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Penguins sign Arron Asham

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That makes no sense. It should be the other way around.

I'm actually starting to believe that Asham must have turned the Wings down, because Holland wouldn't actually be so stupid as to sign only enforcers, but not guys who can do more than just fight.

I think it's more a case of us having enough (too many even) 4th liners already. We DO prioritize skill over everything else, but we also usually keep a spot reserved for a tough guy. This year, all those spots were filled already.

Nothing to get upset about. We have a solid 4th line, maybe one of the best in the league. Asham wouldn't have made us any better.

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But he gives us an added dimension that those guys don't.

And despite what other posters may say, it does help to have a guy on the 4th line that can drop the gloves.

I am totally with you, Holland and the Wings are desperate for 4th liner players; they don't have enough and need to sign about 30 more. :ph34r:

Babcock could have a killer 4th line of Asham-Helm-Abdelkader-Draper-Miller-Ritola-Eaves! Holland screwed up, he could have the biggest and baddest 4th line in the league. Problem is though, would the refs let the Wings ice 9 players on the same line? That could be tricky, but I'm sure it can be done.

Or maybe Wings should, instead of icing 2nd line talent on the 3rd line, waive Hudler, Cleary and Modano so Babcock can ice two 4th lines.

GMRwings projected linup:

Zetter-Dats-Holmer

Bert-Filppula-Frazen

Helm-Abdelkader-Miller

Eaves-Draper-Asham

In favor of:

Zetter-Dats-Holmer

Bert-Fil-Franzen

Hudler-Modano-Cleary

Eaves-Abdelkader-Helm

Brilliant!

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That's a bad post.

You need a complete team to win the Stanley Cup.

We wouldn't have won any Stanley Cups if it wasn't for a solid 4th line play in the playoffs. Just because they're not stars doesn't mean they're no important to the overall success.

So solid 4th line = fighting?

You're mixing concepts in a major way. We have a very solid 4th line. Eaves Abds Helm. Probably one of the best 4th lines in the league. Twice as good as Pittsburgh's 4th line.

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I am totally with you, Holland and the Wings are desperate for 4th liner players; they don't have enough and need to sign about 30 more. :ph34r:

Babcock could have a killer 4th line of Asham-Helm-Abdelkader-Draper-Miller-Ritola-Eaves! Holland screwed up, he could have the biggest and baddest 4th line in the league. Problem is though, would the refs let the Wings ice 9 players on the same line? That could be tricky, but I'm sure it can be done.

Or maybe Wings should, instead of icing 2nd line talent on the 3rd line, waive Hudler, Cleary and Modano so Babcock can ice two 4th lines.

GMRwings projected linup:

Zetter-Dats-Holmer

Bert-Filppula-Frazen

Helm-Abdelkader-Miller

Eaves-Draper-Asham

In favor of:

Zetter-Dats-Holmer

Bert-Fil-Franzen

Hudler-Modano-Cleary

Eaves-Abdelkader-Helm

Brilliant!

Stanley cup winning line.

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Guest EZBAKETHAGANGSTA   
Guest EZBAKETHAGANGSTA

That sucks.

We could have had him for the same cash, and he'd give us a gritty forward that can score some goals. Would be a terrific addition to our team. Instead that money went elsewhere.

This is worse than last year, when we found out that Jason Williams' money could have gone to Prospal or Grier.

To be fair, Prospal was never a possiblity for the Wings, regardless of his pricetag. Him and Babcock do not get along, and neither wants to be on the same team as the other.

With that being said, Ray Sherro has had a pretty good offseason for the Pens in my book. Their defense is a lot stronger (albeit maybe less offensivily potent), and they've added some decent grit.

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I am totally with you, Holland and the Wings are desperate for 4th liner players; they don't have enough and need to sign about 30 more. :ph34r:

Babcock could have a killer 4th line of Asham-Helm-Abdelkader-Draper-Miller-Ritola-Eaves! Holland screwed up, he could have the biggest and baddest 4th line in the league. Problem is though, would the refs let the Wings ice 9 players on the same line? That could be tricky, but I'm sure it can be done.

Or maybe Wings should, instead of icing 2nd line talent on the 3rd line, waive Hudler, Cleary and Modano so Babcock can ice two 4th lines.

GMRwings projected linup:

Zetter-Dats-Holmer

Bert-Filppula-Frazen

Helm-Abdelkader-Miller

Eaves-Draper-Asham

In favor of:

Zetter-Dats-Holmer

Bert-Fil-Franzen

Hudler-Modano-Cleary

Eaves-Abdelkader-Helm

Brilliant!

Was this post made by you or a 4 year old?

I never said I wanted Draper even on the team. Same with a guy like Maltby who will probably get paid for playing in GR this season.

A third line of Hudler, Helm and Cleary would be arguably the best 3rd line in the league. Modano gives us more offense on the 3rd line, but we already had enough of that without him.

You can't just load a team with talent and scoring only. A guy like Asham for cheap is not a bad bargain. He's younger than Modano, so we could have him for more seasons possibly in the future.

Don't know why you made such a childish post to start your argument. My arguments were legit and mature on this. I wasn't kidding. Grow up next time before you misquote me about signing 30 tough players.

Edited by GMRwings1983

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Was this post made by you or a 4 year old?

I never said I wanted Draper even on the team. Same with a guy like Maltby who will probably get paid for playing in GR this season.

A third line of Hudler, Helm and Cleary would be arguably the best 3rd line in the league. Modano gives us more offense on the 3rd line, but we already had enough of that without him.

You can't just load a team with talent and scoring only. A guy like Asham for cheap is not a bad bargain. He's younger than Modano, so we could have him for more seasons possibly in the future.

Don't know why you made such a childish post to start your argument. My arguments were legit and mature on this. I wasn't kidding. Grow up next time before you misquote me about signing 30 tough players.

So too much puck possession and offense is a bad thing? Instead, Wings should downgrade so they can hit, grind and fight more? More GMR brilliance!

"A guy like Asham for cheap is not a bad bargain" - I agree, he's a good bargain for a team that actually needs a 4th line player. Wings currently have SIX 4th liners under contract.

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So too much puck possession and offense is a bad thing? Instead, Wings should downgrade so they can hit, grind and fight more? More GMR brilliance!

"A guy like Asham for cheap is not a bad bargain" - I agree, he's a good bargain for a team that actually needs a 4th line player. Wings currently have SIX 4th liners under contract.

Our puck possession and offense was fine without Modano. Hudler would have helped that. Once again, you're another poster who doesn't understand the idea of having a complete hockey team. And Modano is an old guy who can only help us for one year. He won't play after this most likely.

And some of those 4th liners shouldn't have been kept for another season, which is where a guy like Asham comes in. I'm mad because we chose worse options over him and now it's obviously too late to have enough money to pursue him anymore.

I never said we should downgrade from last year so don't attribute things to me that I never said. That's a lousy way to argue and you won't win. Your idea of a brilliant argument seems to be to misquote the person you're arguing against. How is not adding Modano and dropping Maltby a downgrade?

What most in here want to happen for 60 straight minutes of a hockey game. Wait...how could you even play with all that going on? meh I shall carry on.

Is that what I said?

Edited by GMRwings1983

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Not really but maybe you just answered your own question assuming I was talking about you...

I guess I did. :hehe:

I just wanted to make sure that's not how it sounded. I never said we should have an enforcer on every line and constantly fight. That's not our game.

But a guy like Asham over some old man like Maltby who's being offered a similar contract is something I'm going to get a little pissed about. I haven't said anything in this thread other than my own opinion on the matter. If you guys don't care about this issue as much, then so be it. I just don't like any smart alecs coming in here and misquoting things I said to make themselves sound smarter than what they really are.

Edited by GMRwings1983

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Our puck possession and offense was fine without Modano. Hudler would have helped that. Once again, you're another poster who doesn't understand the idea of having a complete hockey team. And Modano is an old guy who can only help us for one year. He won't play after this most likely.

And some of those 4th liners shouldn't have been kept for another season, which is where a guy like Asham comes in. I'm mad because we chose worse options over him and now it's obviously too late to have enough money to pursue him anymore.

I never said we should downgrade from last year so don't attribute things to me that I never said. That's a lousy way to argue and you won't win. Your idea of a brilliant argument seems to be to misquote the person you're arguing against. How is not adding Modano and dropping Maltby a downgrade?

Is that what I said?

How much more would Asham do than the 4th line options we already have? And how much better is he that you had such a problem with him not being signed here.

For the record: He was signed in mid-August at a bit over league minimum salary. What does that tell you about how valuable he was to teams around the league?

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I guess I did. :hehe:

I just wanted to make sure that's not how it sounded. I never said we should have an enforcer on every line and constantly fight. That's not our game.

But a guy like Asham over some old man like Maltby who's being offered a similar contract is something I'm going to get a little pissed about. I haven't said anything in this thread other than my own opinion on the matter. If you guys don't care about this issue as much, then so be it. I just don't like any smart alecs coming in here and misquoting things I said to make themselves sound smarter than what they really are.

I actually like your posts, as they normally have lots of substance and I get a good laugh out of them when the humor is intended. I hold no ill will toward anyone as we are typing to each other about a team we all love and Malts instead of Asham...we knew the loyalty with this org means more than anything. We are just a little too 4th line loaded and he wouldn't have came here and received a bunch of ice time anyway. This said, I would also take him over Drew Miller and ready to take flack but what can ya do lol.

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How much more would Asham do than the 4th line options we already have? And how much better is he that you had such a problem with him not being signed here.

For the record: He was signed in mid-August at a bit over league minimum salary. What does that tell you about how valuable he was to teams around the league?

Maybe he just didn't want to play here like I said earlier.

As for our current options. I like him more than Maltby and Draper, both of whom are not as good as our younger options. I'd take him over a guy like Downey who we're giving another chance to at training camp. I'd probably take him over Miller, since Miller is basically a worse version of Eaves.

So in my book, he'd be a guy that should be on our 4th line. If he was ever an option that is. Don't know if Holland ever contacted him or not. I do know, however, that someone like Maltby shouldn't be getting offers over someone like Asham.

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Our puck possession and offense was fine without Modano. Hudler would have helped that. Once again, you're another poster who doesn't understand the idea of having a complete hockey team. And Modano is an old guy who can only help us for one year. He won't play after this most likely.

And some of those 4th liners shouldn't have been kept for another season, which is where a guy like Asham comes in. I'm mad because we chose worse options over him and now it's obviously too late to have enough money to pursue him anymore.

I never said we should downgrade from last year so don't attribute things to me that I never said. That's a lousy way to argue and you won't win. Your idea of a brilliant argument seems to be to misquote the person you're arguing against. How is not adding Modano and dropping Maltby a downgrade?

...

Modano adds more to the team than Asham could. Nor is Asham so special of a player that we won't have plenty of similar options next year if Modano retires.

And what 4th liners should we not have signed?

No one but you has said anything about Maltby, he's not signed, and will not be on the team next year except maybe in GR for an injury call-up. Draper was already under contract and on the cap anyway. Then we have Helm, Abby, Eaves, Miller, and Ritola. Five players for four spots. So you have to get rid of two of them to make room for Asham.

Asham isn't even that good of a fighter. Turn on some MMA if you're that desparate. This is a stupid complaint.

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Modano adds more to the team than Asham could. Nor is Asham so special of a player that we won't have plenty of similar options next year if Modano retires.

And what 4th liners should we not have signed?

No one but you has said anything about Maltby, he's not signed, and will not be on the team next year except maybe in GR for an injury call-up. Draper was already under contract and on the cap anyway. Then we have Helm, Abby, Eaves, Miller, and Ritola. Five players for four spots. So you have to get rid of two of them to make room for Asham.

Asham isn't even that good of a fighter. Turn on some MMA if you're that desparate. This is a stupid complaint.

I was waiting for that MMA comment. And I just mentioned above what 4th liners we shouldn't have signed. There's nothing stupid about my complaint. You just don't see it my way that's all.

Edited by GMRwings1983

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I was waiting for that. And I just mentioned above what 4th liners we shouldn't have signed. There's nothing stupid about my complaint. You just don't see it my way that's all.

Draper was already signed. Nothing could have been done about it this year. Neither Maltby nor Downey will be regular members of this team. At most they will get contracts to play in GR.

We already have to get rid of one of Miller, Ritola, Eaves, Helm, or Abby. So to sign Asham, we'd have to lose a 2nd (or not sign Modano, who adds much more to the team). Then, to have him actually play, you have to take a 3rd out of the lineup.

Not saying Asham would make the team worse (unless you take him over Modano), but he wouldn't make the team any better either. That's why I think it's stupid. It's irrelevant.

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Draper was already signed. Nothing could have been done about it this year. Neither Maltby nor Downey will be regular members of this team. At most they will get contracts to play in GR.

We already have to get rid of one of Miller, Ritola, Eaves, Helm, or Abby. So to sign Asham, we'd have to lose a 2nd (or not sign Modano, who adds much more to the team). Then, to have him actually play, you have to take a 3rd out of the lineup.

Not saying Asham would make the team worse (unless you take him over Modano), but he wouldn't make the team any better either. That's why I think it's stupid. It's irrelevant.

Like I said already, our 3rd line was good enough without Modano, especially since he doesn't give us anything but a one night stand.

And yeah I'd take Asham over Miller. So I'd have Asham playing on the 4th line with Eaves and Abby. Ritola would get in if (when) there's an injury. Seems perfectly logical to me.

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Like I said already, our 3rd line was good enough without Modano, especially since he doesn't give us anything but a one night stand.

And yeah I'd take Asham over Miller. So I'd have Asham playing on the 4th line with Eaves and Abby. Ritola would get in if (when) there's an injury. Seems perfectly logical to me.

So you're basically saying that you would rather have Asham than Modano.

Modano significantly improves the 3rd line and probably the 2nd PP unit, where as Asham just offers pretty average fighting ability. Certainly not a good enough fighter to protect anyone or 'keep the flies off' or whatever it is people think enforcers do.

Doesn't strike me as particularly logical. Looks more like someone just wants to see more fights.

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So you're basically saying that you would rather have Asham than Modano.

Modano significantly improves the 3rd line and probably the 2nd PP unit, where as Asham just offers pretty average fighting ability. Certainly not a good enough fighter to protect anyone or 'keep the flies off' or whatever it is people think enforcers do.

Doesn't strike me as particularly logical. Looks more like someone just wants to see more fights.

I never wanted Modano, period. We were just fine without him after adding Hudler.

Once again, loading a team with players like Modano on every line isn't necessarily great. We've seen that in the past. I wanted a more balanced team, including on the 3rd line.

Modano and Hudler are not 3rd line players in my opinion.

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Our puck possession and offense was fine without Modano. Hudler would have helped that. Once again, you're another poster who doesn't understand the idea of having a complete hockey team. And Modano is an old guy who can only help us for one year. He won't play after this most likely.

And some of those 4th liners shouldn't have been kept for another season, which is where a guy like Asham comes in. I'm mad because we chose worse options over him and now it's obviously too late to have enough money to pursue him anymore.

I never said we should downgrade from last year so don't attribute things to me that I never said. That's a lousy way to argue and you won't win. Your idea of a brilliant argument seems to be to misquote the person you're arguing against. How is not adding Modano and dropping Maltby a downgrade?

Is that what I said?

That's not how I remember it. I remember Wings winning the Stanley Cup, then the next year going to game 7 of the SCF with an offensive 3rd line of Samuelsson-Filppula-Hudler. Adding Hudler doesn't make up for the loss of Samuelsson and promotion of Filppula going to the 2nd line.

If your argument is adding Hudler is an upgrade from last years team (the same team that nearly got swept in the 2nd round), then I agree with you. But adding Modano, which gives Wings the best 3rd line in the league and makes Red Wings as solid offensively as the cup winning team they had.

Why do you want to be a fraction better than the 2010 team that was nearly swept? Why not reach for the stars and be happy Holland is putting a team together that would rival the cup winning team of 2008?

All this over a 4th liner? Eaves-Abdelkader-Helm line looks pretty damn good to me. In fact, that is arguably the most solid, tenacious, defensive-offensive 4th line in the entire league. And you're mad because Holland didn't sign an older 4th liner from outside the organization?

Holland put together an awesome team this year, if you like winning and celebrating Stanley Cup victories, then you should be ecstatic with this lineup. Kenny has built a team to give us the best chance to win it all.

Arguably the top three 1st line in the league (with Zetterberg and Datsyuk paired up again) - CHECK!

Arguably the most dominating 2nd line in the playoffs (with Franzen and Bertuzzi) - CHECK!

Arguably the best 3rd offensive and puck possession 3rd line in the league - CHECK!

Arguably one of the most well rounded and tenacious 4th lines in the league - CHECK!

And people are still bitching and moaning and crying. Does it ever stop?

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That's not how I remember it. I remember Wings winning the Stanley Cup, then the next year going to game 7 of the SCF with an offensive 3rd line of Samuelsson-Filppula-Hudler. Adding Hudler doesn't make up for the loss of Samuelsson and promotion of Filppula going to the 2nd line.

If your argument is adding Hudler is an upgrade from last years team (the same team that nearly got swept in the 2nd round), then I agree with you. But adding Modano, which gives Wings the best 3rd line in the league and makes Red Wings as solid offensively as the cup winning team they had.

Why do you want to be a fraction better than the 2010 team that was nearly swept? Why not reach for the stars and be happy Holland is putting a team together that would rival the cup winning team of 2008?

All this over a 4th liner? Eaves-Abdelkader-Helm line looks pretty damn good to me. In fact, that is arguably the most solid, tenacious, defensive-offensive 4th line in the entire league. And you're mad because Holland didn't sign an older 4th liner from outside the organization?

Holland put together an awesome team this year, if you like winning and celebrating Stanley Cup victories, then you should be ecstatic with this lineup. Kenny has built a team to give us the best chance to win it all.

Arguably the top three 1st line in the league (with Zetterberg and Datsyuk paired up again) - CHECK!

Arguably the most dominating 2nd line in the playoffs (with Franzen and Bertuzzi) - CHECK!

Arguably the best 3rd offensive and puck possession 3rd line in the league - CHECK!

Arguably one of the most well rounded and tenacious 4th lines in the league - CHECK!

And people are still bitching and moaning and crying. Does it ever stop?

I'm not so sure that Modano and Hudler are the kind of players you need to win on the 3rd line.

In 2008, our 3rd line was Cleary, Draper and Drake. You forgot that apparently. Grinders who were willing to go to the scoring areas and take punishment. I don't see that in Hudler and Modano. A 3rd line is the checking line, and neither of those guys can (will) check.

That's why I wasn't too keen on signing a 40 year old player to play on the 3rd line, even though that isn't a role that he's been accustomed to his whole career. You guys are all convinced that Modano will be great because he's a Hall of Famer and he skates fast, but we haven't succeeded in the past with having just skill on our 3rd line. What makes you think we will now?

I'd rather have checkers like Helm and Cleary on the 3rd line. I'd love to have Modano on our team many years ago to be a top 6 forward, but not now in this particular role. So yes, I wish that money went elsewhere.

Edited by GMRwings1983

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