A Goon lineup is my christmas wish this yea.

[redwings604 0]

A number of teams are taking liberties with big hits this season, if they get on a losing streak. Understandable the wings are decimated by injury, Lidstrom is playing alot more minutes hope he doesnt the next one that goes down. My wish is red wings to send a message to keep opponents honest. Sometimes you gotta show toughness clean hit or not.

[Guest micah]

I don't know if teams are taking more libertie through big hits thi year than in previous years.

I do agree with you that sometime a fight i an appropriate reaction to a big, clean hit. It ha always been this way. If you plastered a young Gretzky, clean or not, you should expext retaliation. If you embarass Howe with a big, clean hit, expect him to buttend you in the teeth later on.

The instigator rule si responsible for there being less (not more) fights after big hit these days. You simply cannot force a guy who doesn't want to fight into a fight anymore without hurting your team in the way enforcers of old did. The game was better, more honest, back when you could wail away on any player on not get worse than 5, which your opponent also got if he made any effort to defend himself. If you can't handle yourself in a fight, don't throw your body into another man's body.

I would love to see the instigator removed. That, combined with the increased pace of today's game would really be a great product to see.

[Broken 16 381]

So lets negate all the progress made this season, switch gears and f*** the entire team chemistry up. Stellar plan.

[puckbags 863]

A number of teams are taking liberties with big hits this season, if they get on a losing streak. Understandable the wings are decimated by injury, Lidstrom is playing alot more minutes hope he doesnt the next one that goes down. My wish is red wings to send a message to keep opponents honest. Sometimes you gotta show toughness clean hit or not.

Your originality amazes me, its not as if this topic hasn't been brought up 477 times in the last 8 days. Cool story bro !

[Doc Holliday 1,888]

What a new and interesting thread!

Also I don't care if there are goons in the lineup provided they don't do staged bulls*** fights like May was involved in last game. Completely worthless fight.

[BuckeyeWingsfan80 209]

I mean we've NEVER seen this thread (or comments like mine) before.....

Seriously, this team is wading through the troubled waters of an injury bug I've never seen a team go through before (not the number of injuries, but the injuries to seemingly all the big guns), so let's f*** that up and bring in guys like Jody Shelley and Steve Ott....that'll make the Wings SO much better.

Not.

[uk_redwing 495]

Also I don't care if there are goons in the lineup provided they don't do staged bulls*** fights like May was involved in last game. Completely worthless fight.

So you would say no to May v Barch round 7?

[Doc Holliday 1,888]

So you would say no to May v Barch round 7?

No.

That has history. They are number one.

[uk_redwing 495]

No.

That has history. They are number one.

Good. Because Round 6 should be tonight. I forget how many fights they've had.

At least I'll know you'll be ok for round 7

[WorkingOvertime 536]

What a new and interesting thread!

Also I don't care if there are goons in the lineup provided they don't do staged bulls*** fights like May was involved in last game. Completely worthless fight.

Figths like that serve some purpose (momentum, retribution for earlier cheap-shots), but I think that spontaneous fights have a much greater impact on a game. The Wings' problem is they have only had a pure 4th line enforcer the past few years (except for Lilja). I'd like to see the Wings pick up someone like Carcillo, Rupp, Asham, etc that can play third line minutes and stand up for their teammates when needed.

[Guest micah]

What a new and interesting thread!

Also I don't care if there are goons in the lineup provided they don't do staged bulls*** fights like May was involved in last game. Completely worthless fight.

If you think staged fights are worthless then you simply do not understand hockey fighting. If a toughguy is to be a deterant (as Babs says May has been, succesfully) that guy must demonstrate that he is willing and able to fight other big strong guys. Franzen (when healthy) i not a deterant, despite the fact that he is a pretty big guy. Why does nobody give a second thought to running our goalie when Fran is on the ice? Because he has demonstrated that he cannot and will not fight. The only way to succeed a an enforcer is to fight tough guys often and hold your own. There have been *very* few feared men who didn't fight much. Howe was one. Instead of fighting, he gooned it up. That i an option for men who cannot or will not fight, but most fans don't have the stomach for it these days.

Edited December 19, 2009 by micah

[GMRwings1983 8,804]

Great thread.

Dallas has a bunch of soft euros on their team, so it's time for our North American boys to start running those pansies left and right.

[thedisappearer 291]

No... wait...

[thedatsyukian 7]

Hire Kocur back and lets do some ass kicking. We'll have the fight capades, what could be better?

[Broken 16 381]

Hire Kocur back and lets do some ass kicking. We'll have the fight capades, what could be better?

A hot needle in my retina.

[Doc Holliday 1,888]

If you think staged fights are worthless then you simply do not understand hockey fighting. If a toughguy is to be a deterant (as Babs says May has been, succesfully) that guy must demonstrate that he is willing and able to fight other big strong guys.

So a guy like Corey Perry should be deterred because May is fighting one of the other team's tough guys?

Franzen (when healthy) i not a deterant, despite the fact that he is a pretty big guy. Why does nobody give a second thought to running our goalie when Fran is on the ice?

How many people have ran Detroit's goaltender when Franzen is on the ice in relation to when Brad May is on the ice? Do you have any statistics to bring to the table?

Because he has demonstrated that he cannot and will not fight. The only way to succeed a an enforcer is to fight tough guys often and hold your own.

So the deterrent is having the fourth line guys fight other fourth line guys. Okay. I guess Detroit got some momentum against Tampa with that fight? Or did Tampa? Or maybe it was equal momentum?

There is a difference between telling some random fourth liner "hey wanna go?" during a game and getting into a bout with a guy who ran your player or is giving you cheap shots. Sure maybe even if your team is down and you want to stick up for yourself. Not in a tie game in the first ******* period.

[newfy 695]

So a guy like Corey Perry should be deterred because May is fighting one of the other team's tough guys?

How many people have ran Detroit's goaltender when Franzen is on the ice in relation to when Brad May is on the ice? Do you have any statistics to bring to the table?

So the deterrent is having the fourth line guys fight other fourth line guys. Okay. I guess Detroit got some momentum against Tampa with that fight? Or did Tampa? Or maybe it was equal momentum?

There is a difference between telling some random fourth liner "hey wanna go?" during a game and getting into a bout with a guy who ran your player or is giving you cheap shots. Sure maybe even if your team is down and you want to stick up for yourself. Not in a tie game in the first ******* period.

In a hockey dressing room theres always one guy in the room who is looked up to as the toughest guy and the protector. If that guy fights off a face off and gets beat down by another teams tough guy that can crush another team. I know in my hockey thats sure how it works and if your tough guy gets beat up you lose a sense of security out there.

[Zion 93]

I mean we've NEVER seen this thread (or comments like mine) before.....

Seriously, this team is wading through the troubled waters of an injury bug I've never seen a team go through before (not the number of injuries, but the injuries to seemingly all the big guns), so let's f*** that up and bring in guys like Jody Shelley and Steve Ott....that'll make the Wings SO much better.

Not.

How would that improve the Wings in the shootout?

[Doc Holliday 1,888]

In a hockey dressing room theres always one guy in the room who is looked up to as the toughest guy and the protector. If that guy fights off a face off and gets beat down by another teams tough guy that can crush another team. I know in my hockey thats sure how it works and if your tough guy gets beat up you lose a sense of security out there.

Why don't you ask Max Talbot about him getting beatdown by Carcillo?

Edited December 19, 2009 by Doc Holliday

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

Why don't you ask Max Talbot about him getting beatdown by Carcillo?

Talbot wasnt there tough guy. He didnt fight, he hit and worked hard, but he was a puss for the most part. He knew Carcillo wanted someone and manned up, took a beating and his team saw that and came back in that game to show Philly they werent to be messed with. Had it been Godard getting his suck-hole smashed, it likely would've been a different story.

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

Detroit has never been a goon team in recent years. Trying to change them into that when they are fighting for a playoff spot is not a wise idea.

[uk_redwing 495]

GOON IT UP BOYS!!

Let Newbury loose. Sign up Avery and Downie. Lets get this thing started!

[Guest micah]

So a guy like Corey Perry should be deterred because May is fighting one of the other team's tough guys?

Sometimes, yes. Babs agrees with me.

How many people have ran Detroit's goaltender when Franzen is on the ice in relation to when Brad May is on the ice? Do you have any statistics to bring to the table?

7/1.

So the deterrent is having the fourth line guys fight other fourth line guys. Okay. I guess Detroit got some momentum against Tampa with that fight? Or did Tampa? Or maybe it was equal momentum?

No, the deterant is your tough guy who proves repeatedly that he is willing and able to fight the toughest guys in the league. Because he's proven that, other players should have no doubt that he will fight them if the cause arrises.

There is a difference between telling some random fourth liner "hey wanna go?" during a game and getting into a bout with a guy who ran your player or is giving you cheap shots. Sure maybe even if your team is down and you want to stick up for yourself. Not in a tie game in the first ******* period.

(sigh) Reread my post. I thought I made the reasons for "pointless" fights perfectly clear. If you're gonna be feared as a fighter, you gotta fight. If fighting tough guys "for no reson" does thge trick, you should expect to have to enforce less. Why fight in retaliation when you can fight before some idiot decides to hack away at one of your sstar players? Enforcers do not just exist for retribution, their primary purpose, as Babs understands, is to prevent cheapshots. If you don't have a rep as a guy who will go anywhere anytime, you're not going to be as succesful in that role.

[GMRwings1983 8,804]

Everytime May fights, he makes the soft euros on this team that much tougher.

If not for May, we'd probably be dead last in the West right now.

[esteef 2,679]