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babygorilla

Would a real gritty fighter help or hurt this team?

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This is pretty much my mindset, although my expectations aren't even that lofty - I just want a guy that will go through a wall for his teammates, can play a solid 8 minutes a night, chip in 20+ pts, is solid defensively and doesn't take bad penalties... anything above that is just gravy... can we go into a hottub time machine and get a Brad May in his prime?

I still would love to see us somehow pull a deal and get David Clarkson here from NJ... I wonder what they'd want in exchange for his rights... I wouldn't be surprised at all if at least one team throws an offer sheet at him either this year, which will force NJ's hand to either match, or lose him for draft picks...

EDIT - I know it's a pipe dream, but this is one of the only ways I could see parting with Bert -

lines arbitrary:

Valtteri Filppula ($3.000m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Johan Franzen ($3.955m)

Jiri Hudler ($2.875m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Tomas Holmstrom ($1.875m)

Daniel Cleary ($2.800m) / Justin Abdelkader ($0.920m) / David Clarkson ($2.000m)

Kris Draper ($1.583m) / Darren Helm ($0.630m) / Patrick Eaves ($0.550m)

Mattias Ritola ($0.517m)

Nicklas Lidstrom ($6.200m) / Brian Rafalski ($6.000m)

Brad Stuart ($3.750m) / Niklas Kronwall ($3.000m)

Garnett Exelby ($1.500m) / Jonathan Ericsson ($0.900m)

Jakub Kindl ($0.883m)

Jimmy Howard ($0.717m) / Chris Osgood ($1.417m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS

ROSTER: 22; CAP: $58.0m; PAYROLL: $57.855m; CAP ROOM: $0.145m BONUSES: $0.000m

That roster makes me very happy...

I love these lines

What would be AWESOME is not a Downey/May type player for around 1mil or under but a Mike Richards or Jarome Iginla type player for 4 to 6 mil. We will have to wait until Lids is done but I think a player that can score, hit and fight is what we need.....you know like GORIDE would do.

I would say we just try to steal Chris Stewart if that's what you are looking for

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You can't have a player who just sits on the bench for all but 5 minutes of a game anymore. Everyone has to contribute. If a guy can fight, but chip in some goals and assists, every now and than, bring him on, but if all he does is fight, there is no room on the roster. You wouldn't want him to be in every game, because he wouldn't always be needed. And, you can't always predict exactly which games he would be needed.

Like it or not, the last 4 Wings' teams to win the Cup all had a fighter on the roster during the regular season. As Babcock says, "they keep the flies off" the stars.

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Like it or not, the last 4 Wings' teams to win the Cup all had a fighter on the roster during the regular season. As Babcock says, "they keep the flies off" the stars.

The Wings also had a fighter on the roster this year and they didn't win the Cup. Or does the correlation only work one way?

dobbles likes this

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We don't need a guy who will play 5 minutes a game and just fight but at the same time we don't need a guy who is going to score 10 goals a season and fight heavyweights. Our third liners barely scored 10 goals this year guys so for a guy to scrap heavyweights and score 10 goals would be pretty damn good.

We need to get a player or two who can fight but skate pretty well, make a break out pass, hit and be defensively responsible. We don't need fighters that score, we need fighters who will fit a role on the PK or can just play a solid 10 minutes a night without getting burned all the time.

25 points from a good fighter is a lot to ask for a cheap contract but for around 800k we could get a solid player that is good defensively, kills penalties and wills tick up for his team. Thos offseason has A LOT of good fits to make this team harder to play against.

Exactly. Someone on the team has to play less than 10-15 min a night in order for the other (better) players to get their time in as well. There are a lot of good UFA and RFA fighters available this off-season, and I hope the Wings can pick up someone that skates well, is defensively responsible, and can get in 10+ fights if needed. The problem with the better players that everyone wants (3rd+ liners), is that they hurt the team when they fights because they are key players. If May fights, the forth line was probably unlikely to see time during that 5 min anyways. If a third liner fights, that line is now changed for 1-2 shifts. Also, these players are never (rarely) the toughest on their team. Toughness should be addressed from the forth line out IMO.

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The Wings also had a fighter on the roster this year and they didn't win the Cup. Or does the correlation only work one way?

Think the 'fighter' thing only applies if said 'fighter' is good enough to crack the lineup. Just sayin'.

That said, I shall take Asham for 1.5 or so. That shall fit just nicely.

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Give me a roster that has toughness up and down the lineup over a single 4th line "enforcer" who glares at players he never matches up against and who fights other enforcers.

Aka, when talent starts to falter, make up for it in grit, which would be a good mindset for Kenny in the coming years.

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Couldnt hurt. I'd love to see Nystrom here as the 4th line guy, he can pay 10-15 minutes effectively. Torres would be an alright option too, but he was benched in the playoffs this year and that isnt super appealing. I wish there was a Drake like guy in the offseason we could get, older guy, played alot of years without a Cup who just puts his body on the line for the team. I'd love Owen Nolan, but I think he isnt a viable option, whether it be money or age, but I'd love to see it haha.

And I really think we'll be fine for physicality toughness if Kenny brings in a couple guys and re-signs Bert, Abby, Helm and Eaves. None of them are super tough, but they can hit, they can fight, and I've never seen more players skate away from Bertuzzi as soon as he comes into a scrum. If Holland can add a Nystrom/Torres type up front and an Exelby/Sutton type on the backend, we're as tough or tougher then the Cup winning team from 08.

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Did dressing fighter Riley Cote for half the season hurt the Flyers?

I think the wings are good enough to be able to give some thug (like May) 4 mninutes a night throught most of the regular season and still make the playoffs (where said thug's services are less likely to be needed). The presence of a low-talent fighter on a team in the regular season doesn't seem to have a clear effect on the success of a team. It doesn't help much, doesn't hurt much, but it will usually provide a bit of fun in November when the susperstars are coasting, so I'm all for it.

What a stupid comment...

What's wrong with Carcillo, Asham, Lappy and Hartnell???

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Couldnt hurt. I'd love to see Nystrom here as the 4th line guy, he can pay 10-15 minutes effectively. Torres would be an alright option too, but he was benched in the playoffs this year and that isnt super appealing. I wish there was a Drake like guy in the offseason we could get, older guy, played alot of years without a Cup who just puts his body on the line for the team. I'd love Owen Nolan, but I think he isnt a viable option, whether it be money or age, but I'd love to see it haha.

And I really think we'll be fine for physicality toughness if Kenny brings in a couple guys and re-signs Bert, Abby, Helm and Eaves. None of them are super tough, but they can hit, they can fight, and I've never seen more players skate away from Bertuzzi as soon as he comes into a scrum. If Holland can add a Nystrom/Torres type up front and an Exelby/Sutton type on the backend, we're as tough or tougher then the Cup winning team from 08.

Do you really expect our forth line to get 10-15 min of playing time a game? Unless the player is a PK'er (and there are a lot of penalties), this is very unlikely. Also, Helm doesn't fight.

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Do you really expect our forth line to get 10-15 min of playing time a game? Unless the player is a PK'er (and there are a lot of penalties), this is very unlikely. Also, Helm doesn't fight.

I dont, but that's what people seem to want. If he's only gonna play 6-8 minutes then he'll florish. Nystrom played on the Flames 3rd line at times but he's a 4th liner. I think he's a perfect fit. I know Helm doesnt fight haha, but he more then makes up for it with his speed and physicality.

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The Wings also had a fighter on the roster this year and they didn't win the Cup. Or does the correlation only work one way?

I never said having a fighter guaranteed a cup. I said the last four times the wings won a cup they had a fighter on their roster during the regular season. There's a big difference there.

Btw, May played less than half the season in Detroit this year.

Someone mentioned that it does no good to have a guy on the fourth line that only plays five minutes a game. Several times this past year a fourth liner, who wasn't a fighter, played VERY sparingly during a game. It's not uncommon for a fourth liner to play 5-10 minutes a game. Personally, I'd rather that person be a big person that scares people than a person like Maltby.

Give me a roster that has toughness up and down the lineup over a single 4th line "enforcer" who glares at players he never matches up against and who fights other enforcers.

Aka, when talent starts to falter, make up for it in grit, which would be a good mindset for Kenny in the coming years.

I agree.

Although I'd like that one big scary guy just in case.

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I dont, but that's what people seem to want. If he's only gonna play 6-8 minutes then he'll florish. Nystrom played on the Flames 3rd line at times but he's a 4th liner. I think he's a perfect fit. I know Helm doesnt fight haha, but he more then makes up for it with his speed and physicality.

I just realized that Leino kind of looks like Phil Anselmo from Pantera with that beard on his face.

:scared:

Scary avatar.

Edited by GMRwings1983

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Don't care so much about the fights. Wouldn't mind seeing a fighter on Detroit, but hits and shots blocked are critical to todays game.

I'd be happy with Nystrom of that list. Not the greatest number of hits, but his shot blocking would be useful in the playoffs, pending he can step up that aspect of his game when it counts. It's tough to find "good" shot blockers these days.

The Wings also had a fighter on the roster this year and they didn't win the Cup. Or does the correlation only work one way?

We did?

No for real.....yahoo fantasy league doesn't count.

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I'm all for the Red Wings being a winning team, but a part of me wants to see them really stick up for themselves too. I don't want a straight-up goon, but someone who'll punish other players and drop the gloves once in awhile would be really exciting to me.

And no, I won't go become a Flyers fan, lol.

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Like it or not, the last 4 Wings' teams to win the Cup all had a fighter on the roster during the regular season. As Babcock says, "they keep the flies off" the stars.

Yes... The Red Wings need a fighter.

However there's no room for a full-time fighter under today's cap. The person Ken needs to find is a Fighter with a two-way contract (regardless of age or seniority). It will allow Babcock to pull them up on a regular basis (once every few games) for the occasional thug team during the regular season, give the same effect to the Griffins, and full-time availability for the playoffs.

The problem is that this is sorta of hard to come by, as people in this position are usually on their way up, or down in their career and are only available for 1-2 seasons. Kenny rightfully doesn't seem willing to bring one on full-time (especially looking at Downey).

Edited by CaliWingsNut

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we dont need another brad may

Are you kidding!?! I loved watching all those staged fights that had absolutely no impact on the final result. Great times! :ph34r:

It would be nice to have a fighter that can score and play a decent two-way game... but doesn't every team?

Edited by Broken 16

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Like it or not, the last 4 Wings' teams to win the Cup all had a fighter on the roster during the regular season. As Babcock says, "they keep the flies off" the stars.

I did not say that the Wings' should not have a fighter on the team. I said if they do, they need one who can contribute in other areas, not just the fists. You do remember that there used to be 24 roster spots; now only 23. There used to be no salary cap; now there is one. You can't have a guy sitting on your roster, waiting for certain games, where there may be a fight. And, the guys you were talking about? I assume you mean Joey Kocur, who had key goals in the 97 finals versus Philadelphia. McCarty had the hat trick against Colorado in the Conference Finals in 02. Dallas Drake also contributed points in 08 playoffs.

I think you are just proving my point. I like fighting. Never said any differently. I just said they have to contribute, especially in this era. The guys you are inferring did just that.

Give me a roster that has toughness up and down the lineup over a single 4th line "enforcer" who glares at players he never matches up against and who fights other enforcers.

Aka, when talent starts to falter, make up for it in grit, which would be a good mindset for Kenny in the coming years.

Well said.

stevkrause likes this

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Are you kidding!?! I loved watching all those staged fights that had absolutely no impact on the final result. Great times! :ph34r:

It would be nice to have a fighter that can score and play a decent two-way game... but doesn't every team?

Doesn't every team have a fighter?

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I did not say that the Wings' should not have a fighter on the team. I said if they do, they need one who can contribute in other areas, not just the fists. You do remember that there used to be 24 roster spots; now only 23. There used to be no salary cap; now there is one. You can't have a guy sitting on your roster, waiting for certain games, where there may be a fight. And, the guys you were talking about? I assume you mean Joey Kocur, who had key goals in the 97 finals versus Philadelphia. McCarty had the hat trick against Colorado in the Conference Finals in 02. Dallas Drake also contributed points in 08 playoffs.

I think you are just proving my point. I like fighting. Never said any differently. I just said they have to contribute, especially in this era. The guys you are inferring did just that.

:clap: :clap: :clap:

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