Osgood v Babcock round 2

[Guest Howard He Do It?!]

He Still puts Lebda out there.... Leino still plays......They Suck!!! Next ?

Ive too have heard that BAB is a COCK (BABCOCK)

It's ok to vent your frustrations let it out .... but unless you have played for the Wings under the current coach.. I see no reason that someone here might have a source that doesnt want to dis-close. that should be respected... But talking to you about respect is a lost cause.

just because YOU don't know ALL the dirt does not make it any less truth full.

should give people the benefit of the doubt. No one has a reason to lie....(you maybe)

Do you have any evidence to say that member is wrong...... Hmm? still waiting..........

Yes Osgood is popular here. among those who respect what he has done for this organization. (you not being one of them) Personally I could give a s*** less how long you have watched because those that have watched longer compare him to past goalies on the team. Its called a reference..

That's a flat out lie. Now you are making gross accusations. I respect greatly what Ozzie has done for this team and readily admit that the history of this team is forever different had it not been for Ozzie. However, it has to be recognized that Ozzie's skills will inevitably decline and it must be recognized when they do. Ozzie cannot be the goaltender forever ehre in Detroit.

The rest of your post is absolutely ridiculous and again full of factual inaccuracies and horrendous comparisons.

[Guest Howard He Do It?!]

Oh I'm sure he's not. I'm sure there's been alot of people unhappy with Babcock at one point. Just like about 95% of the team hated Scotty when he came here, and how a bunch of players still hated him all throughout his time here (Aaron Ward).

I'm just saying I don't think you can make Babcock into a douchebag out of that. Like I said, we see this all throughout hockey with virtually every different coach. You'll see a group of players offer nothing but praise and another group that just slams him in the press. One coach isn't going to be either loved or hated by everyone in that locker room.

Ozzie is frustrated and I don't blame him. He' a proven veteran who's proven and accomplished so much and all of a sudden he's riding in bunch in favor of the red-hot but unproven rookie. I'm sure Ozzie feels slighted. But in the end, Babs is just doing what he feels is best for the team.

And in case no one has noticed Babcock has kept this team in the hunt despite the massive amount of injuries suffered early on. But I guess according to some that the coach doesn't really matter and that babcock is just plain terrible. It's funny how some can so openly hate on Babcock but get offended so easily when someone says something bad about Ozzie. Talk about a hair trigger.

Edited January 21, 2010 by Howard He Do It?!

[Guest Howard He Do It?!]

Hey everybody! Ask around, this guy said that about this other guy and then I heard it from a guy who knows a guy. Great source! Take it to the bank!

[KonstantAdvisor 4]

Ozzie puts the pressure on himself by going to the media with his comments. If he doesn't criticize Bab's we aren't talking about him right now. He made himself the flavour of the month.

That's true. Osgood knows that Jimmy is hot right now, too.

Osgood is acting like an unprofessional child. I can't believe he's still going off of that previous success to justify his current play.

He's really starting to piss me off with these comments.

He is keeping Babcock honest. Fans who haven't missed his performances know that Osgood has done fine. Twelve straight starts for a rookie goaltender is not very normal. We are not talking Patrick Lalime-type numbers, either. Howard could win the Calder, but he is also now on pace for more complete games than Patrick Roy played in his first five years. There is optimism but there is also benching the team you know you have and letting it get cold.

The team doesn't need this kind of distraction. If you win games you play. If you compete you play. I'm not so sure why Osgood thinks he can ride on laurels.

I agree it is a bit of a distraction, but Osgood really hasn't being given a chance to compete the past month. Howard was doing well, but Osgood was being actively denied starts, it appears, because the Wings got blown out against the NYI at the end of a long road trip and it was Howards nth start in a row. Osgood was doing fine early in the season but then saw his playtime drop after the Chicago game where Babcock made comments to the press about Osgood's weak play.

Which was a complete joke because Ozzie played awesome that game, could have easily been 0-7, had maybe one weak goal, while the Wings sleepwalked through the game and barely got a shot on net.

You might not find it a big deal or controversial, but a lot of other people do. It's not everyday a Red Wings player speaks out to the press in such a negative way like Ozzie has. Ozzie had the excuse train rolling before the game and after the game.

I just don't get why you are piling on the "run Ozzie out of Detroit" train. Is Chris Osgood a career backup who doesn't deserve a start even one out of six games? No. Even hot rookies get cold and Babcock letting the go-to guy get cold seems pretty bone-headed to me. Osgood wants Howard to win and we all appreciate that Jimmy Howard is doing great.

I can't wait for Howard to tire out... when he's used up this year, I can see the threads now.. "Howard played too much..." or "Babcock burned out Howard"

Everything else you said was fine. This is dumb. Babcock just needs to know that Osgood has a point about not giving him starts often enough. I want Howard to do great every game.

On a more optimistic note... perhaps its all a grand plan to keep the focus off Howard. Osgood and Babcock are probably giggling as they come up with Osgood's next quote.

I don't agree with what you said about Osgood sucking. You are probably right about this and it's all a head game for the opposition.

The major difference I've noticed in this whole situation is the look of the team on the ice... Simply put the team seems to play well and play with confidence with Howard in goal and they seem to play scared and tentative with Osgood in net. Take a close (and honest) look at the body language next time you watch a game.

Also, if the wings make the playoffs it will take a meltdown by Howard and a resurgence by Osgood to dislodge Howard as the starter.

Detroit was controlling the zone most of the last game. They are feeling stronger, no matter which goaltender is behind them now, but there is still some weakness and inconsistency on occasion. I notice the exact opposite body language, though. There is more pinching and less body checking, more pretty passing and more risky plays trying to force shots when there aren't scoring chances. The stats bear it out too...Osgood will claim the loss at 1-3 and the Wings will have 40 SOG. When they play 'simple' they seem to spend a lot more time in the defensive zone pounding forwards on the boards...then we get these amazing forward passes and much better scoring chances with fewer shots.

Tonight the Wings were doing the latter in front of Osgood, for the most part. They carried the play to the Caps and for a little bit during the second the Wings really wore them down and got some amazing scoring chances. The Wings could easily take the Kings' 8th spot if they play at that level and avoid that 60 seconds of miscues for the next two games.

[Guest Howard He Do It?!]

I just don't get why you are piling on the "run Ozzie out of Detroit" train. Is Chris Osgood a career backup who doesn't deserve a start even one out of six games? No. Even hot rookies get cold and Babcock letting the go-to guy get cold seems pretty bone-headed to me. Osgood wants Howard to win and we all appreciate that Jimmy Howard is doing great.

Not once did I say I want Ozzie out. If Ozzie is being punished then there is a simple solution on how to end that punishment. Ozzie should keep his mouth shut and play out of his mind when given the chance.

Hot rookies do get cold, but that hasn't happened with Howard yet. Ozzie's biggest problem this year has been Jimmy Howard and Ozzie needs to realize that his role for the team is changing. Many players have gone through role changes while playing for the Wings, most notably Yzerman and have embraced that change for the betterment of the team.

[KonstantAdvisor 4]

I respect greatly what Ozzie has done for this team and readily admit that the history of this team is forever different had it not been for Ozzie. However, it has to be recognized that Ozzie's skills will inevitably decline and it must be recognized when they do. Ozzie cannot be the goaltender forever ehre in Detroit.

Your other posts could have fooled me.

Ozzie should keep his mouth shut and play out of his mind when given the chance.

Many players have gone through role changes while playing for the Wings, most notably Yzerman and have embraced that change for the betterment of the team.

Ozzie is not a rookie and he hasn't said anything even close to inflammatory. The people on this board have, though. Osgood was not 'whining' and Osgood's fans have not been demanding he be the goaltender forever. The people who need to shut the hell up probably didn't see the game where Babcock made the comments to the press which has prompted them to keep interviewing Osgood. The fact that Osgood has a role while he is on the bench now (with the press?) doesn't excuse the petty and basically unforgivable rudeness displayed by Wings fans on this forum.

It really looks like some of you are just Chicago or Colorado fans trying to turn this thread into a food fight.

[Guest Howard He Do It?!]

Your other posts could have fooled me.

Ozzie is not a rookie and he hasn't said anything even close to inflammatory. The people on this board have, though. Osgood was not 'whining' and Osgood's fans have not been demanding he be the goaltender forever. The people who need to shut the hell up probably didn't see the game where Babcock made the comments to the press which has prompted them to keep interviewing Osgood. The fact that Osgood has a role while he is on the bench now (with the press?) doesn't excuse the petty and basically unforgivable rudeness displayed by Wings fans on this forum.

It really looks like some of you are just Chicago or Colorado fans trying to turn this thread into a food fight.

So because I say Ozzie's skills have to decline, which they do, and that he cannot be the goaltender forever, which is true, that this means I want him out of town? That makes absolutely no sense.

Yzerman wasn't a rookie either when he was asked to become a two-way player.

You make it sound like all of this is new. Ozzie has always been a hot topic and always will. Some people hate him and some people love him. Just because you disagree with some of the sentiment on the forum doesn't make it wrong. What you perceive as "rude" and "petty" others view as true.

I'm sorry that every fan cannot be a goodie two shoes like you. Why not tell us how a proper fan (short for FANATIC) should act since you seem to be the ultimate judge of that.

[zettie85 106]

Hey everybody! Ask around, this guy said that about this other guy and then I heard it from a guy who knows a guy. Great source! Take it to the bank!

You should start a thread about it. Maybe you'll find out who you are actually supposed to ask. haha

[ltgator333 3]

[/b]

I agree. The whole interview. Couldn't hurt one way or another.

Me three. Because I seriously doubt, after having read the full article again, that this is really anything more than Ozzy going 'hey, being off for a month as a goaltender is bad'. And if you actually read the dang thing, he wasn't just talking about himself. Generally, it's not such a good thing and that fact is hard to debate provided you know what you're talking about.

The whole deal with Babcock vs veteran players deal, I could totally see that. It happens in the workplace when you have employees that pre-date the current boss- they're not 'his/her people' and sometimes they're quick to question a boss that does something that they've known to not be a good idea in the past- I've done it.

To me that's all this whole deal boils down to, and really this thread (as I thought it would on page 11) has just morphed into an off topic Ozzy hate/defend $hitstorm. I still do not understand why some people dislike him to the point of going out of their way to villainize the one successful goaltender that this franchise has brought from Joe (nobody) to pro in the last two decades.

[KonstantAdvisor 4]

You make it sound like all of this is new. Ozzie has always been a hot topic and always will. Some people hate him and some people love him. Just because you disagree with some of the sentiment on the forum doesn't make it wrong. What you perceive as "rude" and "petty" others view as true.

I'm sorry that every fan cannot be a goodie two shoes like you. Why not tell us how a proper fan (short for FANATIC) should act since you seem to be the ultimate judge of that.

People are stating on this forum that Ozzie shouldn't have made comments in public. Like they know better and the precedent of all the times they've heard Roenick or some other guy run his mouth. I don't hear Babcock saying he (Osgood) made the wrong call, but people on this forum are saying sit him another month, etc, based on his comments and not based on his play between the pipes. Which has not been nearly as bad as you have made it out to be, either.

Like I said, food fight. Who is a goodie two shoes? You're just covered in special sauce right now.

[RedFX 48]

And in case no one has noticed Babcock has kept this team in the hunt despite the massive amount of injuries suffered early on. But I guess according to some that the coach doesn't really matter and that babcock is just plain terrible. It's funny how some can so openly hate on Babcock but get offended so easily when someone says something bad about Ozzie. Talk about a hair trigger.

Indeed. It seems that because a player has a long history with a team, that player feels like he's owed something. And maybe to an extent they are. But in this case, when the season is on the line, Babs needs to do whatever it takes to win. And despite everything thats gone on this season, I'm still convinced Babs is doing everything in his power to put us in a position to do that

[RedFX 48]

People are stating on this forum that Ozzie shouldn't have made comments in public. Like they know better and the precedent of all the times they've heard Roenick or some other guy run his mouth. I don't hear Babcock saying he (Osgood) made the wrong call, but people on this forum are saying sit him another month, etc, based on his comments and not based on his play between the pipes. Which has not been nearly as bad as you have made it out to be, either.

Like I said, food fight. Who is a goodie two shoes? You're just covered in special sauce right now.

I don't think anyone on here has implied that, and if they did they would be stupid. If he sits a month, its because Babs feels Jimmy Howard gives us the best chance to win the hockey game. NO REASON OTHER THAN THAT. This is not a power struggle. This is not a personal vendetta against a player. This is a business move. And I think some people on here forget that.

Should Ozzie have said anything? His frustration is perfectly understandable, and if I were him I wouldn't be too happy either. It is a distraction whichever way you look at it.

[Hockeytown_Ryan 122]

That's a flat out lie. Now you are making gross accusations. I respect greatly what Ozzie has done for this team and readily admit that the history of this team is forever different had it not been for Ozzie. However, it has to be recognized that Ozzie's skills will inevitably decline and it must be recognized when they do. Ozzie cannot be the goaltender forever ehre in Detroit.

The rest of your post is absolutely ridiculous and again full of factual inaccuracies and horrendous comparisons.

If you respect Osgood you have a real FUNNY way of showing it... And no..You are not respecting other members here by calling them Liars when #1 You don't know them..or who they know....

#2 Just because YOU didnt hear it first ??? or full of factual inaccuracies ????

Yes I recognize Osgood is not the player he used to be and I have said that a couple times... That does not mean he gets booted out of hockey on the drop of a hat. You dont like Osgood.. We get it!

And in case no one has noticed Babcock has kept this team in the hunt despite the massive amount of injuries suffered early on. But I guess according to some that the coach doesn't really matter and that babcock is just plain terrible. It's funny how some can so openly hate on Babcock but get offended so easily when someone says something bad about Ozzie. Talk about a hair trigger.

Who has the hair trigger?? You went off the minute the Babcock discussion started... calling people liars and claiming he said she said. well guess what sir....Noone has to explain to you WHO we know and HOW we know and WHAT we know and from who. It's up to you to decide what you take with a grain of salt. But you are in NO position to call people out for any reason.

I know reasons behind alot of playoff locker room talk and reason why a lot of things were done.... Do I have to tell you who I heard it from and what I heard??? Hell no!!!!! Its none of your business..... Not out here in the open anyway...

been a member a whole 6 days and already calling people fabricators and liars..... Welcome to LGW.....

[Guest Howard He Do It?!]

If you respect Osgood you have a real FUNNY way of showing it... And no..You are not respecting other members here by calling them Liars when #1 You don't know them..or who they know....

#2 Just because YOU didnt hear it first ??? or full of factual inaccuracies ????

Yes I recognize Osgood is not the player he used to be and I have said that a couple times... That does not mean he gets booted out of hockey on the drop of a hat. You dont like Osgood.. We get it!

Who has the hair trigger?? You went off the minute the Babcock discussion started... calling people liars and claiming he said she said. well guess what sir....Noone has to explain to you WHO we know and HOW we know and WHAT we know and from who. It's up to you to decide what you take with a grain of salt. But you are in NO position to call people out for any reason.

I know reasons behind alot of playoff locker room talk and reason why a lot of things were done.... Do I have to tell you who I heard it from and what I heard??? Hell no!!!!! Its none of your business..... Not out here in the open anyway...

been a member a whole 6 days and already calling people fabricators and liars..... Welcome to LGW.....

What are you, my mother? Grow up. No one cares what imaginary person you know. You must be an extremely tolerant person. This thread is dead.

Edited January 22, 2010 by Howard He Do It?!

[Hockeytown_Ryan 122]

What are you, my mother? Grow up. No one cares what imaginary person you know. You must be an extremely tolerant person. This thread is dead.

so is your Rep....

[Guest Howard He Do It?!]

so is your Rep....

Whatever makes you sleep at night. Your displaced hatred does not affect my standing on this forum.

[Hockeytown_Ryan 122]

Whatever makes you sleep at night. Your displaced hatred does not affect my standing on this forum.

ditto but who do i hate?

Edited January 22, 2010 by Hockeytown_Ryan

[Guest Howard He Do It?!]

ditto but who do i hate?

Seeing as you can no longer talk about hockey, I'm going to be the bigger man and end this. Drag it on if you like, but you will be talking to yourself.

[Vladifan 680]

This thread is dead.

Promises, promises. Not a chance. Ain't gonna happen. Even if this one dies - which it won't because there will forever be posters who have to have the last word - if this one doesn't go on ad infinitum, a new one will start up approximately 30 seconds after tonight's game. I wouldn't be a mod on this board for all the pucks in Pittsburgh.

Like anyone 's mind is going to be changed on the question of how s***ty/wondrous our goalies are. Especially when labels, questioning of motives and insults come into the fray. It only foments the issue more, nothing at all gets accomplished and it is indeed getting sickening.

Now someone will no doubt respond with something like, "Well don't read it if you don't like it", or words to that effect.

Guess what. Over and out.

[Hockeytown_Ryan 122]

Seeing as you can no longer talk about hockey, I'm going to be the bigger man and end this. Drag it on if you like, but you will be talking to yourself.

[gcom007 1,465]

And in case no one has noticed Babcock has kept this team in the hunt despite the massive amount of injuries suffered early on. But I guess according to some that the coach doesn't really matter and that babcock is just plain terrible. It's funny how some can so openly hate on Babcock but get offended so easily when someone says something bad about Ozzie. Talk about a hair trigger.

For the record, I've been quite critical of Babcock's handling of the goaltending since his first season here, however, I've never suggested that he's a horrible coach. I think he's great in almost every way and there's no other guy I'd want coaching the Wings. But I think he absolutely struggles with the goaltending.

For me, it goes right back to Manny Legace which was one of the most epically stupid management/coaching decisions I've witnessed with this team. I was not one of the bandwagon people cheering Legace along all year. I said all along that it was a terrible mistake and that we'd be sorry and in the end, we were.

I didn't like the way the Hasek situation went in 2007, not in that Hasek shouldn't have started and played poorly throughout at all, but he wasn't playing at the same level he once did and it was obvious to me at least that it was a volatile situation. I wasn't convinced then and I'm more convinced now that Babcock's lack of "tact" perhaps in dealing with guys didn't have something to do with Hasek's struggles in a must-win game 6. We had everything going against us that year and I'm not blaming the loss on him or Hasek at all when it all shakes down, but I still think the Hasek situation could've been stabilized better.

He did fairly well in 2008 with Hasek struggling and Osgood excelling. I don't blame him for going with Hasek in the playoffs, and it appeared he did so with the right idea of a "short leash" given Hasek's age and struggles. He moved to Osgood and rode him out to a Cup.

Last year, I've already expressed how I feel. I think he pushed a lot of wrong buttons after Osgood got off to a slow start which perpetuated the problem. I'm not letting Osgood off the hook on it, but in the end, it wasn't Babcock who solved it. It was Holland who stepped in, took over and fixed the problem. If left to Babcock's methods and decisions, Conklin likely would have started and not to knock him, but I think it's highly unlikely that he would've had the same Conn Smythe-worthy performance Osgood did in practically carrying us through huge injuries to Game 7 of the Cup Finals.

And this year, I don't think he's doing Osgood or Howard right. I think Howard should be starting more often so long as he keeps playing like this, but Osgood needs more starts. Babcock also needs to avoid sending mixed messages in the press which he has absolutely done thus far this season. As much as I do think Osgood should keep his mouth shut, I think he's reacting to Babcock who has said some things in the press he probably shouldn't as well while keeping starts incredibly unbalanced if Osgood was just a lowly career-backup let alone a goalie on the cusp of 400 wins with 3 Cup rings.

That's what it boils down to for me. Like I said, I like Babcock a lot as a coach, but with the goaltending, from day one, he's frustrated me. The Hasek years were mostly fine to be fair (though it's tough to screw up a 1-2 punch of Osgood and Hasek...), but the Legace year and these last two years frustrate me. Nothing will ever compare to the Legace year, as that still just makes my blood boil, but to think of what could've happened last year and how it's going this year...it's frustrating and I don't like it at all.

And call me radical or ridiculous, but I haven't been wrong about a goaltending situation since Babcock's been here. Everything I've said through the season has come true in the end. I don't spew nonsense to spew nonsense. You may not agree, but I'm just saying, I've got a good track record on this matter...

Legace: MISTAKE!!! MISTAKE!!! MISTAKE!!!

'07 Hasek: Volatile situation, showing signs of age and inconsistency, still can be great, but not the safe bet he once was...

'08 Hasek - Showing signs of age big time, inconsistent, you could start Osgood, but sure, start Hasek, he's a legend, but keep him on a short leash considering All Star, two-time Cup winner Osgood is the backup, and I even said throughout the second half that I wouldn't be surprised at all to see Osgood finish things for us down the stretch.

'09 Osgood: "he'll be fine in the playoffs, quote me on it in June..." I never denied his regular season struggles, but I never wrote him off for a second.

[Opie 308]

3/4 of this board were clambering for Legace, so Babs is not the only one who thought he was ready. I find it funny now that people blame him for playing Legace.

And Lebda, yeah because Babs has sooooooooo many other options other than Lebda or Meech as the 6th. This place makes me laugh!

[Outsider 42]

3/4 of this board were clambering for Legace, so Babs is not the only one who thought he was ready. I find it funny now that people blame him for playing Legace.

Not for nothing, but:

The same ones who were clamoring for Legace in 2005-2006, those who thought he was "ready", are the very same people who were clamoring for Conklin last year, because they thought HE was "ready". They're the same ones who are clamoring for Howard THIS year, because they're convinced that HE is "ready". And in every one of those scenarios, it was the same attitude: Get RID of Osgood. He's obviously not needed. Legace/Conklin/Howard is definitely better, and Osgood is "done". Waive/trade/demote him down to Grand Rapids. Let the new Osgoodless era in Detroit begin! Huzzah!

Also, oddly enough:

Those few who were shouting out from the rooftops against turning it all over to Legace, and to Conklin, those who were arguing that Osgood was FAR from done, and that the Wings would need him, and that he would prove all of the doubters and haters wrong.....again.....

Are the same few who are preaching patience and caution in handing it all over to Howard now, (prematurely), after a whopping THIRTYISH Games, while tossing the grizzled, Cup Winning veteran to the side like a pair of dirty socks.

Coincidence?

Not.

[gcom007 1,465]

3/4 of this board were clambering for Legace, so Babs is not the only one who thought he was ready. I find it funny now that people blame him for playing Legace.

And Lebda, yeah because Babs has sooooooooo many other options other than Lebda or Meech as the 6th. This place makes me laugh!

Yes, that sounds about right.

Conveniently, 3/4 (probably more...) of this board has been wrong as well.

Like I said, I pitched a fit about Legace in October. I was never a member of the 3/4 who said he was ready.

I was one of the one's people like you ripped on for not agreeing with you.

And in the end, I was right. Just like every other year.

Did you ever stop to think that those of us who aren't so quick to celebrate career-backups, 43 year olds and rookies might actually be on to something???

Maybe you should read that last sentence again...considering 3/4 of you have been wrong every year while some of us keep getting it right every year.........

[Outsider 42]

Yes, that sounds about right.

Conveniently, 3/4 (probably more...) of this board has been wrong as well.

Like I said, I pitched a fit about Legace in October. I was never a member of the 3/4 who said he was ready.

I was one of the one's people like you ripped on for not agreeing with you.

And in the end, I was right. Just like every other year.

Did you ever stop to think that those of us who aren't so quick to celebrate career-backups, 43 year olds and rookies might actually be on to something???

Maybe you should read that last sentence again...considering 3/4 of you have been wrong every year while some of us keep getting it right every year.........

LOL. Shhhhh......

You're obviously nothing more than an Osgood slappy, gcom. You're also quite obviously just butt hurt that Osgood has been replaced, permanently, again.