Great or Bust?

[Bring Back The Bruise Bros 1,029]

Not every finnish player is god, you know that right?

One way or another,every Finnish player has some god given skill,according to him.

[RedFX 48]

It's not like he was a God-awful player. Everyone knew what he could do when we signed him. He just never really fit into the system here. And with the team circumstances at the time of the trade, we couldn't afford to be patient with him. I think a change of scenery is exactly what he needed. And hopefully he'll continue to be consistent next year

[Finnish Wing 110]

Not every finnish player is god, you know that right?

Your point has nothing to do with the actual conversation. But I doubt you ever even read through the conversations there.

Not every enforcer is a god either.

One way or another,every Finnish player has some god given skill,according to him.

Same goes with you and your beloved enforcers. The difference is that I've got nothing against enforcers, but you seem to have problems with Finnish players.

[eva unit zero 271]

Finnish Wing,

The problem most people have with Leino falls because of two reasons:

1) He is doing much better for Philly.

2) This is the big one; People (mainly the "it's not hockey if there isn't a fight" crew) hated Hudler because he was small, so the expectation was that he was going to be Hudler and replace his scoring, only with size and physical play. He's a good player, but those same people just don't realize the kind of skill Hudler has and the ability to create offense from NOTHING that he has displayed. Leino should do well on a team like Philly that is giving him an opportunity, just like how if actually given an opportunity in Detroit, Hudler should be an absolute monster offensively.

So you can see where this whole discussion came from. Hope that sheds some light.

[Guest Lidstromboli]

i like how you managed to work hudler into this topic

[Guest CaliWingsNut]

Finnish Wing,

The problem most people have with Leino falls because of two reasons:

1) He is doing much better for Philly.

2) This is the big one; People (mainly the "it's not hockey if there isn't a fight" crew) hated Hudler because he was small, so the expectation was that he was going to be Hudler and replace his scoring, only with size and physical play. He's a good player, but those same people just don't realize the kind of skill Hudler has and the ability to create offense from NOTHING that he has displayed. Leino should do well on a team like Philly that is giving him an opportunity, just like how if actually given an opportunity in Detroit, Hudler should be an absolute monster offensively.

So you can see where this whole discussion came from. Hope that sheds some light.

Yes... People hate Leino because they hate Hudler! The world makes sense now. /sarcasm

[8 Legged RedWing 367]

How does Leinos wiener taste Finnish Wing?

[Broken 16 381]

Finnish Wing,

The problem most people have with Leino falls because of two reasons:

1) He is doing much better for Philly.

2) This is the big one; People (mainly the "it's not hockey if there isn't a fight" crew) hated Hudler because he was small, so the expectation was that he was going to be Hudler and replace his scoring, only with size and physical play. He's a good player, but those same people just don't realize the kind of skill Hudler has and the ability to create offense from NOTHING that he has displayed. Leino should do well on a team like Philly that is giving him an opportunity, just like how if actually given an opportunity in Detroit, Hudler should be an absolute monster offensively.

So you can see where this whole discussion came from. Hope that sheds some light.

God... why does everything have to be about Hudler... even when it isn't.

[Puckpossession 3]

Theres no valid conversation to have with finnishwing, he is biased and will defend any finnish player to death, hes looking from his heart, not with his eyes. Leino is doing good right now but dont act like hes creating his chances for himself. Atleast leino trys to deke people though, unlike filpula who just enters the zone, skates around the net and does nothing.

[Edillac 1]

he is a smart player,Wings are overcrowded in that department,Flyers always lack brains,so no wonder.But still: 16 PO points till now,amazing.

Leino,Briere and Hartnell sure are a funny mix though.

[Puckpossession 3]

he is a smart player,Wings are overcrowded in that department,Flyers always lack brains,so no wonder.But still: 16 PO points till now,amazing.

Leino,Briere and Hartnell sure are a funny mix though.

Hartnells a good hockey player, works hard, decent offense skills, physical, thats a perfect compelementary player

[Finnish Wing 110]

Theres no valid conversation to have with finnishwing, he is biased and will defend any finnish player to death, hes looking from his heart, not with his eyes. Leino is doing good right now but dont act like hes creating his chances for himself. Atleast leino trys to deke people though, unlike filpula who just enters the zone, skates around the net and does nothing.

Total bulls***. I couldn't care less about Timonen and Niemi for example. I could as well say that you're biased because he's an ex-Red Wing you don't like. How come every Flyers fan say he's been one of their dominant players (and also many other teams fans and media) and only Red Wings fans like you hate him? Maybe it's because he didn't play well here this season and you think - or at least want to think - that he always plays like that.

Hartnells a good hockey player, works hard, decent offense skills, physical, thats a perfect compelementary player

You know what? Hartnell hadn't scored a goal in like twenty games or something like that. He was surfing around, taking stupid penalties and every Flyers fan wanted to get him benched, much like in Leino's case here. Then came Ville Leino and Scotty Hartnell was put on his line (he had already played with Briere earlier) and he immediately got the goal and has played well with Leino ever since. Your hate and anger is totally blinding your skill to judge the player in this case and it's also leading you to the Dark Side. Edited June 6, 2010 by Finnish Wing

[Puckpossession 3]

Total bulls***. I couldn't care less about Timonen and Niemi for example. I could as well say that you're biased because he's an ex-Red Wing you don't like. How come every Flyers fan say he's been one of their dominant players (and also many other teams fans and media) and only Red Wings fans like you hate him? Maybe it's because he didn't play well here this season and you think - or at least want to think - that he always plays like that.

You know what? Hartnell hadn't scored a goal in like twenty games or something like that. He was surfing around, taking stupid penalties and every Flyers fan wanted to get him benched, much like in Leino's case here. Then came Ville Leino and Scotty Hartnell was put on his line (he had already played with Briere earlier) and he immediately got the goal and has played well with Leino ever since. Your hate and anger is totally blinding your skill to judge the player in this case and it's also leading you to the Dark Side.

Hartnells always been a hard working player though, ur the one being blinded. Ville leino saved scott hartbell LOL. ''Then came ville leino'' lol

Explain why Leino didnt play good in Detroit? Hes a streaky player, but hes nothing special, he will be a 3rd liner for most of his career, or a 2nd liner on a s***ty team.

[Finnish Wing 110]

Hartnells always been a hard working player though, ur the one being blinded. Ville leino saved scott hartbell LOL. ''Then came ville leino'' lol

Explain why Leino didnt play good in Detroit? Hes a streaky player, but hes nothing special, he will be a 3rd liner for most of his career, or a 2nd liner on a s***ty team.

Hartnell totally sucked earlier this season. I think the Flyers fans know better than you do.

Why he didn't play good in Detroit THIS SEASON you mean? There's probably no single reason to explain that. The whole team underachieved at the start of the season. There were injuries and stuff going on and he lost his confidence. Like I said before, you don't just start working hard by snapping your fingers.

Why didn't Dan Cleary play so well in his earlier teams? Why didn't Jussi Jokinen play well in Tampa?

I really don't wish to go through this same conversation over and over again. You've obviously decided that Leino is lazy and sucks no matter what he does. We could ask about it from other teams' fans and I think their opinions would be kinda different.

How can you even say something like "he's a streaky player but nothing special" if you haven't even watched him play a whole season. Like I said, I've watched him since -02. I think I know a little better what he is and what he isn't.

You're just pissed that he sucked here and no you're trying to tell yourself that he's a bad player. I understand it, it's a normal reaction from a fan who lets his emotions control his ability of judgment. I can tell you though, that it wasn't gonna work here so you can just let it go and stop this already.

No matter how hard you try telling it to yourself, it's not gonna chance the facts.

And btw, I'm happy for him to even get to the NHL. That deal is a steal for the Flyers already, no matter if he even becomes a permanent NHLer. Don't you think it would be kinda boring if everyone were Crosby-fans? Also, I could say you're nothing special either. Your just sitting there at home, making s*** up on some internet forum to make yourself feel better.

[Joseph Franks 17]

System my ass.

Which system? The system that nearly missed the playoffs? That can't find solid goaltending for more than a few months at a time? The system that opted out in the second round to a team that went on to get swept? The system where even our all-stars go silent for weeks on end...routinely?

To state that he wouldn't fit our system is basically a cheap way of saying that our system has consistently smothered potential talent, while relying an a consistently old and ever aging core of players, replaced when they reach their last legs by slightly less old players. In 2008 we won because our team was mostly still not old (Our rookies were jumping, and our experience was prime, or at least not past it yet), but our age shows in the past few years more than it has ever before. It shows in our injuries, and the consistency of them, and it shows in our inability to even give a team like SJ a challenge.

Lets be real. Leino looks better right now, than anyone on Detroit looked during our playoff run. It has nothing to do with a system.......it has to do with Leino being given a chance, and capitalizing on that chance. If anything....Leino is often the leading man when he's on the ice these playoffs. We screwed up with quincey, we screwed up with Leino.

Lets just hope we don't kick Abdelkader to the curb too early.

Detroit is basically famous for it's ability to pick out later round draft picks, and mold them into top line guys. But the last few years.....we've been highly impatient with our young talent. Imagine if we had discounted Datsyuk and Zetterberg after their first few playoff performances? Remember against calgary? Those guys might as well have been selling hotdogs in the stands...for all they managed those years.

I was highly disapointed when Leino went, noting that guys like Williams were still making the starting lineup. We need a Bowman clone to act as an advisor on these deals.

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

He'll be alright, likely will never match the level of play he's at right now.

[Joseph Franks 17]

He'll be alright, likely will never match the level of play he's at right now.

In the playoffs right now, I'd rather have 1 Leino, than 2 datsyuks.

Now if we were playing golf, Datsyuk clearly has the head start.

[Opie 308]

umm since when is one season enough time to say if a player will be great or a bust, what if he turns out to be just a decent hockey player, or average or slightly below average?

[Hossa4Life 4]

In the playoffs right now, I'd rather have 1 Leino, than 2 datsyuks.

Now if we were playing golf, Datsyuk clearly has the head start.

you should be banned for such a dumbass comment. Show me the last time leino was in the zone when the other team had the puck. He is a lazy slop who plays no d. I would take 1 datsyuk over any amount of leinos.

[Finnish Wing 110]

you should be banned for such a dumbass comment. Show me the last time leino was in the zone when the other team had the puck. He is a lazy slop who plays no d. I would take 1 datsyuk over any amount of leinos.

He blocked a shot tonight by the way. I think the big difference is that Leino is a winger and Datsyuk is a center. Leino is supposed to defend against the opposition d-men.

[Finnish Wing 110]

One thing I didn't notice was that Leino had a plus minus of +10, which tied 3rd with Sharp after Zetterberg and Campbell.

[Guest EZBAKETHAGANGSTA]

you should be banned for such a dumbass comment. Show me the last time leino was in the zone when the other team had the puck. He is a lazy slop who plays no d. I would take 1 datsyuk over any amount of leinos.

You are without a doubt the funniest poster I've ever seen.

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

umm since when is one season enough time to say if a player will be great or a bust, what if he turns out to be just a decent hockey player, or average or slightly below average?

^ This. Kinda early to do that after just 1 full professional season.

More power to him for doing well in Philadelphia this post season but remember, he barely did squat with Philly to begin with as well as the Wings this season. At the time of the trade, it made sense. Leino was underperforming to begin with, was having trouble cracking the depth chart partially because of lack of production/personnel even with injuries (opinion, not stating as fact so...), so you could possible take the angle that Wings mgmt. did him a favor by giving him an opportunity elsewhere.

[Heroes of Hockeytown 694]

Outside of Pronger I'd say he was Philly's best player in the Finals.

It boggles my mind how he could have been the absolute worst player on the Wings for 42 games, and never even show a hint of what he did this playoff season.

[Finnish Wing 110]

Outside of Pronger I'd say he was Philly's best player in the Finals.

It boggles my mind how he could have been the absolute worst player on the Wings for 42 games, and never even show a hint of what he did this playoff season.

Pronger wasn't really even good in the Finals. Had one terrible game (-5) and nothing too special either. I'd say even Timonen was better than Pronger.

Briere was the number one guy for the MVP and Leino was the second IMO.