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Jimmy Howard watch thread


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#641 GMRwings1983

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Posted 25 March 2011 - 06:14 PM

MacDonald is an AHL goalie with zero playoff experience. That's why you start Howard. This team will lose if MacDonald is their playoff goalie. MacDonald has been a solid backup this season. Some people are trying to make him out to be more than what he is. It's the Conklin situation all over again.

It's more than Howard. This whole team has been wildly inconsistent this year. Your goaltending will suffer if your defense is hanging him out to dry night after night.


You should change your user name to Howard He Don't Do It.

Although the defense has been subpar, I don't think they're leaving him out to dry anymore than other teams are with their netminders. He's near last in the league in GAA and save % for starting goalies. I don't think our defense is the "worst" in hockey, to deserve those numbers. Last year there wasn't much pressure on him, so he did well. However, this season, he's shown that he can't handle the pressure of being the goalie in Hockeytown.
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#642 Nightfall

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Posted 25 March 2011 - 06:34 PM

You should change your user name to Howard He Don't Do It.

Although the defense has been subpar, I don't think they're leaving him out to dry anymore than other teams are with their netminders. He's near last in the league in GAA and save % for starting goalies. I don't think our defense is the "worst" in hockey, to deserve those numbers. Last year there wasn't much pressure on him, so he did well. However, this season, he's shown that he can't handle the pressure of being the goalie in Hockeytown.

This post is just further proof that according to some Wings fans no goalie is good enough to goaltend in Detroit.

Edited by Nightfall, 25 March 2011 - 06:35 PM.

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#643 Doc Holliday

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Posted 25 March 2011 - 06:58 PM

This post is just further proof that according to some Wings fans no goalie is good enough to goaltend in Detroit.


It's more like proof that posts can be easily dismissed by some people.

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#644 greenrebellion

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Posted 25 March 2011 - 06:59 PM

You should change your user name to Howard He Don't Do It.

Although the defense has been subpar, I don't think they're leaving him out to dry anymore than other teams are with their netminders. He's near last in the league in GAA and save % for starting goalies. I don't think our defense is the "worst" in hockey, to deserve those numbers. Last year there wasn't much pressure on him, so he did well. However, this season, he's shown that he can't handle the pressure of being the goalie in Hockeytown.


Great post, I get really sick of hearing about how awful our defense is. I mean it certainly isn't the best in the league, but they make it sound like we have an AHL defense out there. Every defense makes mistakes, gives the puck up, and fails to cover a man every once in a while. I just don't see how so many can assign basically all the blame on the defense and non on the goaltending.

#645 Nightfall

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Posted 25 March 2011 - 07:46 PM

It's more like proof that posts can be easily dismissed by some people.

Goaltending is always going to be a question mark to people in Detroit. You name any goalie in our last 4 cup championship teams, and all of them have been under the magnifying glass. Even after they win a cup, no respect is given to them. This is the way it is always going to be in Detroit. Even last year when Howard was solid in net and helping us get into the playoffs, people here and other Wings fans I know never gave him any credit. Today, its no different. If Howard plays amazing, it is what he is supposed to do. Anything less, and its horrible. Being as that no goalie plays at that high of a level every game, there is no goalie who is good enough to goaltend in Detroit.
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#646 gcom007

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Posted 25 March 2011 - 08:29 PM

Goaltending is always going to be a question mark to people in Detroit. You name any goalie in our last 4 cup championship teams, and all of them have been under the magnifying glass. Even after they win a cup, no respect is given to them. This is the way it is always going to be in Detroit. Even last year when Howard was solid in net and helping us get into the playoffs, people here and other Wings fans I know never gave him any credit. Today, its no different. If Howard plays amazing, it is what he is supposed to do. Anything less, and its horrible. Being as that no goalie plays at that high of a level every game, there is no goalie who is good enough to goaltend in Detroit.


Are you kidding me? Who wasn't giving Howard credit last year? I don't recall anyone who said much of anything other than he was just about the only reason we even made the playoffs. At most, there were people critiquing certain elements of his game that were problematic. Rebound control has always been an issue that gets attention and he had a tendency of having rather glaring bad games every 5-6 starts, though the other starts tended to be a good to great efforts. but that was about the extent of it. I really don't think anyone knocked Howard's play last year during the regular season and he didn't get the Calder nomination by accident.

That said, once the playoffs kicked in, he took a lot of flack, but that's to be expected when you set such a high standard for your play during the regular season and then you don't even come close to playing at that level in the playoffs when you're really supposed to be elevating your game. And aside from just a generally lackluster performance, he gave up too many soft goals at inopportune times and too many fast back to back goals early on in games. The same type of play got Hasek pulled in 2008.

So of course the fans are going to be upset and doubtful over the summer. Playoffs are everything. If you don't have it in the playoffs, it doesn't matter what you can do in the regular season. That's why this year is so important for him.

And then when you look at this year, there's little you can say to really dispute people who are skeptical. I'm honestly optimistic right now given the last few weeks as I outlined before, and I really would like to see the guy have a successful outing this year, but realistically, I can't make an objective argument to suggest that people are wrong to have concerns heading into the playoffs. He had a rough year any way you shake it, a rough first playoff experience, and it's far too easy (and historically you're far more likely...) to join the rookie year wonder club for goalies. And again, let's not forget that it took him longer to get here at all because he was slow to develop and only got a shot because Detroit was out of minor league options for him.

So again, you can't really sit here and say that no one gave him any credit last year because that is so far from the truth, and you can't completely blame those who are skeptical of him given the way things have progressed over time. At this point, I'm with you in thinking that there's a fair amount to be excited about and I really do like his chances of excelling in this post-season. I think he's bring his game up at the right time and so long as he keeps improving, he's going to be in a real good spot for game 1 of round 1.

If he can battle through the pressure and elevate his game, he'll be successful when it counts, and trust me, you won't be needing to defend him for awhile. In the meantime, I wouldn't pay too much mind to those doubting; they've got objective reasons to be concerned. Just give it time. We'll know a lot by game 4. And by game 5, I think he'll either be in and playing well, or on the bench and on his way to being traded. I don't see a lot of in-between. If he blows it, I don't see the Wings wasting time hoping he'll get it right the 3rd time. He's got a contract that'll be really easy to slide into a deal for a new goalie.

But he's also got the potential to be great, and I think and hope he will be.

Either way, there's little we really know until we get there.
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#647 gcom007

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Posted 25 March 2011 - 08:39 PM

Great post, I get really sick of hearing about how awful our defense is. I mean it certainly isn't the best in the league, but they make it sound like we have an AHL defense out there. Every defense makes mistakes, gives the puck up, and fails to cover a man every once in a while. I just don't see how so many can assign basically all the blame on the defense and non on the goaltending.


It goes both ways. In terms of the goaltending, the defense was just as bad if not worse last year and Howard played great despite it, so this year when he struggles, it's really tough to just sit around and blame the defense. He was making all the big saves last year, and he wasn't making them this year. His issues became more glaring and his tendencies more exposed, allowing guys to better figure out how to beat him. So I'm with you there.

But the other reality of the matter is that our defense underachieves big time as well.

Sure, other teams have their fair share of defensive issues, but they also don't have near as strong of a group of guys as we do. There's no excuse for how poorly they've played since we last won the Cup because nearly the same group proved game in and game out for a couple years that they were about the best defensive group in the league. They should just be improving as the younger guys mature. Hell, we didn't even have to deal with Lebda this year!

Plain and simple, the defense has been mediocre through 3 regular seasons now. Howard played great to battle through it last year. This year, Howard hasn't played as great so he couldn't battle through it in such a strong manner. This is simple. Why anyone continues to try and blame either the goalies or the defense more than the other this year is way beyond me.
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#648 GoWings1905

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Posted 25 March 2011 - 08:45 PM

:scared: *GASP* :scared:

Say it isn't so! The team let him down? No way!

You might not want to say something like that because it just upsets the Howard haters.


Why is it anyone that questions Howard hates him? I have no reason to hate Howard or root against him - it doesn't benefit me to see him stink it up in goal for the team I want to win.

Sure, the team has let him down on many nights this season but Jimmy deserves plenty of blame too. He has been mediocre at best all season and his stats in goal confirm this. The defense stunk last year too and Howard was able to bail the team out on many occasions. He isn't even giving them a chance to win some nights (the Pittsburgh game). He doesn't have to be Carey Price or Pekka Rinne but unless Jimmy Howard steps up his game in goal, the Red Wings will be lucky to win a playoff round. He's the weakest goalie of any playoff contending team in the West.

Edited by GoWings1905, 25 March 2011 - 08:48 PM.

 
 
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#649 Crymson

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Posted 25 March 2011 - 09:10 PM

You should change your user name to Howard He Don't Do It.

Although the defense has been subpar, I don't think they're leaving him out to dry anymore than other teams are with their netminders. He's near last in the league in GAA and save % for starting goalies. I don't think our defense is the "worst" in hockey, to deserve those numbers. Last year there wasn't much pressure on him, so he did well. However, this season, he's shown that he can't handle the pressure of being the goalie in Hockeytown.


He's also tied for first in the league in wins.

Yeesh. Some people here...

#650 GoWings1905

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Posted 25 March 2011 - 10:14 PM

He's also tied for first in the league in wins.

Yeesh. Some people here...


That's a reflection on the Red Wings offense, not on Jimmy Howard's play in goal. Nashville wins because of Pekka Rinne, the Red Wings win because of their firepower up front. There are very few, if any, starting NHL calibre goalies that wouldn't have the same number of wins as Jimmy with that talent in front of them on offense.
 
 
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#651 Mabuhay Red Wings

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Posted 25 March 2011 - 10:31 PM

I was curious and so I checked on some stats.

Last year the Wings were 9th in shots against per game. This year they're 14th.
In goals against per game last year they were 7th. This year they're 17th.

Not sure if one of the defense or goaltending are to blame more than the other.

#652 Nightfall

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Posted 25 March 2011 - 10:45 PM

Plain and simple, the defense has been mediocre through 3 regular seasons now. Howard played great to battle through it last year. This year, Howard hasn't played as great so he couldn't battle through it in such a strong manner. This is simple. Why anyone continues to try and blame either the goalies or the defense more than the other this year is way beyond me.

This I agree with 100%.
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#653 GMRwings1983

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Posted 25 March 2011 - 11:19 PM

He's also tied for first in the league in wins.

Yeesh. Some people here...


I hope that's a sarcastic post on your part.

His being first in wins has to do with this team scoring a lot. They've won in spite of Howard and not because of him.

This post is just further proof that according to some Wings fans no goalie is good enough to goaltend in Detroit.


Yes, that's exactly what that post meant. :rolleyes:

Edited by GMRwings1983, 25 March 2011 - 11:19 PM.

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#654 RedWingsExpert1988

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Posted 26 March 2011 - 12:23 AM

After reading all these comments I agree that Detroit's defense has been questionable. Howard is an average goalie like osgood. He is horrible with rebounds and positioning though. I don't care who will argue with me about how osgood has won a whole bunch of cups and so on. Howard can also win the cup with defense like chelios, murphy, and steve duchense on top of nick lidstrom as the core defense.

I can't seem to point any fingers other than the defense costing us games. If you look at our fowards they are considered some of the best defensive offensive guys in the league. I mean if we didn't have pavs leading in take aways and hank not doing amazing back checking then how many goals a game would we be allowing more?

I can see Howard allows bad goals but look at some of the best goalies out there. They CANT win in the playoffs. I understand you're goalie has to sometimes be you're best player but thats also why there is no "I" in team.

Stop pointing fingers at Howard and look at how lazy the defense is and how many mistakes they keep making every night.

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#655 Howard He Do It?!

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Posted 26 March 2011 - 04:14 AM

You should change your user name to Howard He Don't Do It.

Although the defense has been subpar, I don't think they're leaving him out to dry anymore than other teams are with their netminders. He's near last in the league in GAA and save % for starting goalies. I don't think our defense is the "worst" in hockey, to deserve those numbers. Last year there wasn't much pressure on him, so he did well. However, this season, he's shown that he can't handle the pressure of being the goalie in Hockeytown.

Oh the comedy genius. I'm laughing so hard.

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#656 Firehawk

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Posted 26 March 2011 - 11:08 AM

That's a reflection on the Red Wings offense, not on Jimmy Howard's play in goal. Nashville wins because of Pekka Rinne, the Red Wings win because of their firepower up front. There are very few, if any, starting NHL calibre goalies that wouldn't have the same number of wins as Jimmy with that talent in front of them on offense.


I'm glad some people get it. Thank you for not being a superficial retard when someone says "but he's got the most wins in the league". So ridiculous.

QFT.

I was a howard supporter last year. i thought he was great. I was hoping it wasn't just because other teams hadn't figured him out. YOu could make this case this year that that's precisely what's happened. Other teams studied howard, and now they know how to beat him. The Wings defense last year was not great either, but Howard was much better. This year the defense is about the same it seems, and Howard's numbers are terrible for being on a super power like the Red Wings.

If we had a proven solid goalie on this team this year I argue that that goalie would have even more wins.

For those saying the defense has hung him out to dry all year, that's just ridiculous. Take the game the other night where Howard got pulled on all 4 of those goals. Tell me which goal the defense left him 'out to dry' on? Howard gave up big rebounds, one of which he never even bothered to cover when it came right through the crease right by his stick. It made no sense. Howard is slow to get from post to post, he over-reacts on shots, and he rarely ever controls rebounds. This is not the making of a good goalie.

Now last year, I gave him the free pass. Even in the playoffs, I didn't care how many bad goals he let in. I just cared that he gained experience for this year. This year he does NOT get any passes from me. I've called him out this season, and if he does not elevate his game in the playoffs, then I will be calling for his head in the off season. There is no excuse. Now that he knows the speed of the NHL regular season versus playoffs, there's no excuse. It's time to become the goalie we need him to be, or start over with another goalie.

With that being said, I feel Howard does get the start in net for the beginning of the playoffs. This would typically be where I say if he doesn't measure up after a couple of games, he should be pulled and put Ozzie in and hope he can do the same as in prior playoff years. But I don't know what the answer would be this time. You can't throw in a pure rookie like MacDonald if Howard buckles. And what a shame, another entire season would be wasted.
U GUYS ARE FUKIN ANYOING IM GONNA COME DOWN THERE AND KILL ALL YALL THE ONLY THING THAT SAVED UR TEAM WAS OSGOOD AND OSSGOOD SUKS 2 JUST LIKE UR WHOLE FUKIN TEAM I HOPE U HEARD THIS AND THINK CAUSE ALL I GOT TO SAY TO U IS UR A BUNCH OF FUKIN IDIOTS BARONS A HOOSER CUSE HE WENT TO UR TEAM AND I HOPE U GUYS SHOULD SEND UR TEAM TO ANOTHER CITY CAUSE U GUYS ARE A BUNCH OF FUKIN WHINERS GO CANUCKS GO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! --- A canucks fan on stltoday.com

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#657 sputman

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Posted 26 March 2011 - 11:15 AM

He's also tied for first in the league in wins.

Yeesh. Some people here...


hell, manny legace had a pretty good win percentage and some sparkling GAAs during his time as our backstop.

http://www.hockeydb....ay.php?pid=3081

now he's in delaware playing for the iserlohn roosters. :blink:
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#658 eva unit zero

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Posted 26 March 2011 - 06:45 PM

Goaltending is always going to be a question mark to people in Detroit. You name any goalie in our last 4 cup championship teams, and all of them have been under the magnifying glass. Even after they win a cup, no respect is given to them. This is the way it is always going to be in Detroit. Even last year when Howard was solid in net and helping us get into the playoffs, people here and other Wings fans I know never gave him any credit. Today, its no different. If Howard plays amazing, it is what he is supposed to do. Anything less, and its horrible. Being as that no goalie plays at that high of a level every game, there is no goalie who is good enough to goaltend in Detroit.


Vernon came in during the summer of 1994. The Wings had just traded Tim Cheveldae, possibly the most hated Wings goalie ever, to get an "upgrade" in net with Bob Essensa, who lasted two playoff games. The 1994 season ended with a rookie Chris Osgood misplaying a puck and the Cup-favorite Wings being ousted in seven games as a result. Osgood has taken flak for "You cost us 1994" despite being the primary reason the team lasted past game five. Vernon was a Cup winner, and was only a couple of years off his prime as a Vezina contender. Vernon played tandem with Osgood for three years, being a significant factor in both the Cup finals loss to the Devils in 1995 and the Cup win in 1997. He never had a huge segment of doubters, and he went out winning the Cup. So your statement should be "last three cup championship teams" and not include 1997.

I was curious and so I checked on some stats.

Last year the Wings were 9th in shots against per game. This year they're 14th.
In goals against per game last year they were 7th. This year they're 17th.

Not sure if one of the defense or goaltending are to blame more than the other.


Even just from that, the defense is clearly at fault for part of the increased goals against, but the goaltending also is not at the same level.

Despite playing through injuries and seeing sporadic starts, Osgood has significantly better numbers this season, numbers not too different from Howard's. Joey MacDonald's numbers resemble, over a much smaller number of games, Howard's from last season.

Given that, we can say that the primary factor is Howard's drop in play, and the secondary factor is the defense; both Osgood and MacDonald have been considerably better than Osgood's overall season was in 09-10.

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#659 Howard He Do It?!

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Posted 26 March 2011 - 07:08 PM


Even just from that, the defense is clearly at fault for part of the increased goals against, but the goaltending also is not at the same level.

Despite playing through injuries and seeing sporadic starts, Osgood has significantly better numbers this season, numbers not too different from Howard's. Joey MacDonald's numbers resemble, over a much smaller number of games, Howard's from last season.

Given that, we can say that the primary factor is Howard's drop in play, and the secondary factor is the defense; both Osgood and MacDonald have been considerably better than Osgood's overall season was in 09-10.

Osgood played in 11 games to Howard's 57. Ozzie also saw his starts when the Wings were arguably playing their best hockey of the season. Is that the best you can do? And save me any stat extrapolations. Those are a joke.

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#660 Howard He Do It?!

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Posted 26 March 2011 - 08:22 PM

I'm nervous. Howard is playing amazing and ******* Lupul sits on him.

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