Cuts Continue for Hawks - Fraser Sent to Edmonton

[eva unit zero 271]

I laugh at the "Hawks traded their future!" thing.

The Hawks traded a forward who was scratched for almost the entire playoff runs the past two seasons. He is also an RFA and would not have been on the regular roster this coming season anway, given the cheaper, better players the Hawks do or will have.

Ben Eager is the same thing. The Hawks getting value for nothing. It would be like the Wings trading the rights to Ole-Kristian Tollefson. He's NEVER going to play a game for Detroit. Detroit only took him as cap relief for Philly so they could take on Leino; and in turn Detroit because he immediately went to Grand Rapids because Leino was only traded to activate Franzen. Tollefson=bag of pucks as far as that deal was concerned. Philly didn't care about giving him up, and Detroit didn't care about taking him on.

If the Hawks had traded Toews for a 3rd round pick, THEN you could make the "future" argument. But he's signed for long enough that he will be a bargain at that price for most of his deal. Kane might never really be worth it, but he's a flashy goal scorer so he can be dealt for much more than he's worth if Bowman or his successor is ever willing to trade the stupid f*****.

[hudson 4]

No one's denying its a workable roster. The point is the Hawks are not going to be nearly as strong next year, especially come April/May when secondary scoring becomes absolutely crucial. Hell, look up and down the roster you just posted and notice the incredible difference from last season.

I don't think its "incredibly" different. Certainly not as strong but the Cap is the Cap. What are you going to do.

Versteeg,talented but maddeningly inconsistent. As likely turn the puck over at the wrong time as he was to score a game winner. The Hawks would love to keep him but somebody has to go.

Madden, Marty Reasoner is close enough and cheaper.

Byfuglien, I don't he ever will reach his potential consistently and they got enough back for him.

Kopecky, well you guys know about Kopecky. He may or may not be back. Just example salary vs talent that the hawks may have to move.

Sopel, to expensive. Real good penalty killer but just painful to watch skate.

Huet, I'd rather have Crawford.

Johnsson, never played for the Hawks much because of a concussion. Don't think they will miss what hthey never really had.

Burish and Eager, good to have them but it is time for some of the kids from Rockford to get a chance.

Boynton was a lot better than I thought he would be. Maybe they can figure out a way to bring him back. If not oh well.

vs

Kyle Beach, 1st round pick that might be ready

jack skille, 1st round pick that IS ready

Bryan Bickell, was up with Hawks the end of last year and played well

Jake Dowell, has been up and down with Hawks

Shawn Lalonde, suppose to be ready. Hawks seem real high on him.

Corey Crawford, now or never. Barely beat out by Niemi last training camp.

[Original-Six 254]

So far all they have lost is Buffs 34 regular season points, 2 4th liners who at times couldnt even crack the lineup, and an aging overpaid, slow #6 defensemen.

Not to mention Buffs 11 playoff goals (tied for first on team) and 5 game winners....no big deal.

Edited June 24, 2010 by Original-Six

[HankthaTank 1,100]

So far all they have lost is Buffs

So far indeed.... July 1st looms like a black cloud.

[Dave82RWS 41]

Not to mention Buffs 11 playoff goals (tied for first on team) and 5 game winners....no big deal.

I thought he sucks.

Seriously though, no hawk fans wanted to see him go for that very reason. He is an unmovable object in front of the net and is a very beneficial player to have in the playoffs. That will be hard to replace but its not impossible to compete without him.

[zata20 4]

Madden, Marty Reasoner is close enough and cheaper.

I think you are underestimating John Madden. Madden has 3 cups and a selke to boot. While he may have slowed down a bit, he still is probably one of the top 10-15 defensive forwards in the game.

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

I don't think its "incredibly" different. Certainly not as strong but the Cap is the Cap. What are you going to do.

Versteeg,talented but maddeningly inconsistent. As likely turn the puck over at the wrong time as he was to score a game winner. The Hawks would love to keep him but somebody has to go.

Then you're wearing colored glasses. The point is the bottom half up-front is going to struggle and that's one of (if not) the most important things come playoff time. If you're satisfied with a team that going to compete in the regular season, make it to the playoffs possibly in the top 4, then bow out because their bottom-6 up front not only can't keep the puck out of the net, but can't put it in....be my guest.

Red Wings fans who've been around for a while know all to well about a team that does well in the regular season and bottoms out once April rolls around. The roster the Blackhawks are going to have next year is a spinning image of that.

[Original-Six 254]

but its not impossible to compete without him.

Of course they can but it really sucks for them that hes gone. Its not like they can just go out and pluck another 257 pound power forward from the next draft.

[eva unit zero 271]

Not to mention Buffs 11 playoff goals (tied for first on team) and 5 game winners....no big deal.

The Wings lost 66 goals from 08-09 to 09-10 in the regular season. Consider about 40 more pro-rated between Franzen and Holmstrom if healthy, minus 6 from Williams if he's scratched for terrible play as a result, and minus 3 from Abdelkader, who would have spent more of the year in Grand Rapids. So that's a loss of about 30-35 over 82 games. Pavel Datsyuk and Henrik Zetterberg combined for 13 fewer goals than the previous season. Bertuzzi scored 5 fewer than Hudler. So 7-12 goals difference if equally healthy. Chicago will survive, don't worry.

[hockey23 79]

The Wings lost 66 goals from 08-09 to 09-10 in the regular season. Consider about 40 more pro-rated between Franzen and Holmstrom if healthy, minus 6 from Williams if he's scratched for terrible play as a result, and minus 3 from Abdelkader, who would have spent more of the year in Grand Rapids. So that's a loss of about 30-35 over 82 games. Pavel Datsyuk and Henrik Zetterberg combined for 13 fewer goals than the previous season. Bertuzzi scored 5 fewer than Hudler. So 7-12 goals difference if equally healthy. Chicago will survive, don't worry.

uhh...one game from stanley cup to second round exit. Big difference to me.

The Hawks will survive but they will be reduced to a core instead of having incredible forward depth.

Edited June 24, 2010 by hockey23

[newfy 695]

I laugh at the "Hawks traded their future!" thing.

The Hawks traded a forward who was scratched for almost the entire playoff runs the past two seasons. He is also an RFA and would not have been on the regular roster this coming season anway, given the cheaper, better players the Hawks do or will have.

Ben Eager is the same thing. The Hawks getting value for nothing. It would be like the Wings trading the rights to Ole-Kristian Tollefson. He's NEVER going to play a game for Detroit. Detroit only took him as cap relief for Philly so they could take on Leino; and in turn Detroit because he immediately went to Grand Rapids because Leino was only traded to activate Franzen. Tollefson=bag of pucks as far as that deal was concerned. Philly didn't care about giving him up, and Detroit didn't care about taking him on.

If the Hawks had traded Toews for a 3rd round pick, THEN you could make the "future" argument. But he's signed for long enough that he will be a bargain at that price for most of his deal. Kane might never really be worth it, but he's a flashy goal scorer so he can be dealt for much more than he's worth if Bowman or his successor is ever willing to trade the stupid f*****.

Ben Eager and Tollefson are very different. Eager played all playoffs, is a big hitter and will fight anyone as well as chip in with really good offense for a 4th liner. He played in most if not all the playoff games this year on the way to a cup.

I'm not saying this is a huge loss but to compare him to OKT is stupid.

[hudson 4]

Then you're wearing colored glasses. The point is the bottom half up-front is going to struggle and that's one of (if not) the most important things come playoff time. If you're satisfied with a team that going to compete in the regular season, make it to the playoffs possibly in the top 4, then bow out because their bottom-6 up front not only can't keep the puck out of the net, but can't put it in....be my guest.

Red Wings fans who've been around for a while know all to well about a team that does well in the regular season and bottoms out once April rolls around. The roster the Blackhawks are going to have next year is a spinning image of that.

I don't think I can agree with you that the 3rd and 4th lines are automatically going to struggle. Brouwer and Bolland are 3rd liners most any team would be happy with. They need Skille or somebody else to show up and play well. If the the 4th line is a "energy" line than Bickell and Dowell and Reasoner should be able to fulfill tat role well enough. How much does most 4th lines play in the playoffs? 4 or 5 shifts a game?

Edited June 24, 2010 by hudson

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

I don't think I can agree with you that the 3rd and 4th lines are automatically going to struggle. Brouwer and Bolland are 3rd liners most any team would be happy with. They need Skille or somebody else to show up and play well. If the the 4th line is a "energy" line than Bickell and Dowell and Reasoner should be able to fulfill tat role well enough. How much does most 4th lines play in the playoffs? 4 or 5 shifts a game?

Teams that are *successful* in the playoffs typically roll them the first couple periods atleast. If you don't see how valuable the bottom 6 are just wait until April/May rolls around and we'll continue this conversation.

[HankthaTank 1,100]

just wait until April/May rolls around

What the majority of Hawks "fans" do anyway...

[hooon 1,089]

So the hawks firesale has included 2 4th liners, one who couldnt even crack the lineup the past 2 post seasons,and another who has a history of concussion problems, a #6 at best defensemen who cant skate and may be in his last year, and also made way too much money, and Dustin Byfuglien, who has had 3 or 4 good playoff series out of the 7 the past 2 years the hawks have been in, and who during the regular season has limited production and a certain laziness about him.

In return, the hawks get a top prospect, Maddens replacemnet (If they even keep Reasoner), a 1st round pick, a second round pick, and a 6th round pick. Also, Atlanta has eased the hawks cap woes significantly to the point that after Huet is traded/buried/ or bought out, the only other move that might need to be made would be to trade Versteeg.

They will also now be able to sign Hjalmarsson, Niemi and probably Ladd, and depending on how much, could mean plenty of room for a couple free agent dmen.

They might actually end up better than this past season.

I disagree with everyone bashing Byfuglien. He puts up pretty decent points during the season, and for a lot his career was only on the 3rd line. He is surprisingly quick for his size, and has decent hands. He might be slightly overpriced, but who on the Hawks isn't?

I think his lost will hurt the Hawks quite a bit, he filled an important role. I'm looking to see Versteeg on the way out as well.

[hudson 4]

Teams that are *successful* in the playoffs typically roll them the first couple periods atleast. If you don't see how valuable the bottom 6 are just wait until April/May rolls around and we'll continue this conversation.

I actually do understand the advantage of being able to roll 4 lines. But my point was that Brouwer/Bolland/Whomever will be a decent 3rd line. The TOI for the Hawks 4th line in the finals was something like eager 4:48, madden 10:36, burrish/brouwer 6:00 per game. I think they will be able to find a couple players from the their Rockford team or veterans trying to restart their careers to eat those minutes.

[Broken 16 381]

I actually do understand the advantage of being able to roll 4 lines. But my point was that Brouwer/Bolland/Whomever will be a decent 3rd line. The TOI for the Hawks 4th line in the finals was something like eager 4:48, madden 10:36, burrish/brouwer 6:00 per game. I think they will be able to find a couple players from the their Rockford team or veterans trying to restart their careers to eat those minutes.

You greatly underestimate the importance of team chemistry. Winning a Cup is a LOT more than just names on the roster and how they compare statistically. Right now, the Hawks have great chemistry. Every player they lose, 4th line scrub or not, is gonna affect your teams chemistry. If you gut a roster, even if it's just the bottom 6, it's going to affect your chemistry. It's been a long time since you guys had to deal with a glut of talent... you'll see.

Edited June 24, 2010 by Broken 16

[Frozen-Man 144]

So far all they have lost is Buffs 34 regular season points, 2 4th liners who at times couldnt even crack the lineup, and an aging overpaid, slow #6 defensemen.

I guess they didn't lose his 11 playoff goals in 22 playoff games (tied for 1st on his team and 3rd in the NHL)

Nobody knew 2 years ago who Buff was, Brouwer, Bolland, Versteeg, Keith, Seabrook, Hjalmarsson etc. Who is to say that Jack Skille, or Kyle Beach or any other younGER player coming up wont be productive, such as the prospect they just got from Atlanta, or future draft picks?

Who cares if they knew his name 2 years ago, they traded the current player not the player from two years ago, they traded a known quantity for a possibility.

uhh...one game from stanley cup to second round exit. Big difference to me.

The Hawks will survive but they will be reduced to a core instead of having incredible forward depth.

Exactly, I don't think anyone is suggesting that the Hawks will be a draft lottery team next year but merely that they won't be the elite team that they were this year. They will likely go from elite to above average.

[Dave82RWS 41]

So what did and what does that mean the wings are?

[Frozen-Man 144]

So what did and what does that mean the wings are?

It is similar, the Wings were the very elite and became above average, however, the Wings did not hamstring themselves near as badly as Chicago has.

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

I actually do understand the advantage of being able to roll 4 lines. But my point was that Brouwer/Bolland/Whomever will be a decent 3rd line. The TOI for the Hawks 4th line in the finals was something like eager 4:48, madden 10:36, burrish/brouwer 6:00 per game. I think they will be able to find a couple players from the their Rockford team or veterans trying to restart their careers to eat those minutes.

As Broken 16 stated, not only are you not factoring in the chemistry lost, you're missing the boat on other key factors as well. Chiicago is gonna have to deal with another challenge next season that they haven't had to deal with in almost 50 years. Every team that plays them will gear up for it simply because everyone wants to play well against the defending champions.

As I've mentioned before, Chicago is most certainly not going to be a cellar-dweller next season, far from it. However, everything is not going to be as rosy as most Hawks homers seem to think its going to be. There's so much working against them next year given their horrid cap situation, the mental toughness of playing teams gearing up for them, playing on a short Summer and the fact that the chemistry they worked so hard to attain is about to take a massive hit.

[Casey 145]

So the hawks firesale has included 2 4th liners, one who couldnt even crack the lineup the past 2 post seasons,and another who has a history of concussion problems, a #6 at best defensemen who cant skate and may be in his last year, and also made way too much money, and Dustin Byfuglien, who has had 3 or 4 good playoff series out of the 7 the past 2 years the hawks have been in, and who during the regular season has limited production and a certain laziness about him.

In return, the hawks get a top prospect, Maddens replacemnet (If they even keep Reasoner), a 1st round pick, a second round pick, and a 6th round pick. Also, Atlanta has eased the hawks cap woes significantly to the point that after Huet is traded/buried/ or bought out, the only other move that might need to be made would be to trade Versteeg.

They will also now be able to sign Hjalmarsson, Niemi and probably Ladd, and depending on how much, could mean plenty of room for a couple free agent dmen.

They might actually end up better than this past season.

You're insane, right?

Byfuglien- 17 goals, 17 assists, 34 points in regular season, 11 goals, 5 assists, 16 points in playoffs.

Eager- 7 goals, 9 assists, 16 points in regular season, 1 goal, 2 assists, 3 points in playoffs.

Fraser- 7 goals, 12 assists, 19 points in regular season, 0 points in playoffs.

Sopel- 1 goal, 7 assists, 8 points in regular season, 1 goal, 5 assists, 6 points in playoffs

77 points in the regular season, 25 in playoffs. Coming in they have Reasoner, 17 points.

They're down 60 points, and minimal cap relief. Sure, their first two lines are intact, but lines 3 and 4 are going to be scrubs.

Edited June 24, 2010 by Casey

[Finnish Wing 110]

You're insane, right?

Byfuglien- 17 goals, 17 assists, 34 points in regular season, 11 goals, 5 assists, 16 points in playoffs.

Eager- 7 goals, 9 assists, 16 points in regular season, 1 goal, 2 assists, 3 points in playoffs.

Fraser- 7 goals, 12 assists, 19 points in regular season, 0 points in playoffs.

Sopel- 1 goal, 7 assists, 8 points in regular season, 1 goal, 5 assists, 6 points in playoffs

77 points in the regular season, 25 in playoffs. Coming in they have Reasoner, 17 points.

They're down 60 points, and minimal cap relief. Sure, their first two lines are intact, but lines 3 and 4 are going to be scrubs.

Well the core they have is YOUNG. They're expected improve and put up better numbers in the future. If you want to compare that to us losing Hossa etc... our core is old in a way that we don't/didn't have as many guys who haven't reached their peaks.

[Shaman 713]

You're insane, right?

Byfuglien- 17 goals, 17 assists, 34 points in regular season, 11 goals, 5 assists, 16 points in playoffs.

Eager- 7 goals, 9 assists, 16 points in regular season, 1 goal, 2 assists, 3 points in playoffs.

Fraser- 7 goals, 12 assists, 19 points in regular season, 0 points in playoffs.

Sopel- 1 goal, 7 assists, 8 points in regular season, 1 goal, 5 assists, 6 points in playoffs

77 points in the regular season, 25 in playoffs. Coming in they have Reasoner, 17 points.

They're down 60 points, and minimal cap relief. Sure, their first two lines are intact, but lines 3 and 4 are going to be scrubs.

The best thing they could have done is parted with one of those first line/first paring D men, and been a little weaker in the top line and been deeper through their roster.

[wings1110 184]

Expect to see injuries to Kane Teows and Hossa and their other top players due to the high amount of minutes they will be playing, due to the extreme lack of depth they will have. idk what they will do, most of there unsigned free agents are due a raise.....simply put they they are f***ed...I hope

Edited June 24, 2010 by wings1110