2/6 GDT: Red Wings 3 at Kings 4

[RedWings Gone Wild 6]

Last season was a nosedive?

If you were reading you would see the post said "in terms of our defending/motivation/fluidity/chemistry/special teams play (specially PK)"... which, yes, we were sloppy on defense last year, our motivation was hohum, our PK blew all season, and our chemistry was average... we simply had the offense to make up for it... in 08 we were a complete team, but we haven't been since.

[zettie85 106]

I agree its the players on the ice, but repeatedly blowing leads is a reflection on the coach. Bad defensive pairings are a reflection on the coach. Lack of PP, defensive net coverage, and even blown OT points is a reflection on the coach.

Basically when a team chronically and repeatedly under-performs you either change some players or you change the coach. That's been the formula in sports forever.

I get what you are saying. I misunderstood your previous post.

[Slabby 3]

I don't think Babcock's lost the team. When he had all the rested injury replacements in, they were playing rock solid defense and winning some games. I think the truth here is that our main guys are ground down by all the games and they just don't have it in them every game, especially in 3rd periods. I know nobody wants to believe that the Wings aren't capable of winning the cup, but it isn't Babcock's fault that half of his team is near-dead in any given game.

TBH, I think the best thing for this team long-term is to miss the playoffs this year and rest. That's hard to say, though.

[beepbeep 3]

Last season was a nosedive?

If you look at how they played defence. absolutely.

[Doc Holliday 1,888]

He also caused it by being stupid enough to not foresee all his FA's walking.

He played it conservative and watched everyone walk. I know he hates dealing guys away, but this team is now incredibly unbalanced and it's because Holland didn't have the spine to make moves to keep some of the guys who PUT THE ******* PUCK IN THE NET...damn, sorry, that's anger at the team. Don't take it personally...

You look at this team after the Finals and you get honest about what some of these guys can do instead of expecting guys like Cleary, Flip and Leino to just magically make up for guys in case everyone jumps ship. It was a stupid thing to do.

You balance your team out with proven guys that play a certain role or you have s***ty-ass seasons like this.

Again, this team looks it's worst when healthy, and that's Hollands team. He gets absolutely no pass in my book. If anything, I blame him almost entirely for how f***ed this season is.

A better solution would be great instead of saying "ZOMG he let them all walk what a terrible GM!"

[RedWingsFanatic 4]

Oh, ok then. Yelling at Ken Holland is stupid, but not trying to right the ship because of "too much adversity" and our core players not caring=makes sense.

If your core players aren't playing hard, f**k up their lives by sending their ass out of town. The ones that stick around realize that it could happen to them and start playing well.

Trade 1 core player and see what happens. I guarantee they start playing better, so long as the deal is BEFORE the deadline and they realize it can happen again and playing on the Red Wings doesn't mean that you will stick around forever "because its an awesome organization" regardless of your play.

Yeah, I just don't agree with this.

You don't trade a star player to send a message to the rest of the team. The only message that would send is something along the lines of "well, we're screwed."

I think there has to be enough faith in guys like Lidstrom and Draper and pressure put on guys like Z and Datsyuk to STEP UP TO THE PLATE. I thought Datsyuk was pretty phenomenal with the puck this afternoon. I'm as impatient as the next guy, but making a spontaneous, brash decision wouldn't be my game plan, either.

[RedWings Gone Wild 6]

Yeah, I just don't agree with this.

You don't trade a star player to send a message to the rest of the team. The only message that would send is something along the lines of "well, we're screwed."

I think there has to be enough faith in guys like Lidstrom and Draper and pressure put on guys like Z and Datsyuk to STEP UP TO THE PLATE. I thought Datsyuk was pretty phenomenal with the puck this afternoon. I'm as impatient as the next guy, but making a spontaneous, brash decision wouldn't be my game plan, either.

Agreed, our top line played very well tonight, the problem doesn't rest there... someone needs to tell Stuart to step up to the damn plate.

[gcom007 1,465]

Well that is expected. New guys come back and have to get used to playing and guys who have been playing need to play with guys coming back from injury. They need an adjustment period but we haven't had that. Every time someone comes back someone new goes down.

True on some level. But when you look at the strengths of guys and what they really do based not on what we "hope they can do" but what they've "actually done," I see a team that's brutally lacking in balance. I see a lot of individual guys that don't really fit that well together. Sure, having time to gel is important, but I think we've seen enough examples of healthier lines failing to get even a hint of chemistry going to worry. Remember, they had a training camp and a month where they were mostly injury free and we've been getting guys back for awhile now.

[Outsider 42]

Even they can't say anything positive about this team anymore.

This team right now looks like they have no desire to make the playoffs. The other teams in the West do.

This reminds me of the Rangers teams in the early part of the last decade. Great talent, but miss the playoffs and have a bunch of underachievers on their team. Pathetic.

Oh.....you mean those Teams with all the great producers in the "what have you done for me lately" category, but not much there in the "what have you actually accomplished in your career" category?

You mean those types of Teams where individual stats are lauded over actual career accomplishments.

You mean those types of Teams where the Coach has lost his Players?

You mean those types of Teams where everything looks fine and dandy while everything is, well....fine and dandy, but has a Head Coach who can't let go of his ego and make a change when adversity strikes?

Are those the types of Teams you're referring to?

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

Hey, remember when this team actually had leadership that made a difference.

Right now they look like a car going wildly downhill without anyone to ride it. Nobody behind the wheel.

Also, it's time to give Howard a ******* rest. I don't care if Ozzie banged Babcock's wife, or whatever happened there. Howard has looked tired recently. He was all over the place in this game.

[RedWingsFanatic 4]

Couple other things:

1) I know this season has sucked, guys, but it still amazes me how quickly people can turn on Ken Holland. It's ridiculous. The guy has built a total empire in Detroit and has been the mastermind in keeping guys here for so long and maintaining the excellence of the team. If you complain about Holland, you must complain about everything. I just don't get it.

2). I think it's going to be interesting to see what Babcock does with Osgood. If there was a time to go to him, it might be now. It would certainly shake things up a bit.

[Marty Barry 230]

What a bunch of whiny *******. It's a ******* game. A game that you watch on tv. A game that you can't play at that level. Wow, everybody is so worked up over it. f*** it. At least your not in Haiti, Afghanistan, Iraq, Somalia, Darfur, etc. Hate to see how you would react to a REAL problem.

[Doc Holliday 1,888]

True on some level. But when you look at the strengths of guys and what they really do based not on what we "hope they can do" but what they've "actually done," I see a team that's brutally lacking in balance. I see a lot of individual guys that don't really fit that well together. Sure, having time to gel is important, but I think we've seen enough examples of healthier lines failing to get even a hint of chemistry going to worry. Remember, they had a training camp and a month where they were mostly injury free and we've been getting guys back for awhile now.

I am really curious how signing one of the three UFA's last season was such a big deal.

One was a goal scorer with few minutes looking for money we couldn't give him.

Another was a streaky goal scorer who seemed to have trouble missing the other team's logos looking for money we couldn't give him.

The final was a great two way player who scored 10 more goals than a player who was signed for 20% less and was going to be out for half of the season.

I just don't buy the "balance" thing here when two of the three UFAs you have are looking for raises in the salary cap era.

[Marty Barry 230]

Couple other things:

1) I know this season has sucked, guys, but it still amazes me how quickly people can turn on Ken Holland. It's ridiculous. The guy has built a total empire in Detroit and has been the mastermind in keeping guys here for so long and maintaining the excellence of the team. If you complain about Holland, you must complain about everything. I just don't get it.

2). I think it's going to be interesting to see what Babcock does with Osgood. If there was a time to go to him, it might be now. It would certainly shake things up a bit.

Ozzy getting his game back now would be the greatest confidence builder, imo.

[skyphoenix 153]

I guess it's ironic that we trade Ville Leino and in the same day lose three forwards to injuries.

[Dave 324]

Well, after watching this game...all I can say is: the Wings will not make the playoffs this year. All streaks have to end and this seems like their end.

I've held out, and been (somewhat) optimistic, but...I just can't see it.

[GSBrooks13 204]

I missed the game.. guess I was lucky.. but whats this i hear on the injuries?.. any details.. if someone could fill me in id greatly appreciate it.

[VanDer 58]

What a bunch of whiny *******. It's a ******* game. A game that you watch on tv. A game that you can't play at that level. Wow, everybody is so worked up over it. f*** it. At least your not in Haiti, Afghanistan, Iraq, Somalia, Darfur, etc. Hate to see how you would react to a REAL problem.

I hate when people say things like that, yes we know the situation at those places. We are incredibly thankful that we aren't in the situation and everyone who is in that situation is in our prayers but i can't help but to get angry when my team loses, I'm not sayingits the end of the world i'm just abit angry

[zettie85 106]

I guess it's ironic that we trade Ville Leino and in the same day lose three forwards to injuries.

At least Abdelkader might be back!

[clutchngrab 12]

Hey, remember when this team actually had leadership that made a difference.

Right now they look like a car going wildly downhill without anyone to ride it. Nobody behind the wheel.

Also, it's time to give Howard a ******* rest. I don't care if Ozzie banged Babcock's wife, or whatever happened there. Howard has looked tired recently. He was all over the place in this game.

yeaaah, that should right the ship.

[Outsider 42]

Hey, remember when this team actually had leadership that made a difference.

Right now they look like a car going wildly downhill without anyone to ride it. Nobody behind the wheel.

Also, it's time to give Howard a ******* rest. I don't care if Ozzie banged Babcock's wife, or whatever happened there. Howard has looked tired recently. He was all over the place in this game.

Hey, remember when this Team had Coaching which put FAITH in it's veteran leadership, rather than throwing them under the bus when adversity hit?

Remember when this Team had Coaching which realized that this is a marathon, not a sprint, and that the ones most probably best equipped to get you over the finish line AGAIN, are those who have been there before, so that when they TELL you what they need to be successful, you GIVE them the best opportunity to be successful, rather than a backhanded slap and a response of "You'll work with what I think you need, not what you're telling me you need, because I'm the boss. You're not the boss. I'm the boss. You're not the boss. I'm the boss. Get it? Get it?!?"

[zettie85 106]

I missed the game.. guess I was lucky.. but whats this i hear on the injuries?.. any details.. if someone could fill me in id greatly appreciate it.

Eaves, Miller, Holmstrom. All lower body I believe. That's all I know.

[RedWingsFanatic 4]

The Nashville and Calgary games are especially huge tonight. If both teams win, or even earn points, I'm going to be awfully nervous.

[zettie85 106]

Hey, remember when this Team had Coaching which put FAITH in it's veteran leadership, rather than throwing them under the bus when adversity hit?

Remember when this Team had Coaching which realized that this is a marathon, not a sprint, and that the ones most probably best equipped to get you over the finish line AGAIN, are those who have been there before, so that when they TELL you what they need to be successful, you GIVE them the best opportunity to be successful, rather than a backhanded slap and a response of "You'll work with what I think you need, not what you're telling me you need, because I'm the boss. You're not the boss. I'm the boss. You're not the boss. I'm the boss. Get it? Get it?!?"

Seriously. We all know it's you Ozzie.

[Outsider 42]

Bowman was a bastard that everyone hated - that's how.

Scotty Bowman "did it" by relying on his VETS, and trusting that they would come through for him....as they had in the past.....rather than on the shiny new toys.