2/6 GDT: Red Wings 3 at Kings 4

[RedWingsFanatic 4]

Hey, remember when this Team had Coaching which put FAITH in it's veteran leadership, rather than throwing them under the bus when adversity hit?

Remember when this Team had Coaching which realized that this is a marathon, not a sprint, and that the ones most probably best equipped to get you over the finish line AGAIN, are those who have been there before, so that when they TELL you what they need to be successful, you GIVE them the best opportunity to be successful, rather than a backhanded slap and a response of "You'll work with what I think you need, not what you're telling me you need, because I'm the boss. You're not the boss. I'm the boss. You're not the boss. I'm the boss. Get it? Get it?!?"

I'd assume this is in reference to Osgood? In which case I'd totally disagree with you. There is no way that you can think Ozzie should have been starting over Howard considering the way both were playing. Jimmy Howard is the reason the Wings aren't completely out of this race.

[Hey man nice shot! 144]

I'm glad to see how much passion our community share's for the game, but seroiusly....this isant the end of the season. The olympic break may be the best thing for this team...they are beat up both ways and the break will give them there refresh. You will she your redwings soon TBC

[RedWingAbner 13]

Yeah, I just don't agree with this.

You don't trade a star player to send a message to the rest of the team. The only message that would send is something along the lines of "well, we're screwed."

I think there has to be enough faith in guys like Lidstrom and Draper and pressure put on guys like Z and Datsyuk to STEP UP TO THE PLATE. I thought Datsyuk was pretty phenomenal with the puck this afternoon. I'm as impatient as the next guy, but making a spontaneous, brash decision wouldn't be my game plan, either.

Really? We aren't Atlanta. We can trade a star for a star. Prior to the cap era, that happened quite a bit. And really-- I hate to admit it-- but is there anyone here who wouldn't take Getzlaf over Datsyuk right now? At the very least, it's intriuging.

[skyphoenix 153]

At least Abdelkader might be back!

I'm wondering if this is a joke.

[Copenhagen848 58]

I personally believe there is a leadership problem with this current team. No way should they be consistently blowing multi-goal leading games like they have the past month or so. There is absolutely no excuse for games like this, especially for the talent the Wings have. Injuries are no excuse, they just flat out quit playing. It's getting to the point where I don't even want to watch them anymore this season because I'm sick of seeing them blow games like this.....pathetic.

[Guest mindfly]

They played so much hockey the past seasons, and now it caught up with their bodies and heads and the injuries and lack of essential hockey things reveal themselves this season.

[zettie85 106]

I'm glad to see how much passion our community share's for the game, but seroiusly....this isant the end of the season. The olympic break may be the best thing for this team...they are beat up both ways and the break will give them there refresh. You will she your redwings soon TBC

Except our best players don't get a break.

[zettie85 106]

Really? We aren't Atlanta. We can trade a star for a star. Prior to the cap era, that happened quite a bit. And really-- I hate to admit it-- but is there anyone here who wouldn't take Getzlaf over Datsyuk right now? At the very least, it's intriuging.

Ya, especially Anahiem.

[RedWingAbner 13]

Couple other things:

1) I know this season has sucked, guys, but it still amazes me how quickly people can turn on Ken Holland. It's ridiculous. The guy has built a total empire in Detroit and has been the mastermind in keeping guys here for so long and maintaining the excellence of the team. If you complain about Holland, you must complain about everything. I just don't get it.

2). I think it's going to be interesting to see what Babcock does with Osgood. If there was a time to go to him, it might be now. It would certainly shake things up a bit.

Really? Ken Holland built this empire? Scotty Bowman assembled the pieces and left behind a Cup-winner that Holland had in 1998. In 2002, he spent what, an additional $20 million to bring in Hasek, Hull, and Robitaille? And in 2008, most of our top contributors were Hakan Andersson finds with late picks. The "empire" you speak of is Rome--Holland is just the current caesar, not the architect.

[Jwo 7]

They played already? WTF?

[gcom007 1,465]

Couple other things:

1) I know this season has sucked, guys, but it still amazes me how quickly people can turn on Ken Holland. It's ridiculous. The guy has built a total empire in Detroit and has been the mastermind in keeping guys here for so long and maintaining the excellence of the team. If you complain about Holland, you must complain about everything. I just don't get it.

2). I think it's going to be interesting to see what Babcock does with Osgood. If there was a time to go to him, it might be now. It would certainly shake things up a bit.

While I've been hyper-critical of Holland in this thread, that doesn't mean I think he should be run out of town either. You can be critical of people and identify mistakes without thinking that they're total hacks that should be fired.

I think Holland screwed up big-time in the off-season. I would've traded some roster players and let certain guys walk to keep some of our proven scoring depth. I think that was a HUGE gamble, and I don't think it was hard to spot. It was convenient to memorize, but the writing was on the wall that this team was in scoring trouble when all four guys walked and the reality is, it could've been prevented. We have plenty of two-way depth on offense and a major lack of scoring. That's a simple thing to see. You trade some of that depth away for cap space and sign your goal scorers.

It should have been simple but he hesitated. He comes out after and says that he never foresaw every guy walking, and if that's really true, than shame on him for being stupid. I think he probably knew better than he let on, but he still didn't have the gall to make the moves necessary to keep our goal count up.

That said, I think he did a good job cleaning up the mess as best he could in signing Bert and Eaves. I would've passed on Williams and saved the cap space, but I wasn't wholly bothered by the move either.

He is a master at signing stars and "no-names" to great deals, but I've been less than thrilled to say the least at his deals with mid-level guys.

I agree with many who suggest that the European scouting that's been in place for awhile ought to get more praise for finding many of the guys that we've built the empire around, though that's also no fault of Hollands either.

I think the biggest thing is that Holland needs to learn from this season that he's got to make sacrifices to ice a solid, well-rounded team. You can't keep every guy you developed. You can't keep every guy you "hope" becomes a better player.

Again, I'm not saying we should run him out of town, but his poor decisions or lack of foresight got us into this mess, and it's silly not to acknowledge it as a fundamental mistake that's lead to many of our problems when it blatantly is what it is.

[Outsider 42]

I'd assume this is in reference to Osgood? In which case I'd totally disagree with you. There is no way that you can think Ozzie should have been starting over Howard considering the way both were playing.

Nope. Not just Ozzie. But Ozzie is one of them.

Why don't you take a look at what's happened to the veteran leadership in that lockerroom, going back to Babcock's first year in Detroit.

Take a look at how it was treated PRIOR to it's oftentimes sudden departure from the Organization, up to and including last year.....

Then tell me the balance of the veteran leadership which is still left in the Room probably isn't sitting back and saying "WTF......" to themselves.

[RedWingAbner 13]

Ya, especially Anahiem.

I can't tell...perhaps because I am livid....are you agreeing or disagreeing that you would want Getzlaf over Datsyuk? Or, are you saying Anaheim would jump on that because Datsyuk's better?

[gcom007 1,465]

Ozzy getting his game back now would be the greatest confidence builder, imo.

I think Osgood needs to play to get ready for the playoffs, but this team has way bigger problems than goaltending. If they can't find confidence from Jimmy Howard when he's generally played so well, you know for certain it's not the goaltender that's going to get them going.

[RedWingsFanatic 4]

Really? We aren't Atlanta. We can trade a star for a star. Prior to the cap era, that happened quite a bit. And really-- I hate to admit it-- but is there anyone here who wouldn't take Getzlaf over Datsyuk right now? At the very least, it's intriuging.

It may be intriguing, but I'd never do that in a million years.

I get where you're coming from and it's hard not to want the team to do something drastic, but I don't think it makes sense. It isn't to say that we just need to continue plugging along and stick to what we've been doing, though. Obviously somebody needs to step up. In my opinion, an impassioned, powerful speech from Nick Lidstrom might do more than any trade.

I said I wanted the Wings in the top 8 at the Olympic Break, which is obviously still feasible. We'll need Calgary and Nashville to stumble a bit and help us out, but it can happen. Hopefully we get healthy (and our guys STAY healthy in Vancouver) and we come back from the break with a new energy and purpose.

This is me back to Mr. Optimism again, which is so outside my character. I'm not sure what's happening to me.

[RedWingsFanatic 4]

Nope. Not just Ozzie. But Ozzie is one of them.

Why don't you take a look at what's happened to the veteran leadership in that lockerroom, going back to Babcock's first year in Detroit.

Take a look at how it was treated PRIOR to it's oftentimes sudden departure from the Organization, up to and including last year.....

Then tell me the balance of the veteran leadership which is still left in the Room probably isn't sitting back and saying "WTF......" to themselves.

I have absolutely no idea what any of this means.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

They played so much hockey the past seasons, and now it caught up with their bodies and heads and the injuries and lack of essential hockey things reveal themselves this season.

This explanation seems as good as any.

Maybe we need a year where the Wings play like s*** and get a top 10 draft pick.

Hell, let's just throw the towel in and shoot for the moon. The top 3 picks this year will all be real good.

[Carman 387]

This explanation seems as good as any.

Maybe we need a year where the Wings play like s*** and get a top 10 draft pick.

Hell, let's just throw the towel in and shoot for the moon. The top 3 picks this year will all be real good.

I'd give a ******** for Cam Fowler.

[RedWingsFanatic 4]

While I've been hyper-critical of Holland in this thread, that doesn't mean I think he should be run out of town either. You can be critical of people and identify mistakes without thinking that they're total hacks that should be fired.

I think Holland screwed up big-time in the off-season. I would've traded some roster players and let certain guys walk to keep some of our proven scoring depth. I think that was a HUGE gamble, and I don't think it was hard to spot. It was convenient to memorize, but the writing was on the wall that this team was in scoring trouble when all four guys walked and the reality is, it could've been prevented. We have plenty of two-way depth on offense and a major lack of scoring. That's a simple thing to see. You trade some of that depth away for cap space and sign your goal scorers.

It should have been simple but he hesitated. He comes out after and says that he never foresaw every guy walking, and if that's really true, than shame on him for being stupid. I think he probably knew better than he let on, but he still didn't have the gall to make the moves necessary to keep our goal count up.

That said, I think he did a good job cleaning up the mess as best he could in signing Bert and Eaves. I would've passed on Williams and saved the cap space, but I wasn't wholly bothered by the move either.

He is a master at signing stars and "no-names" to great deals, but I've been less than thrilled to say the least at his deals with mid-level guys.

I agree with many who suggest that the European scouting that's been in place for awhile ought to get more praise for finding many of the guys that we've built the empire around, though that's also no fault of Hollands either.

I think the biggest thing is that Holland needs to learn from this season that he's got to make sacrifices to ice a solid, well-rounded team. You can't keep every guy you developed. You can't keep every guy you "hope" becomes a better player.

Again, I'm not saying we should run him out of town, but his poor decisions or lack of foresight got us into this mess, and it's silly not to acknowledge it as a fundamental mistake that's lead to many of our problems when it blatantly is what it is.

Very well put. We're on the same page.

I think it's totally fair to be critical of Holland. I echo many of the points you make. It just seems to me that, when tough times like these happen, he's the first guy people throw under the bus.

I think it was very unfortunate we lost everybody in the off-season, but there was also no way anybody could have foreseen the injuries that have plagued the Wings all season. Combining the two was the real catalyst for ineptitude. Still, it'd be awfully nice to have Hudler or Samuelsson (I never thought I'd say that).

[zettie85 106]

I can't tell...perhaps because I am livid....are you agreeing or disagreeing that you would want Getzlaf over Datsyuk? Or, are you saying Anaheim would jump on that because Datsyuk's better?

I'm saying that Anahiem would pick Geztlaf too. Therefore no trade. I don't think we can get rid of D though. I really don't think we make any moves until the off season. I don't care. It is disappointing but I think we would be better off playing out this season and if we make the playoffs then great if not we do something in the off season.

Like I have mentioned in other threads, we have been spoiled as fans and anything less then a cup is disappointing. It is somewhat refreshing to have no pressure on us right now(or not as much). I won't be so stressed out around playoff time this year.

Don't get me wrong, I only want this to happen once but to think there is no pressure come playoff time is relaxing to me and my heart.

[gcom007 1,465]

What a bunch of whiny *******. It's a ******* game. A game that you watch on tv. A game that you can't play at that level. Wow, everybody is so worked up over it. f*** it. At least your not in Haiti, Afghanistan, Iraq, Somalia, Darfur, etc. Hate to see how you would react to a REAL problem.

I suppose it doesn't help people with "real problems" to have something of lesser-consequence like sports or entertainment to get excited about and be passionate about when "real life" is s***ty. People need stuff like this to get excited about to get through "real problems." Sure, the downside is that it can spark anger as well, but that's just part of life. There's nothing any less real about this than other horrible things in many ways, and I don't say that to minimize epic tragedies at all. All I'm saying is you can't look at it all in such a black and white manner.

If these seemingly "little things" were of no importance at all, it would minimize the tragedy of a massive amount of people. If there was nothing worth being excited about, what would be the point of living? And if there's nothing worth being upset about, how great can it be? These little things have far more to do with "life" actually happening than people dying in tragedies.

The bottom line is that it makes no sense to compare the two things. They exist on totally different planes in many ways. I get the sentiment on some level, but I would suggest you consider reevaluating the thought for yourself.

And I'm not taking the time to write a proper, formal essay here, but I hope you can see the point I'm getting at. I'm really not trying to minimize a tragedy like Haiti that literally brought tears to my eyes (and I'm not one to cry at all) that I have donated money too. That is the last thing I am trying to do. I'm just trying to present a defense of looking at life in a more holistic context.

[Guest mindfly]

I'm saying that Anahiem would pick Geztlaf too. Therefore no trade. I don't think we can get rid of D though. I really don't think we make any moves until the off season. I don't care. It is disappointing but I think we would be better off playing out this season and if we make the playoffs then great if not we do something in the off season.

Like I have mentioned in other threads, we have been spoiled as fans and anything less then a cup is disappointing. It is somewhat refreshing to have no pressure on us right now(or not as much). I won't be so stressed out around playoff time this year.

Don't get me wrong, I only want this to happen once but to think there is no pressure come playoff time is relaxing to me and my heart.

But how will it feel to follow the playoffs with no wings team in it... it hasn't happend in like 19years... almost as old as i am... i don't think i'll watch the playoffs if wings are out of it.. seeing kane and chicago hoisting it... stingerrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

They played already? WTF?

Yeah we blew a 3 goal lead and lost without getting any points.

You're lucky you missed out. It wasn't pleasant to watch.

[zettie85 106]

But how will it feel to follow the playoffs with no wings team in it... it hasn't happend in like 19years... almost as old as i am... i don't think i'll watch the playoffs if wings are out of it.. seeing kane and chicago hoisting it... stingerrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Prolly feel like a first round exit without the sting.

I'll watch and it will be good we made it to the final dance 2 years in a row. It's time to take a vacation this post-season.

I have never watched a more interesting playoffs then when the Oilers dumped the Wings in the first round. Definitely disappointing but it was a great playoffs to watch with no pressure.

[gcom007 1,465]

Hey, remember when this Team had Coaching which put FAITH in it's veteran leadership, rather than throwing them under the bus when adversity hit?

Remember when this Team had Coaching which realized that this is a marathon, not a sprint, and that the ones most probably best equipped to get you over the finish line AGAIN, are those who have been there before, so that when they TELL you what they need to be successful, you GIVE them the best opportunity to be successful, rather than a backhanded slap and a response of "You'll work with what I think you need, not what you're telling me you need, because I'm the boss. You're not the boss. I'm the boss. You're not the boss. I'm the boss. Get it? Get it?!?"

Listen, I think Osgood should start down the stretch and into the playoffs too, but this is bigger than Chris Osgood or Jimmy Howard. It's not Howard's fault we're losing these games no more than Osgood's. Howard's done everything he can possibly do and it hasn't helped this team.

Other than Osgood, who has he really screwed around with this year?