.

A bit more info for the Stat Junkies:

Of Howard's 14 Decisions

Play Off Teams faced - 3 (DAL (x2) #13; COL #8; ATL #14)

Games played vs Play Off Teams - 4

Wins vs Play Off Teams - 1

Points against Play Off Teams - 2/8

% Games against Play Off Teams - 29% (4/14) (none ranked higher than 8th)

Points: 2

% Games against bottom feeders - 71% (10/14) (none ranked higher than 18th)

Points: 15

Of Osgood's 15 Decisions

Play Off Teams faced - 11 (SAN #1; WAS #2; CHI #4, CGY (x2), #5; BOS #6, NJ #7, COL #8, LOS #9, PHO #10, BUF, #11, NSH #12)

Games played vs Play Off Teams - 12

Wins vs Play Off Teams - 6

Points against Play Off Teams - 15/24

% Games against Play Off Teams - 80% (12/15) (9 of the Top 10, #11 & #12)

Points: 15

% Games against bottom feeders - 20% (3/15) (#22, #27, #29)

Points: 1

Thus far this Season, the Wings have faced 9 of the Top 10 Teams in the League. Osgood has been in net for ALL of those Games, (twice against Calgary). He's garnered 15/20 points from those Top 10 Teams.

Edited December 8, 2009 by Outsider

[MabusIncarnate 5,359]

I don't know if this deserved it's own thread or not, but in efforts to avoid being blasted if I repeated something that's already been posted, I'll put it up here. An article on espn.com posted today has declared that Jimmy Howard is now officially the Red Wings starting goaltender. Link below, apologies if someone has posted this already.

http://sports.espn.go.com/fantasy/hockey/f...e=openice091207

[Outsider 42]

I don't know if this deserved it's own thread or not, but in efforts to avoid being blasted if I repeated something that's already been posted, I'll put it up here. An article on espn.com posted today has declared that Jimmy Howard is now officially the Red Wings starting goaltender. Link below, apologies if someone has posted this already.

http://sports.espn.go.com/fantasy/hockey/f...e=openice091207

because I refuse to use the annoying little smilie bastards....

<rolls eyes>

I wouldn't quite call this an "article". Sean Allen is the FANTASY HOCKEY guy at ESPN, for Pete's sake.

<sheesh>

[MabusIncarnate 5,359]

I am capable of reading and i'm well aware that it's from the fantasy hockey section of ESPN. "It was only a matter of time. Jimmy Howard is now the Detroit Red Wings' starting netminder." It's a pretty bold statement I thought was worthy of bringing up in conversation. If it had the words "chances are" or "it's projected that" I would have passed it over and not bothered posting the link at all.

Thanks for your input on the thread topic though, it apparently wasn't as much of as waste of space as my post was.

[Outsider 42]

I am capable of reading and i'm well aware that it's from the fantasy hockey section of ESPN. "It was only a matter of time. Jimmy Howard is now the Detroit Red Wings' starting netminder." It's a pretty bold statement I thought was worthy of bringing up in conversation. If it had the words "chances are" or "it's projected that" I would have passed it over and not bothered posting the link at all.

Thanks for your input on the thread topic though, it apparently wasn't as much of as waste of space as my post was.

All I'm saying is that the same exact guy, said the same exact thing, last year. Only he said it about Ty Conklin.