Osgood v Babcock round 2

[Broken 16 381]

He Still puts Lebda out there.... Leino still plays......They Suck!!! Next ?

Comparing a 6th defender and a 4th line forward to the goalie. Can you see what an awful comparison this is?

Ive too have heard that BAB is a COCK (BABCOCK)

Of course he is. He's a coach. See Dave Lewis...

Yes Osgood is popular here. among those who respect what he has done for this organization. (you not being one of them) Personally I could give a s*** less how long you have watched because those that have watched longer compare him to past goalies on the team. Its called a reference..

Pretty lame to accuse someone of not respecting what Osgood has done based on nothing more than his love not equaling yours. Why don't you share with us how past accolades equal points right now. Ozzie can lean on his past accolades when he's trying to score a free meal at Denny's in 25 years. Right now, they mean squat.

Edited January 21, 2010 by Broken 16

[eva unit zero 271]

He also has a nasty habit of lifting his stick when he goes down...

His form is piss poor. No sense denying it.

He didn't lift his stick on Backstrom's goal. The fact that Backstrom scored because he got to shoot from four feet out without any Wing giving him trouble because Stuart s*** his pants does not make it Ozzie giving up a soft goal. Yes, the goal should not have happened. But because Stuart should have played Backstrom tighter instead of allowing him to walk right in while the Caps were on the PP.

[Hockeytown_Ryan 119]

Comparing a 6th defender and a 4th line forward to the goalie. Can you see what an awful comparison this is?

Of course he is. He's a coach. See Dave Lewis...

Pretty lame to accuse someone of not respecting what Osgood has done based on nothing more than his love not equaling yours. Why don't you share with us how past accolades equal points right now. Ozzie can lean on his past accolades when he's trying to score a free meal at Denny's in 25 years. Right now, they mean squat.

But they still suck and cost us games with their play and yes since Lebda was Chelis partner.

Dave Lewis....?. He Sucked at life and continues to do so.... That was a horrible comparison ... on your part.

Where did I say he was better than Howard? Where in your warped view did I say that? Osgood has my respect because he was here for 3 Cups... and is among some of the top goalies that have played here.

I watched him start here and I have respect for him

because he isnt the Osgood of old doesnt mean you throw is ass to the curb like he meant nothing... You Might... But I don't . You will be right behind him asking for his autograph too won't you? ( at the Denny's) hoping to get in on that free meal.

[Outsider 42]

Cheli didn't get thrown under the bus. What did you want Babs to do? Keep putting Cheli out their to make big mistakes and cost the team games? Honoring loyalty can only go so far before it bites you in the ass.

Oh, and for the record?

Babcock keeps putting the trainwreck known as Brett Lebda out there. And before Eriksson's injury, kept throwing HIM out there despite all the boneheaded plays he was making. Hell....neither one have had their ice time so much as cut.

You wanna know the difference?

CHELI pre-dated Babcock. He was here, and built a history here, success here, LONG BEFORE Babs came to town. He's not one of "his" guys. Also, if Babs criticizes Lebs or Big Rig, what are they gonna do? They're KIDS! "Yes Coach!".

Babs tried to get up in Cheli's face, and Cheli LAUGHED in his face. That's because Christos Chelios was an NHL All Star, a runner up for the Calder, and a STANLEY CUP WINNER while Mike Babcock was trying to find a spot on any hockey Team that would take him. Chris Chelios is a first ballot, sure fire Hall of Famer, and one of the most respected Players ever to play the Game. Babcock treated him like he was s***. Cheli didn't like it, so he told Babs to f*** off. Babs answer? Fine. No ice time for you. Next? You're off the Team. Babs wins. Great victory for the Big Man.

He can get up in Lebda's face, and Lebs won't say s***. That's why Lebs is "okay" with Babs.

How long do YOU think it will be before all of the Good Will that the Wings have built up over the decades by treating their players with LOYALTY and RESPECT will evaporate once it gets around, (and it is.....believe me....it is), that Mike Babcock is a DICK to play for, and that he has no respect for his veterans - Veterans who are respected by their FELLOW PLAYERS, League wide - nor for anything they've accomplished in their careers, and that he's willing to throw even the most loyal, most dedicated Players under the bus?

[Statts 4]

Oh, and for all those who are whining about Osgood mouthing off, and that being a reflection on Osgood, rather than on Babcock:

"RUMOR" HAS IT, (ask around, kiddies.....ask those who "know"), that Yzerman couldn't stand Babs. He retired a year earlier than he intended to, because there was NO WAY he was going to tolerate another year under him. Period.

Ditto Shanny.

Babs "pushed" Cheli out, too.

Now it's Ozzie's turn.

I remember hearing this. I dont remember reading or hearing about Yzerman going to the media with his displeasure though.

I understand his frustration, but Osgood is going about it the wrong way. Especially with his latest comments which were way out of line IMO.

Edit: I wish there was a video of the interview so I could hear Ozzie's tone of voice and body language.

Edited January 21, 2010 by Statts

[GoWings1905 2,694]

I share the sentiment *exactly*!

which means trading our backup *Ozzie* in a package for a decent defenseman at the deadline.

we fans can harp all we want. all that matters is whether Babs will start him.

I don't think a "backup" goalie at age 37 will fetch a solid return in a trade. Besides, if Ozzie is as rotten as some people here claim, what team would want him? Babcock doesn't seem to grasp the situation well, but Ken Holland sure understands the importance of keeping Ozzie around.

This waive/trade Osgood banter is absurd. Who is our "backup" goalie then? Larsson? McCollum? That would be a wonderful idea to head to the playoffs with two goalies with a combined zero games of playoff experience.

Talk about an irrational reaction to the situation.

Edited January 21, 2010 by GoWings1905

[brett 1,029]

leino > ozzie in net

[Carman 387]

Oh, and for the record?

Babcock keeps putting the trainwreck known as Brett Lebda out there. And before Eriksson's injury, kept throwing HIM out there despite all the boneheaded plays he was making. Hell....neither one have had their ice time so much as cut.

You wanna know the difference?

CHELI pre-dated Babcock. He was here, and built a history here, success here, LONG BEFORE Babs came to town. He's not one of "his" guys. Also, if Babs criticizes Lebs or Big Rig, what are they gonna do? They're KIDS! "Yes Coach!".

Babs tried to get up in Cheli's face, and Cheli LAUGHED in his face. That's because Christos Chelios was an NHL All Star, a runner up for the Calder, and a STANLEY CUP WINNER while Mike Babcock was trying to find a spot on any hockey Team that would take him. Chris Chelios is a first ballot, sure fire Hall of Famer, and one of the most respected Players ever to play the Game. Babcock treated him like he was s***. Cheli didn't like it, so he told Babs to f*** off. Babs answer? Fine. No ice time for you. Next? You're off the Team. Babs wins. Great victory for the Big Man.

He can get up in Lebda's face, and Lebs won't say s***. That's why Lebs is "okay" with Babs.

How long do YOU think it will be before all of the Good Will that the Wings have built up over the decades by treating their players with LOYALTY and RESPECT will evaporate once it gets around, (and it is.....believe me....it is), that Mike Babcock is a DICK to play for, and that he has no respect for his veterans - Veterans who are respected by their FELLOW PLAYERS, League wide - nor for anything they've accomplished in their careers, and that he's willing to throw even the most loyal, most dedicated Players under the bus?

This is literally the most out there post I've seen in awhile. You seem to have a personal issue with Babcock. You cannot seriously believe Babcock brings personal feelings into his career that he is chancing a negative impact to his reputation/life into can you? Coaching is about winning games, not making friends. Babcock would have been long gone if he's been treating his players unfairly as much as you think.

[GoWings1905 2,694]

leino > ozzie in net

Way to contribute to the discussion.

Great comparision too of a fourth liner that can't skate to a goaltender nearing 400 wins.

[mackel 679]

The major difference I've noticed in this whole situation is the look of the team on the ice... Simply put the team seems to play well and play with confidence with Howard in goal and they seem to play scared and tentative with Osgood in net. Take a close (and honest) look at the body language next time you watch a game.

Also, if the wings make the playoffs it will take a meltdown by Howard and a resurgence by Osgood to dislodge Howard as the starter.

[Outsider 42]

I remember hearing this. I dont remember reading or hearing about Yzerman going to the media with his displeasure though.

Glad you remember it. Few seem to. Typical revisionist history.

As to the other? You can chalk that up to something very simple, Statts:

Yzerman was a God. Still is. Deservedly so. Stevie could do no wrong. As soon as he hoisted the Cup for the first time? He was untouchable. Again.....deservedly so.

Osgood? He can do NO RIGHT! Ever. No matter what he accomplishes, it's shat upon. Belittled. He's lucky. He's NEVER been any good. He wouldn't even BE here if he weren't so "cheap". He led his Team to the Stanley Cup Finals, and earned another Ring as a Starter, with TWO consecutive Smythe worthy performances. And now everyone is ready to throw him over for a rookie with FORTY GAMES under his belt. Last year it was a CAREER BACK UP who'll never be ANYTHING in this League, and "gave" the Red Wings one freakin' Season. Prior to that? Another career back up whom everyone with ANY kind of hockey knowledge KNEW wasn't cut out for the job.

(Well....everyone but the new Head Coach who insisted he was, that is.....).

Waive him. Trade him. Just get this "cancer" out of here.

He has been ***** SLAPPED his entire career, despite being one of the TEN MOST SUCCESSFUL goaltenders in NHL History. As his career is winding down, he's TIRED of being ***** slapped. This Season? He hasn't even had a fair shake! He's being punished for essentially gettting SICK at the wrong time.

I understand his frustration, but Osgood is going about it the wrong way. Especially with his latest comments which were way out of line IMO.

Edit: I wish there was a video of the interview so I could hear Ozzie's tone of voice and body language.

You and me, both. I'm betting that while it wasn't the smartest, most diplomatic thing to say, (though ONE HUNDRED PERCENT ACCURATE), it wasn't said in the way the print media makes it appear.

I'm betting it was rather like his off-handed comment about Bowman, back in the day, when he stated that he'd "given up" trying to figure out what Scotty wanted. That he'd be better off going outside and looking up at the clouds, because he'd have as much luck figuring out the clouds as he would figuring out William Scott Bowman.

[GoWings1905 2,694]

The major difference I've noticed in this whole situation is the look of the team on the ice... Simply put the team seems to play well and play with confidence with Howard in goal and they seem to play scared and tentative with Osgood in net. Take a close (and honest) look at the body language next time you watch a game.

Also, if the wings make the playoffs it will take a meltdown by Howard and a resurgence by Osgood to dislodge Howard as the starter.

The sample size is slightly skewed in favor of Howard there. The odds of the team looking better with Howard in goal are pretty likely when Ozzie has only played twice in a month.

The Red Wings looked pretty damn confident last night. They carried the play and I didn't sense any tentativeness until Bertuzzi took a stupid penalty.

[Outsider 42]

This is literally the most out there post I've seen in awhile. You seem to have a personal issue with Babcock. You cannot seriously believe Babcock brings personal feelings into his career that he is chancing a negative impact to his reputation/life into can you? Coaching is about winning games, not making friends. Babcock would have been long gone if he's been treating his players unfairly as much as you think.

Wait for it.

It's all rosy while you're Winning, Carman. Once the Winning tails off?

There were the rumors about his "guy" Sauer in Anaheim. And Mike Commodore. The rumors about Stevie. And Shanny. And Cheli. And have we forgotten Hudler?

[mackel 679]

The sample size is slightly skewed in favor of Howard there. The odds of the team looking better with Howard in goal are pretty likely when Ozzie has only played twice in a month.

The Red Wings looked pretty damn confident last night. They carried the play and I didn't sense any tentativeness until Bertuzzi took a stupid penalty.

No the sample is adequate, from the start of the season until now... some on here make it sound as if Osgood played with a Junior B team out there due to injuries and Howard had an all star team... My point is that under the same set of circumstances Howard has played better and earned the confidence of his team mates... while with Osgood in net the team looks as though they are waiting for the softy to go in.

[GoWings1905 2,694]

No the sample is adequate, from the start of the season until now... some on here make it sound as if Osgood played with a Junior B team out there due to injuries and Howard had an all star team... My point is that under the same set of circumstances Howard has played better and earned the confidence of his team mates... while with Osgood in net the team looks as though they are waiting for the softy to go in.

Ozzie must have been playing fine early on. Howard hardly got any starts until Ozzie got sick.

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

It's not really that hard to figure out.

Howard got his chance when Osgood was down or sick or whatever, he put together a run and it's hard to justify taking him out on a consistent basis.

Until Howard falters consistently/gets injured, Osgood isn't going to have much of a chance right now with the Wings fighting for points. They don't have the luxury of "waiting to see" if Osgood gets his game back for the regular season like last year.

It has nothing to do with treating Osgood like a buddy because he's been a team player or handling him with sensitivity gloves, and has everything to do with getting wins/points.

I like 'em both and want them both/the goaltending to succeed here.

If this makes me an ungreatful fan for what Osgood has done for this team, well, I'm sorry.

[RedFX 48]

Oh, and for the record?

Babcock keeps putting the trainwreck known as Brett Lebda out there. And before Eriksson's injury, kept throwing HIM out there despite all the boneheaded plays he was making. Hell....neither one have had their ice time so much as cut.

You wanna know the difference?

CHELI pre-dated Babcock. He was here, and built a history here, success here, LONG BEFORE Babs came to town. He's not one of "his" guys. Also, if Babs criticizes Lebs or Big Rig, what are they gonna do? They're KIDS! "Yes Coach!".

Babs tried to get up in Cheli's face, and Cheli LAUGHED in his face. That's because Christos Chelios was an NHL All Star, a runner up for the Calder, and a STANLEY CUP WINNER while Mike Babcock was trying to find a spot on any hockey Team that would take him. Chris Chelios is a first ballot, sure fire Hall of Famer, and one of the most respected Players ever to play the Game. Babcock treated him like he was s***. Cheli didn't like it, so he told Babs to f*** off. Babs answer? Fine. No ice time for you. Next? You're off the Team. Babs wins. Great victory for the Big Man.

He can get up in Lebda's face, and Lebs won't say s***. That's why Lebs is "okay" with Babs.

How long do YOU think it will be before all of the Good Will that the Wings have built up over the decades by treating their players with LOYALTY and RESPECT will evaporate once it gets around, (and it is.....believe me....it is), that Mike Babcock is a DICK to play for, and that he has no respect for his veterans - Veterans who are respected by their FELLOW PLAYERS, League wide - nor for anything they've accomplished in their careers, and that he's willing to throw even the most loyal, most dedicated Players under the bus?

And what's Babcock supposed to do? Hockey is a business. The players should understand that. Cheli didn't get his ice time cut for any reason other than he wasn't contributing. That's why Leino has been in the doghouse this year. That's why Brett Lebda was in the doghouse last year. While I don't blame Cheli for being upset, he's been around long enough to know that's the nature of the sport.

And as far as veteran backlash against him. I don't see Lidstrom, Draper, Maltby, or any of the other guys taking issue with him.

[Outsider 42]

And what's Babcock supposed to do? Hockey is a business. The players should understand that. Cheli didn't get his ice time cut for any reason other than he wasn't contributing. That's why Leino has been in the doghouse this year. That's why Brett Lebda was in the doghouse last year. While I don't blame Cheli for being upset, he's been around long enough to know that's the nature of the sport.

And as far as veteran backlash against him. I don't see Lidstrom, Draper, Maltby, or any of the other guys taking issue with him.

Lids has no reason to. If Stevie is God, Lids is Jesus. Period.

As for Drapes, Malts, and more than a few of the "other guys".....?

Ask around, mate. Ask around. Ozzie's not the only one, he's just the mouthiest one. Of course, he's the ONLY one who's been pushed right to the brink, too.

[RedFX 48]

Lids has no reason to. If Stevie is God, Lids is Jesus. Period.

As for Drapes, Malts, and more than a few of the "other guys".....?

Ask around, mate. Ask around. Ozzie's not the only one, he's just the mouthiest one. Of course, he's the ONLY one who's been pushed right to the brink, too.

Oh I'm sure he's not. I'm sure there's been alot of people unhappy with Babcock at one point. Just like about 95% of the team hated Scotty when he came here, and how a bunch of players still hated him all throughout his time here (Aaron Ward).

I'm just saying I don't think you can make Babcock into a douchebag out of that. Like I said, we see this all throughout hockey with virtually every different coach. You'll see a group of players offer nothing but praise and another group that just slams him in the press. One coach isn't going to be either loved or hated by everyone in that locker room.

Ozzie is frustrated and I don't blame him. He' a proven veteran who's proven and accomplished so much and all of a sudden he's riding in bunch in favor of the red-hot but unproven rookie. I'm sure Ozzie feels slighted. But in the end, Babs is just doing what he feels is best for the team.

[Broken 16 381]

But they still suck and cost us games with their play and yes since Lebda was Chelis partner.

Dave Lewis....?. He Sucked at life and continues to do so.... That was a horrible comparison ... on your part.

Where did I say he was better than Howard? Where in your warped view did I say that? Osgood has my respect because he was here for 3 Cups... and is among some of the top goalies that have played here.

I watched him start here and I have respect for him

because he isnt the Osgood of old doesnt mean you throw is ass to the curb like he meant nothing... You Might... But I don't . You will be right behind him asking for his autograph too won't you? ( at the Denny's) hoping to get in on that free meal.

Autographs don't really interest me.

The Dave Lewis comparison is valid because Dave Lewis was nice and friendly with the players. As opposed to real coaches, Like Babcock and Bowman. Lewis failed. Babcock succeeds.

And where did I say that you said that he was better than Howard? Where in your warped view did I say you said that? (two can play that game)

[Statts 4]

Glad you remember it. Few seem to. Typical revisionist history.

As to the other? You can chalk that up to something very simple, Statts:

Yzerman was a God. Still is. Deservedly so. Stevie could do no wrong. As soon as he hoisted the Cup for the first time? He was untouchable. Again.....deservedly so.

Osgood? He can do NO RIGHT! Ever. No matter what he accomplishes, it's shat upon. Belittled. He's lucky. He's NEVER been any good. He wouldn't even BE here if he weren't so "cheap". He led his Team to the Stanley Cup Finals, and earned another Ring as a Starter, with TWO consecutive Smythe worthy performances. And now everyone is ready to throw him over for a rookie with FORTY GAMES under his belt. Last year it was a CAREER BACK UP who'll never be ANYTHING in this League, and "gave" the Red Wings one freakin' Season. Prior to that? Another career back up whom everyone with ANY kind of hockey knowledge KNEW wasn't cut out for the job.

(Well....everyone but the new Head Coach who insisted he was, that is.....).

Waive him. Trade him. Just get this "cancer" out of here.

He has been ***** SLAPPED his entire career, despite being one of the TEN MOST SUCCESSFUL goaltenders in NHL History. As his career is winding down, he's TIRED of being ***** slapped. This Season? He hasn't even had a fair shake! He's being punished for essentially gettting SICK at the wrong time.

You and me, both. I'm betting that while it wasn't the smartest, most diplomatic thing to say, (though ONE HUNDRED PERCENT ACCURATE), it wasn't said in the way the print media makes it appear.

I'm betting it was rather like his off-handed comment about Bowman, back in the day, when he stated that he'd "given up" trying to figure out what Scotty wanted. That he'd be better off going outside and looking up at the clouds, because he'd have as much luck figuring out the clouds as he would figuring out William Scott Bowman.

Real Wings fans know how great Ozzie has been and his accomplishments through out his career. There are always going to be idiots saying otherwise. I've heard the similar about Lidstrom and Brodeur.

Last year Ozzie was treated with kid gloves. Ozzie played like s*** last reg season. Most other goalies play like that, their ass would be on waivers. That's reality.

I hope it was just an off handed comment . Best thing he could do right now is mentor Howard and working his ass off in practice. When he is called upon he needs to make the best of it because that's whats best for the team and all he can control. Keep all the complaints private.

Its not the ideal goal tending strategy, just the best one right now.

Edited January 21, 2010 by Statts

[Outsider 42]

Last year Ozzie was treated with kid gloves. Ozzie played like s*** last reg season. Most other goalies play like that, their ass would be on waivers. That's reality.

I'm calling bulls***. Osgood was roundly bashed by Babcock last Season, too. Benched and yanked and poked. And DESERVEDLY SO. "Treated with kid gloves."? That's hooey.

Also calling bulls*** on the second sentence in the paragraph, too.

Maybe a goaltender EARLY in his career who played like that might have been "on waivers". But NOT one with 14 years in the League, more than 300 Career Wins, and TWO Stanley Cups - ONE OF WHICH he'd just Won 6 months prior.

No way. No how. THAT is reality. Osgood DESERVED that chance to right his ship. He got that chance.

And he JUSTIFIED it. That, also, is reality.

I hope it was just an off handed comment . Best thing he could be doing right now is mentor Howard and working his ass off in practice. When he is called upon he needs to make the best of it because that's whats best for the team and all he can control. Keep all the complaints private.

Its not the ideal goal tending strategy, just the best one right now.

I hope it was off-handed too. By the way, he IS mentoring Howard. There have been two recent articles about how Howard is the beneficiary of a Chris Osgood who is NOT taking his bitterness over not playing out on the rook, but is doing his best to support and mentor him. Both excellent pieces: One by Darren Elliot at Sports Illustrated, the other by Craig Custance at The Sporting News.

Despite his unhappiness with not playing, Osgood is doing EVERYTHING he can to ensure that Howard has a bright future in Detroit for many years to come. And that is one of the MAIN reasons Holland wants him here.

[Vladifan 680]

I'll echo what I'm sure a lot of people already said. Ozzy needs to shut the f*** up and worry about his gaping 5-hole. How about not letting in 3 goals on 23 shots and then whining to the press.

Wow... Osgood did it all. I had no idea.

What a moron.

Just a little reminder here? Seems that on the one hand, many of you have said that the goalie is the last line of defense. That "he has to stop those". That it is usually mostly Ozzie's fault for Whatever. In fact, that seems to be the basis of your attacks on him (or ultimately any Detroit goalie for that matter.) Now, it seems a lot of you are saying "How dare he take credit for the success he had in the playoffs". What's it gonna be? Or does it matter?

Another reminder. Sports reporters/writers specifically and with deliberate choice will take lines out of context to engender conflict and make the news more sensationalized so we will read it. This is a given. Whether it's fair or not, they consider it part of their job. Sure, Ozzie's statement was pretty dumb. But will we ever know how the whole conversation went? And under what context the question was asked? Do most of you care? I think not.

[Vladifan 680]

Edit: I wish there was a video of the interview so I could hear Ozzie's tone of voice and body language.

I agree. The whole interview. Couldn't hurt one way or another.

[Vladifan 680]

leino > ozzie in net

Now this is what we're NOT talking about.