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ebl96

Why is there so much love for Filppula on this board?

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why don't we question the contract given to Dan Cleary who has been useless as f*** this entire season.

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why don't we question the contract given to Dan Cleary who has been useless as f*** this entire season.

Good point.

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Yes, but the way I see it keeping Hossa helps us a lot more in the short term than he would hurt in the long run. Player's like Val, especailly the way he is being underutilized, are far more replacable. Just my opinion though.

He is underutilized. I don't think it would be easy to find a replacement for Flip. He is very solid both ways. Would it be better to have a scoring winger than Flip? Well obviously but the reality is that the Wings have 3 centremen that belong in the top two lines which leaves Flip on the third line. ZDH should be together as well as Franzen, Flip and Williams/Bert/Cleary. That is what I believe.

why don't we question the contract given to Dan Cleary who has been useless as f*** this entire season.

Cleary is good for 20 goals and 40 points (past three seasons). He has played 54 games this year and has 29 points. He usually plays 70-77 games a season so I will not factor in the 12 games he missed due to injury (even though it could have affected him upon returning to he lineup). With 16 games left, he is one pace to hit his numbers or at least come close. The Wings do not expect Cleary to be a 50 point player but I am sure you know that.

Edited by superstarsingh

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And it makes sense to you guys to have Zetterberg, Franzen, Datsyuk, Hossa or Flip locked in for a minimum of five years? So who is the Brad Richards of that group? Hell, who is the Dan Boyle?

With Zetterberg ($6), Franzen ($3.95), Datsyuk ($6.7), and Hossa ($5), you have $22 million invested.

With Zetterberg ($6), Franzen ($3.95), Datsyuk ($6.7), Filppula ($3), and Cleary ($2.8), you have about $22.8 million invested.

Which grouping would you rather have?

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If Hossa signed with the Wing's the exact same contract he did with the Hawks (which would most probably be slightly higher than what he would have with us), the Wing's would only be hindered to sign depth next year should Lidstrom's contract be around 5+.

Due to current inflation treands, and the bad NA economy, the cap by the time Hossa is 38 will almost assurdly be over 70 million, making his relative cap hit far less. In addition for all the "outrage" it caused with the NHL, they have still yet to do ANYTHING to the Hawks, and unlikely that they will. What are they supposed to say... allright Guy's you found a loophole that was technically legal, but we expect our GM's to operate on highstanards so you'll be docked some cash and some draft picks? um... no.

Hossa would most probably not play more past 38ish, and seeing as how by the time he is that age, his salary would fit a Dan Cleary like player, only slight overpayment would occur.

Yes, but the way I see it keeping Hossa helps us a lot more in the short term than he would hurt in the long run. Player's like Val, especailly the way he is being underutilized, are far more replacable. Just my opinion though.

Once again you have no idea what the cap 6 years from now, so you would potentially hinder yourself with a lot of long term contracts because you have NO ******* CLUE what the cap hit is. (Stop running on assumptions and saying it's fact.) Also what happens if Hossa doesn't want to retire? Does Chicago cut him? Does that piss Hossa off and say something about them signing him with intentions of retiring before contract ends? Once again unless you have a crystal ball shoved up your ass you have no idea what the distant future holds (especially on a contract like that), but I sure would not want to be hindered because I gave a s*** ton of long term contracts out. Also how is Flip overpaid yet Dan Cleary is SLIGHTLY overpaid, if Hossa=Cleary overpayment then it certainly isn't worth it because Cleary has been invisible. But you are right Flip is compeltely being underutilized, Babcock needs to take Cleary/Williams off the 2nd a Flip on them. If he can't put up points on the 2nd and is just relegated to the 3rd line for the rest of his contract then I would agree he is overpaid. I don't care the line up but have Homer/Flip/Dats/Z/Franzen/ all on the top 6, I would think Helm has EARNED time up there but talent wise idk.

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With Zetterberg ($6), Franzen ($3.95), Datsyuk ($6.7), and Hossa ($5), you have $22 million invested.

With Zetterberg ($6), Franzen ($3.95), Datsyuk ($6.7), Filppula ($3), and Cleary ($2.8), you have about $22.8 million invested.

Which grouping would you rather have?

The grouping that is more spread out. Cleary is suited for playoff hockey and you need role players like him in order to win and Flip has played well in the past two runs. Sure Cleary and Flip can be "replaced" but I would rather have the two of them than Hossa. Hossa is a great player and I have no bias against him, I just know that he was not needed to win.

Edited by superstarsingh

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Yes, I remember saying that--never.

I do remember Johan Franzen scoring 27 and 34 goals in consecutive seasons and putting up 13 in the 08 Cup run.

It not much of a financial jump from Flip ($3M cap hit) to Franzen ($3.9M cap hit). The difference between the two is Franzen isn't being paid on potential.

...

Franzen is very much being paid on potential. Perhaps even more so than Flip. Remember, Franzen's deal is for 11 years. There is considerable projection in making that kind of commitment. Who knows what Mule will be like in 5-8-10 years. Who knows what the cap will be like. Franzen's SALARY this year is $5.5 million. Flip's is $2.5. What they will make in the future (and thus what their cap hit works out to) is based entirely on projection.

Which leads me to those saying keeping Flip cost us Hossa. I didn't bother reading the poll, as the premise is ludicrous. With Franzen and Zetterberg both on 10+ year deals, and the prospect of needing to replace Lidstrom soon (and probably Rafalski as well), and many other players needing new contracts in the next 4-5 years, and the uncertainty of the cap...there's no way we could make a long term commitment to a player over 30.

Furthermore, even if we could have somehow kept Hossa for ~5.3, we still have to move more than just Flip to fit that in. A more realistic number for a short term deal for Hossa would be 6.5-7 million. So: Flip, Cleary, & Kronwall (or something similar) for Hossa and 2 scrubs is a better comparison.

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Franzen is very much being paid on potential. Perhaps even more so than Flip. Remember, Franzen's deal is for 11 years. There is considerable projection in making that kind of commitment. Who knows what Mule will be like in 5-8-10 years. Who knows what the cap will be like. Franzen's SALARY this year is $5.5 million. Flip's is $2.5. What they will make in the future (and thus what their cap hit works out to) is based entirely on projection.

Which leads me to those saying keeping Flip cost us Hossa. I didn't bother reading the poll, as the premise is ludicrous. With Franzen and Zetterberg both on 10+ year deals, and the prospect of needing to replace Lidstrom soon (and probably Rafalski as well), and many other players needing new contracts in the next 4-5 years, and the uncertainty of the cap...there's no way we could make a long term commitment to a player over 30.

Furthermore, even if we could have somehow kept Hossa for ~5.3, we still have to move more than just Flip to fit that in. A more realistic number for a short term deal for Hossa would be 6.5-7 million. So: Flip, Cleary, & Kronwall (or something similar) for Hossa and 2 scrubs is a better comparison.

Not really. He's already but up 34 goals in a season. Cap hit is what matters when determining the roster.

Other than that, I tend to agree with your post. However, I think that if the Wings signed Hossa to another short-term deal (1 year at 6, perhaps) it would be Flip, Bertuzzi, Williams gone.

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Not really. He's already but up 34 goals in a season. Cap hit is what matters when determining the roster.

Other than that, I tend to agree with your post. However, I think that if the Wings signed Hossa to another short-term deal (1 year at 6, perhaps) it would be Flip, Bertuzzi, Williams gone.

So the Wings would sign Hossa to another one year deal and trade Flip away to keep Hossa for one more year? :lol:

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So the Wings would sign Hossa to another one year deal and trade Flip away to keep Hossa for one more year? :lol:

No. At the conclusion of that additional deal, the Wings would re-evaluate and Nick Lidstrom would decide if he was coming back. Then, you go forward on a possible longer-term deal.

And honestly, I would trade Flip away to keep Hossa for one more year. Is there a button we can push to do that? :)

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No. At the conclusion of that additional deal, the Wings would re-evaluate and Nick Lidstrom would decide if he was coming back. Then, you go forward on a possible longer-term deal.

And honestly, I would trade Flip away to keep Hossa for one more year. Is there a button we can push to do that? :)

Yikes, that is where we differ. I feel a lot of this wanting to have retained Hossa lies in the fact that he signed with the Blackhawks.

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why don't we question the contract given to Dan Cleary who has been useless as f*** this entire season.

This season Cleary has his highest PPG average of his entire career. He also has one less goal than he had last season in 20 less games.

Again this is people pointing the finger just to put the finger because they done know where to point the finger just because things are going bad.

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This season Cleary has his highest PPG average of his entire career. He also has one less goal than he had last season in 20 less games.

Again this is people pointing the finger just to put the finger because they done know where to point the finger just because things are going bad.

That doesn't mean he couldn't be overpaid. You have to compare him with other players, not with himself.

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That doesn't mean he couldn't be overpaid. You have to compare him with other players, not with himself.

Well his cap hit wasnt a problem for anyone last season. I think his cap hit is pretty reasonable for what he brings to the table.

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why don't we question the contract given to Dan Cleary who has been useless as f*** this entire season.

I always thought he was overpaid.

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It would be a very good lesson for a lot of posters on this forum to log onto capgeek.com and just scroll through teams salary charts just to get an idea about how much people are getting paid and how they are producing. Id like to know what players you guys would rather have than Filppula and Cleary at their cap hit, excluding young players on their rookie contract.

haroldsnepsts likes this

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It would be a very good lesson for a lot of posters on this forum to log onto capgeek.com and just scroll through teams salary charts just to get an idea about how much people are getting paid and how they are producing. Id like to know what players you guys would rather have than Filppula and Cleary at their cap hit, excluding young players on their rookie contract.

Ryan Kesler at $1.75 as an offer sheet match contract, please.

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Ryan Kesler at $1.75 as an offer sheet match contract, please.

You obviously dont listen very well. Or read very well in this instance.

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Not really. He's already but up 34 goals in a season. Cap hit is what matters when determining the roster.

Other than that, I tend to agree with your post. However, I think that if the Wings signed Hossa to another short-term deal (1 year at 6, perhaps) it would be Flip, Bertuzzi, Williams gone.

What Franzen has already done has no bearing on even this season, much less 8 years from now. How many goals has he scored in the next 10 years? I count zero so far. Potential to stay the same is no different than potential to improve.

And when you are evaluating a contract you have to consider all the terms of the deal, including length. The Wings made a much larger commitment to Franzen, commensurate with his higher production. The same is true for Zetterberg over Franzen.

And your Hossa proposal wouldn't work. Even assuming we could get him that low for a 1 year deal, you'd still leave us two forwards short. So at the very least, you'd have to get rid of another player making $1.5 million (or more), and add three players at league minimum (or whatever salary you dumped).

No matter how you try to work it, saying that Flip is the reason we didn't sign Hossa is simply preposterous.

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Once again you have no idea what the cap 6 years from now, so you would potentially hinder yourself with a lot of long term contracts because you have NO ******* CLUE what the cap hit is. (Stop running on assumptions and saying it's fact.) Also what happens if Hossa doesn't want to retire? Does Chicago cut him? Does that piss Hossa off and say something about them signing him with intentions of retiring before contract ends? Once again unless you have a crystal ball shoved up your ass you have no idea what the distant future holds (especially on a contrac like that), but I sure would not want to be hindered because I gave a s*** ton of long term contracts out. Also how is Flip overpaid yet Dan Cleary is SLIGHTLY overpaid, if Hossa=Cleary overpayment then it certainly isn't worth it because Cleary has been invisible. But you are right Flip is compeltely being underutilized, Babcock needs to take Cleary/Williams off the 2nd a Flip on them. If he can't put up points on the 2nd and is just relegated to the 3rd line for the rest of his contract then I would agree he is overpaid. I don't care the line up but have Homer/Flip/Dats/Z/Franzen/ all on the top 6, I would think Helm has EARNED time up there but talent wise idk.

:lol:

Edited by EZBAKETHAGANGSTA

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You obviously dont listen very well. Or read very well in this instance.

You obviously don't know that Ryan Kesler, at the conclusion of his rookie contract, signed an offer sheet with Philly for $1.9 M, 1 year. Vancouver matched.

So, to recap, he played out his rookie deal...ala Filppula....signed with Philly for $1.9 M, which Vancouver matched....then signed for $1.75 M per season for three years. I guess if I was relying on a website to do the work for me, I'd miss that too.

What exactly did I miss?

What Franzen has already done has no bearing on even this season, much less 8 years from now. How many goals has he scored in the next 10 years? I count zero so far. Potential to stay the same is no different than potential to improve.

And when you are evaluating a contract you have to consider all the terms of the deal, including length. The Wings made a much larger commitment to Franzen, commensurate with his higher production. The same is true for Zetterberg over Franzen.

And your Hossa proposal wouldn't work. Even assuming we could get him that low for a 1 year deal, you'd still leave us two forwards short. So at the very least, you'd have to get rid of another player making $1.5 million (or more), and add three players at league minimum (or whatever salary you dumped).

No matter how you try to work it, saying that Flip is the reason we didn't sign Hossa is simply preposterous.

I wasn't trying to imply that those would be the ONLY moves made. Retaining Hossa would require moving roster players--as Holland said prior to the end of last season.

I'm not saying Flip is the only reason we didn't sign Hossa. I agree that is preposterous.

Edited by RedWingAbner

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I have been a Wings fan for as long as I can remember. However I have lived in San Diego my whole life so I rarely get to discuss the team with anyone who follows them like I do. Now don't get me wrong, I feel like Flip is an alright player, but can not understand why is has practically been crowned as the next Hank or Dats. Even though he has only played 38 games this year, his statistics are still nothing special especially considering he is supposed to be a skill/finesse player. His defense is suspect, he needs to play stronger, and his stick handling while exceptional, hardly merits the praise his overall game receives from the loyal wings fans on the site. Please inform me on something I may be missing. I don't get to watch every game but I watch an many as one can being from San Diego.

There is always a stronger connection to players who come up through the Wings system. You follow them through the minors and you keep up hope that they become the next great player on the team. Obviously Filppula's regular season stats won't wow you right now, but the guy shows up in the playoffs and has a knack for scoring big goals in the playoffs. Filppula has all the tools to be a really good player in this league and now that Babcock has decided to move him up to the 2nd line with Zetterberg you might see Filppula fully blossom.

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Everyone is forgetting about how good Cleary plays in the playoffs. He deserves his money for the playoffs alone, he played so good last year he got invited to the team Canada camp. That says somethnig considering they won gold.

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Everyone is forgetting about how good Cleary plays in the playoffs. He deserves his money for the playoffs alone, he played so good last year he got invited to the team Canada camp. That says somethnig considering they won gold.

Cleary didn't have a reasonable shot to make team Canada, to be completely honest. The only way he made the roster is if half of the team got hit by busses on the way to Canada Hockey Place.

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This season Cleary has his highest PPG average of his entire career. He also has one less goal than he had last season in 20 less games.

Again this is people pointing the finger just to put the finger because they done know where to point the finger just because things are going bad.

You back your point up with facts that I can't refute, but I must say watching him out there he doesn't look nearly as affective and shouldn't be on the 2nd line. But I suppose maybe it's because he is being relied upon more. Valid point though.

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