A Word About the Goaltending

[gcom007 1,465]

This thread is generally in response to numerous posts in other threads in which people are putting a tremendous amount of emphasis on the goaltending as the means to our success and more so to our continued success as the injuries continue to pile up. Basically, I think the suggestion that our goalies need to "stand on their heads" for us to win to be utterly stupid. I find the idea to be lacking in substance due to the the way is being presented. I also believe that you're setting yourself up to hate Jimmy Howard if you adopt such a ridiculous perspective on the situation.

So let's step back for a minute...

We need our goalies to play well, but they do not need to stand on their heads to win games.

Here is some truth: Our defense has generally been FAR better this year than last. Even with Lebda and Meech in the lineup every night, our defensive group and our team defense has improved significantly since last regular season and most notably since the start of this season when it was absolutely abhorrent. Remember that? The first month of the season? We actually had most of our guys in the lineup at that point. I know, that must feel like an eternity ago considering the current situation. But truly, it's amazing how quickly people seem to be forgetting October already.

Neither of our goalies were putting up good numbers. Osgood was playing well sans one really rough night and Howard was playing just fine. Granted, we weren't really winning, but the most overwhelming reason why was because the team as a whole was absolutely awful. Our defense didn't give our goalies a chance most nights. No one jumped down Osgood's throat too much at the time but people were ready to string up Howard and then feed him to the wolves. Osgood got the benefit of the doubt in many ways as he was coming off a strong playoffs and it was fairly obvious that the defense was non-existent in many games, but again, 99% of this board wanted Howard gone at that point.

But suddenly in early November, despite the injuries piling up, we finally get a winning streak going. We finally get the defense playing defense. We finally get our forwards back-checking. The team realizes that with all the injuries, especially the loss of Franzen, that they'd have to actually play defense (duh.........) to stand a chance. And what do you know, they start playing defense and Howard actually has an opportunity to get something going and now he's everyone's hero. Amazing how that works...

I'm not trying to take away anything from Howard as he's played well, but both of our goalies have played well this season for the most part. Osgood's "seemed" worse lately because when he got sick, Howard was able to be the guy and we got going on the upswing. Incidentally, early on when Howard is getting his first starts which are bound to be a little nerve-wracking for him, his ROOKIE mistakes were amplified because he had no team in front of him.

But for both guys, when they've looked at their worst, or perhaps more accurately, when they've put up "bad" numbers, it was at a point when they had a terrible team in front of them. I don't care how good a goalie is, they're not going to put up great stats and save the day when they have nothing happening in front of them. I don't care if it's Howard or Luongo. Maybe a Luongo or Brodeur steals one or two games here and there, but you're still going to lose most nights.

I make such a strong point of this because I know the second Howard starts to slip, he's going to catch hell, and it'll be relentless once again. I also would venture to guess that it'll likely correlate with the defense slipping as well. As I've said before, I'll say it again: it's not fair or reasonable to throw these guys to the curb when they don't have a team in front of them. Try to remember what our defense was like when these guys were at their worst numbers wise and think about how the defense is playing now. Then when things get shaky again, try to look at the broader situation as opposed to instantly pointing a finger at the guys wearing the most pads.

More truth: You can only reasonably expect so much from rookies, and you can only expect so much from goalies when they don't have teams that play defense in front of them.

Osgood has had to deal with the latter this season while Howard has had to deal with both elements working against him. Osgood will be fine because he's used to the fans pettiness by now, but don't set Jimmy Howard up to fail. He's played well and I certainly hope he continues to, but this is still his rookie season and there are numerous things he needs to work out in his game. It'll be pathetic if he starts slipping a bit (and let's be realistic, he probably will at some point) and all of the sudden we have to go back to 18 goalie threads a day and absurd trade ideas.

Osgood deserves better after all he's done and Howard deserves his chance (and our patience...) as much as anyone at this point.

[MannyK 16]

excellent post!

Detroit goalies = win!

[XxGoWingsxX 0]

Bravo OP. I couldn't agree with your post more. Everything You said just made so much sense.

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

Nice in theory and I completely agree with you, but no matter how unfair it might be the general population of Red Wings fans turn into idiots when goaltending is the main talk, more often than not.

[interminded 1]

Well said.

[GMRwings1983 8,804]

With this depleted lineup, we do need our goalies to stand on their heads.

Especially in these games against Chicago. We can't outscore too many teams right now so the goalies will have to be better than they have before.

[cmonster 11]

For the most part we don't need spectacular lights out goaltending. On most nights if we give up 2 goals or less than we really should win a good portion of those. If we lose, you should probably look at the forwardds. The tricky part of our situation is to find the hot hand and ride them until they lose. Jimmy Howard seemed to lose a little momentum today (12/19), but we were going to Osgood anyway for the next game. Now, its Ozzie's turn to get hot and carry the team for a while.

[Guest Crymson]

With this depleted lineup, we do need our goalies to stand on their heads.

Especially in these games against Chicago. We can't outscore too many teams right now so the goalies will have to be better than they have before.

Needing them to do so in order to win games is quite a different matter from being able to reasonably expect them to do so. Want a goalie that can steal games on a regular basis? Get Luongo, Brodeur or someone else of the like. Right now we've Howard and Osgood. They are solid, but they are not as talented as some other goalies in the league.

[GMRwings1983 8,804]

Needing them to do so in order to win games is quite a different matter from being able to reasonably expect them to do so. Want a goalie that can steal games on a regular basis? Get Luongo, Brodeur or someone else of the like. Right now we've Howard and Osgood. They are solid, but they are not as talented as some other goalies in the league.

In this era of goaltending, you can reasonably expect any goalie to get hot and steal games for a certain stretch.

Ozzie and Howard are no less capable of it than these other jobber goalies who are coming out of nowhere and going on hot streaks.

[dat's sick 1,002]

Nice in theory and I completely agree with you, but no matter how unfair it might be the general population of Red Wings fans turn into idiots when goaltending is the main talk, more often than not.

Goaltending is a hot topic among most fanbases.. go into a Rangers forum and you'll find threads about how Lundqvist (.920 SV%, 2.50GAA) has to step his game up and I'm sure Vancouver fans were going crazy earlier in the season when Luongo was struggling.

Just be happy we don't have to deal with Vesa Toskala.

[gcom007 1,465]

With this depleted lineup, we do need our goalies to stand on their heads.

Especially in these games against Chicago. We can't outscore too many teams right now so the goalies will have to be better than they have before.

We may be depleted on paper, but I think this teams better on the ice than when they were healthy on paper. Not that I don't want others back, but the only guys I "absolutely must" have back once healthy are Kronwall and Franzen. I'm not convinced we won't have chemistry/balance issues again once everyone's healthy. Remember October?

Anyways, bottom line, if our goalies can keep it to 2-3 goals a game, we stand a chance to win every night. This team is learning to score again. Our biggest scoring issues came after Kronwall went down and I think we have since adjusted for the change. It'll help to get guys like him and Franzen back as they create serious offense every night, but we can still score 3-4 goals a game even without Z. No doubt about it.

[Guest Crymson]

...I think Howard was the one who lost the game tonight...am I right or not?

By George, you're right! He's terrible! Put him on waivers! No---that's not harsh enough! Burn his equipment and whip him naked through the streets!

[Pucks 66]

Our future goaltending looks a lot better than our past.

[Motown4013 350]

...I think Howard was the one who lost the game tonight...am I right or not?

You're kidding right?

[deetroit dario 27]

...I think Howard was the one who lost the game tonight...am I right or not?

2002-era hasek would've lost this game, if he had last night's "stop and smell the daisies" defense in front of him...

and OP...i couldn't agree with you more. though i beg you not post any more of these accuracies, because they somehow turn into prophecy!

[GMRwings1983 8,804]

In his interview, Babcock said that he felt we needed a great effort in net because he knew the ice would be tilted a lot.

Although he didn't say it, he looked unhappy with Ozzie's s***ty effort.

That third goal looked to break the team's spirit. Weak s*** by Ozzie.

[gcom007 1,465]

Topping, in defense of Jimmy Howard's career, as it now seems more relevant than ever. I'm all for a change if he can't do it in game 4, but to give up on the guy's CAREER at this point would be ludicrous.

ROOKIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ROOKIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ROOKIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

One more time...

ROOKIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm not knocking, just saying...

[Drake_Marcus 890]

Topping, in defense of Jimmy Howard's career, as it now seems more relevant than ever. I'm all for a change if he can't do it in game 4, but to give up on the guy's CAREER at this point would be ludicrous.

ROOKIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ROOKIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ROOKIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

One more time...

ROOKIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm not knocking, just saying...

Exactly. Anyone remember how Ozzie's playoff career started out? And he's a guy who will be remembered for clutch playoff goaltending at the end of his career.

[miksteri 55]

Too bad Wings didnt try to get Jussi Rynnäs, a finnish goalie who had an awesome season in the finnish league. One more top notch finn coming to NHL. Just not to Wings, dammit.

[zettie85 106]

Playing great in the Finnish pro ranks doesn't always translate into playing great in the NHL.

I hope that's a Leino joke.

[crotty99 302]

Sure Howie let in a soft back breaking goal, but I think your all overlooking the fact that he was the only one man enough to step up to Doan and take him down

[Wings_Dynasty 267]

I have a word about the goaltending: F%#K!

[Finnish Wing 110]

"The better goaltender always wins the game."

That's a quote from a famous Finnish hockey coach and a former player Juhani "Sun King" Tamminen. I don't know what that exactly means, but I think good goaltending helps.

[Finnish Wing 110]

Playing great in the Finnish pro ranks doesn't always translate into playing great in the NHL.

Playing great in any league never translates into playing good in some other league until you do it. Rynnas is the next Pekka Rinne. The guy is huge and kinda late bloomer as well.