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Fire sale in Chicago?

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Ok. Second try at this. Im reading through Hawks forums and they are talking about packaging two of Versteeg, Byfuglian, and Bolland with Huet and basically giving those players to some team. I think this is unlikely to happen, but for the sake of this thread, I'll GIVE them that. I also trade Sopel.

Ill add in the $4 million in bonuses but subtract $2 for the cap going up which is being generous.

Hahaha. Still $-1.281 over. Maybe they forget about Niemi and just go with an inexperiecne goalie.

AUTO-GENERATED CAPGEEK.COM LINES

FORWARDS

Jonathan Toews ($6.300m) / Patrick Kane ($6.300m) / Marian Hossa ($5.275m)

Patrick Sharp ($3.900m) / Dave Bolland ($3.375m) / Kyle Beach ($1.200m)

Tomas Kopecky ($1.200m) / Troy Brouwer ($1.025m) / * Jack Skille ($1.000m)

* ($0.550m) / * ($0.550m) / * ($0.550m)

* ($0.550m) / * ($0.550m)

DEFENSEMEN

Brian Campbell ($7.143m) / Duncan Keith ($5.538m)

Brent Seabrook ($3.500m) / * Niklas Hjalmarsson ($2.500m)

* Jordan Hendry ($0.750m) / * ($0.550m)

* ($0.550m)

GOALTENDERS

* Antti Niemi ($3.000m) / * ($0.550m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS

(these totals are compiled using the bonus cushion)

ROSTER: 23; CAP: $58.8m; PAYROLL: $56.406m; CAP ROOM: $-1.281m BONUSES: $0.325m

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The bonuses to Toews and Kane are killer. Enjoy your Cup Hawks fans. Your team is gonna look VERY different next year and are coming back to the pack.

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Im reading through Hawks forums and they are talking about packaging two of Versteeg, Byfuglian, and Bolland with Huet and basically giving those players to some team.

Actually, someone out there might be willing to bite on Huet if he comes with a free Versteeg. Versteeg would be payment for them eating Huet's brutal contract and would probably be just the kind of thing someone would be willing to do just to get Versteeg. A team like Atlanta might do something like that just because they have the cap room and Versteeg is a good young player.

Lidstrom for life likes this

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Actually, someone out there might be willing to bite on Huet if he comes with a free Versteeg. Versteeg would be payment for them eating Huet's brutal contract and would probably be just the kind of thing someone would be willing to do just to get Versteeg. A team like Atlanta might do something like that just because they have the cap room and Versteeg is a good young player.

Yeah but I think if Huet clears waivers, which he will, they can just send him to the AHL and not have his contract on the books.

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Yeah but I think if Huet clears waivers, which he will, they can just send him to the AHL and not have his contract on the books.

I could be wrong, but I do believe that a 1 way contract still counts against the Cap? Maybe... I do know if someone claims him on re-entry waivers Chicago is accountable for half that cap hit for the entire contract... Either way Chicago gambled and won the battle, but are going to lose the war and there wont be a repeat next year. I believe its Ovechkin's turn to win the Cup...

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Yeah but I think if Huet clears waivers, which he will, they can just send him to the AHL and not have his contract on the books.

I don't buy that theory. Why didn't Anaheim do that with Giggy? Why is Ottawa preparing to buy Cheechoo out instead of just keeping him in the minors?

If Chicago does that to Huet they'll be lucky if they ever sign a major FA in the next decade. Player's won't forget that treatment.

I could be wrong, but I do believe that a 1 way contract still counts against the Cap? Maybe... I do know if someone claims him on re-entry waivers Chicago is accountable for half that cap hit for the entire contract... Either way Chicago gambled and won the battle, but are going to lose the war and there wont be a repeat next year. I believe its Ovechkin's turn to win the Cup...

Nope. If you're in the AHL you don't count against the cap. 1 way just means you get paid the NHL salary no matter where you're playing (AHL or NHL).

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Nope. If you're in the AHL you don't count against the cap. 1 way just means you get paid the NHL salary no matter where you're playing (AHL or NHL).

there are separate rules regarding cap hits for the season, and cap hits for the offseason

In the offseason, Huet's contract will still count against the cap, even if they plan to send him to the minors. I've been reading on the HF boards that in the off season, if a player is on a one-way contract, his cap hit will still count against the salary cap, even if he is stuck in the minors. during the offseason, teams can go over the cap, but by no more than 10% of the salary cap (section 50.5,( c )(2)(B).

now look at this is under section 50.5, (d)(i)(A) of the CBA, here is the link

CBA from NHL.com

(A) From July 1 until and including the last day of Training

Camp of each League Year, "Averaged Club Salary" for

each Club for that League Year shall be calculated as the

sum of the Player Salary and Bonuses for that League Year

for each and every Player, from the following categories:

(1) The Averaged Amount of the Player Salary and

Bonuses for that League Year for each Player under

a One-Way SPC with the Club;

there is a lot more to it, but this explains that Huet's contract (since it is one way) will still count against the cap in the offseason even if he is buried in witness protection. it's only when the season starts will Huet's contract not count against the cap. but by then, most of the players would have signed with other clubs, and i don't think a team wants to sign players after training camp ends.

I don't buy that theory. Why didn't Anaheim do that with Giggy? Why is Ottawa preparing to buy Cheechoo out instead of just keeping him in the minors?

so, as to why Ottawa is buying out Cheechoo's contract, my guess is its to free up cap space to sign players this offseason. If they want to bury him in the minors, his cap will still count against the cap in the offseason, and they lose the $3.5 million in space to sign someone else in the offseason. Buying him out now gives them some cap space that they will not get until after the end of training camp, if they sent him to the minors

This is the first i've heard of these separate rules for the offseason, but if its true (and i think it is since its written in the CBA), the hawks cap is even more screwed than i initially thought

Edited by jeff48109

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I don't buy that theory. Why didn't Anaheim do that with Giggy? Why is Ottawa preparing to buy Cheechoo out instead of just keeping him in the minors?

As far as Giguere, I'll suggest the following:

Burke had Vesa Toskala, who was spreading suck sauce across the ice and dragging the team down when he played. Toskala had a $4m cap hit. Anaheim wanted to unload Giguere, but wanted to get some value back rather than just waive him. So Toronto and Anaheim were perfect trading partners, with Toronto basically trading underachieving winger Jason Blake to Anaheim for Giguere, and getting Toskala out of town in the deal. Anaheim stays basically cap-even as they flipped Toskala to Calgary later on for Curtis McElhinney. Toronto cuts down their cap hit and gets a good mentor for their young goaltender, and Anaheim gets deeper at forward while cutting down their long-term cap hit and moving out their $6m backup.

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Didn't the Leafs have two players a few years back that had 35 plus contracts they wanted to dump? Can't remember their names but one was sent to the minors (Russian?) and the other went LTD.

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there are separate rules regarding cap hits for the season, and cap hits for the offseason

In the offseason, Huet's contract will still count against the cap, even if they plan to send him to the minors. I've been reading on the HF boards that in the off season, if a player is on a one-way contract, his cap hit will still count against the salary cap, even if he is stuck in the minors. during the offseason, teams can go over the cap, but by no more than 10% of the salary cap (section 50.5,( c )(2)(B).

now look at this is under section 50.5, (d)(i)(A) of the CBA, here is the link

CBA from NHL.com

there is a lot more to it, but this explains that Huet's contract (since it is one way) will still count against the cap in the offseason even if he is buried in witness protection. it's only when the season starts will Huet's contract not count against the cap. but by then, most of the players would have signed with other clubs, and i don't think a team wants to sign players after training camp ends.

so, as to why Ottawa is buying out Cheechoo's contract, my guess is its to free up cap space to sign players this offseason. If they want to bury him in the minors, his cap will still count against the cap in the offseason, and they lose the $3.5 million in space to sign someone else in the offseason. Buying him out now gives them some cap space that they will not get until after the end of training camp, if they sent him to the minors

This is the first i've heard of these separate rules for the offseason, but if its true (and i think it is since its written in the CBA), the hawks cap is even more screwed than i initially thought

If I were Bowman, I would do what I have suggested in the past for other cap-crunched teams, and use a technique that has been implemented multiple times by Lou Lamoirello.

"13.21 (a) When a Club desires to terminate a Player's SPC for any reason, such

action may not be taken until Unconditional Waivers have been requested and cleared in

conformity with this Article. Notwithstanding this provision, a Player with a no-move

clause shall have the rights set forth in Section 11.8."

The Hawks could place Huet on Unconditional Waivers and if he goes unclaimed, they can simply terminate the contract. Remember when Shanny signed with the Devils and then didn't play for them, and his contract didn't count against their cap? That's how it was done. They can do the same to Campbell if necessary.

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If I were Bowman, I would do what I have suggested in the past for other cap-crunched teams, and use a technique that has been implemented multiple times by Lou Lamoirello.

"13.21 (a) When a Club desires to terminate a Player's SPC for any reason, such

action may not be taken until Unconditional Waivers have been requested and cleared in

conformity with this Article. Notwithstanding this provision, a Player with a no-move

clause shall have the rights set forth in Section 11.8."

The Hawks could place Huet on Unconditional Waivers and if he goes unclaimed, they can simply terminate the contract. Remember when Shanny signed with the Devils and then didn't play for them, and his contract didn't count against their cap? That's how it was done. They can do the same to Campbell if necessary.

Step one to building a dominant franchise- Loyalty

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Step one to building a dominant franchise- Loyalty

Is Step two make Hudler, Williams and Kopecky franchise players up front and then Meech on the back end?

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If I were Bowman, I would do what I have suggested in the past for other cap-crunched teams, and use a technique that has been implemented multiple times by Lou Lamoirello.

"13.21 (a) When a Club desires to terminate a Player's SPC for any reason, such

action may not be taken until Unconditional Waivers have been requested and cleared in

conformity with this Article. Notwithstanding this provision, a Player with a no-move

clause shall have the rights set forth in Section 11.8."

The Hawks could place Huet on Unconditional Waivers and if he goes unclaimed, they can simply terminate the contract. Remember when Shanny signed with the Devils and then didn't play for them, and his contract didn't count against their cap? That's how it was done. They can do the same to Campbell if necessary.

isn't unconditional waiver just a pre-cursor to a buyout, if the player is unclaimed?

Edited by jeff48109

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Step one to building a dominant franchise- Loyalty

If the Hawks sign their core players, who have proven themselves as quality players, to long term contracts with decent cap hits, then they won't have to worry about signing big name FAs, which is what everyone keeps saying is the reason they can't simply waive Huet and Campbell. Byfuglien, Seabrook, and Brouwer are all RFA after 2010-11, as well as Corey Crawford, who likely backs up if Huet is disposed of. Versteeg is RFA after 11-12. Kopecky is UFA after next season, and Sharp the season after.

So any perception of a lack of loyalty to Campbell and Huet can be painted over by loyalty to the players they have who will be free agents, with regards to how they treat them.

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If the Hawks sign their core players, who have proven themselves as quality players, to long term contracts with decent cap hits, then they won't have to worry about signing big name FAs, which is what everyone keeps saying is the reason they can't simply waive Huet and Campbell. Byfuglien, Seabrook, and Brouwer are all RFA after 2010-11, as well as Corey Crawford, who likely backs up if Huet is disposed of. Versteeg is RFA after 11-12. Kopecky is UFA after next season, and Sharp the season after.

So any perception of a lack of loyalty to Campbell and Huet can be painted over by loyalty to the players they have who will be free agents, with regards to how they treat them.

So the logic here is: I can be a dick to people I don't like as long as I'm not a dick to people I need because people don't care if I'm a dick anyway?

Drake - nice work on putting together a "roster" :)

;) The Hawks should totally hire me as their capologist. And for the record I'd wear a different Wings jersey to work every day.

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Although they're gonna lose a significant amount of talent this offseason,their core is still gonna be solid with Toews,Seabrook,Kane,Hossa,and Keith.

That actually is part of the problem. The Hawks are in trouble not only for this year but also for 2011-12. In fact that may actually be the bigger concern because Seabrook and Byfuglien will both be RFA's (as will Brouer) and the Hawks will once again have no cap space. So that core will likely be further diminished (additionally the only UFA's that will come off the books next year will be Sopel and Kopecky and won't offer much cap relief). It may be a rough couple of years.

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By the way-- turns out that the Hawks have to pay $4,000,000 in bonuses as a result of their victory and every penny will be counted towards their cap next season.

:lol:

Here's the source:

I thought those bonuses already counted towards the cap this year? I remember seeing Kanes and Towes cap hit at ~$2m mark on capgeek but their base was only $850k the max for an entry level contract. All this cap crap is so confusing to me.

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Well, for all of what amounts to a lot of wishful thinking by Wings fans, that the Hawks get ripped apart and become one season wonders, anybody care to put their money where their mouth is? Anybody care to make a prediction for the Hawks for next season and the season next?

Here's mine: Hawks will compete for Central title both years. Hawks will make playoffs both years. Hawks will reach Conference Finals at least one more time in the next two seasons.

Anybody else care to put a prediction out there for the record?

I'm not sure if I can count newfy's statement "The hawks are absolutely f***ed next season" as I don't know what that means? Does that mean they won't make the playoffs?

Edited by GordieSid&Ted

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I thought those bonuses already counted towards the cap this year? I remember seeing Kanes and Towes cap hit at ~$2m mark on capgeek but their base was only $850k the max for an entry level contract. All this cap crap is so confusing to me.

That's because its the last year of their ELC- their big money contract extensions signed ~6 months ago kick in next season. The cap hit is the average value of the contract, so a 3 year contract paying $3M, $2M and $1M would have a cap hit of $2M each year.

The bonuses would go on this years salary, but they have no room under the cap, so it has to go on next season.

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Well, for all of what amounts to a lot of wishful thinking by Wings fans, that the Hawks get ripped apart and become one season wonders, anybody care to put their money where their mouth is? Anybody care to make a prediction for the Hawks for next season and the season next?

Here's mine: Hawks will compete for Central title both years. Hawks will make playoffs both years. Hawks will reach Conference Finals at least one more time in the next two seasons.

Anybody else care to put a prediction out there for the record?

I'm not sure if I can count newfy's statement "The hawks are absolutely f***ed next season" as I don't know what that means? Does that mean they won't make the playoffs?

I don't think the perception is that the Hawks will win 10 games next year or anything like that (at least that is not my perception). They will still be a good team, it is just that they will lose a lot of their depth and a few core players that will take them from being the hands down favorite to win the Cup (as they were this year before the season even started) to being a good team that if they get on a roll might have a chance at winning it all. They will still do well probably compete for the Central Division but won't run away with anything and may struggle quite a bit at times. It is similar (although I think a fair bit worse) than the problem that Detroit had this year. They will lose guys who will expose holes in the team (for example the importance that Sammy had here) and their margin of error related to injuries or slumps will be greatly diminished. It is not that they will be competing in the draft lottery next year rather than competing in the playoffs but rather that they have been pulled back into the well above average pack of teams and will have to fight much harder next year for any success that they achieve.

HankthaTank and Veery like this

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isn't unconditional waiver just a pre-cursor to a buyout, if the player is unclaimed?

They cannot terminate his contract. They must buy him out.

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They cannot terminate his contract. They must buy him out.

thats what i thought. they cant make Huet's contract disappear.

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That's because its the last year of their ELC- their big money contract extensions signed ~6 months ago kick in next season. The cap hit is the average value of the contract, so a 3 year contract paying $3M, $2M and $1M would have a cap hit of $2M each year.

The bonuses would go on this years salary, but they have no room under the cap, so it has to go on next season.

Yes I know the average is what counts against the cap. But their cap hit for each was about $2m. What I am saying is if the base max is $850k for ELC why was their cap hit ~$2m? That has to include their goal, assist, points bonuses right into the cap number, right?

Edited by dragonballgtz

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