Should we risk our future for an elite defenseman?

[titanium2 867]

Maybe they should start scouting kids who are like 10-12 years old and try to pick out a Lidstrom from there.

I can see the headline now. "Detroit gambles by agreeing in principle to a contract with 11 year old Swedish kid".

[atodaso 279]

U mad? (haha getting old)

Why not plan for the future already instead of getting handcuffed late in the season when lidstrom decides to hang em up..its better to make a move sooner rather than later

lol, nah i'm not mad. i'm just saying that there is no way holland tells nick: thanks for everything but we're gonna go in a different direction. do you honestly see that happening?

i understand you have to plan for the future but lidstrom can only make our team better by being on it.

speaking of some upcoming FA's... kaberle, markov, and mccabe are UFA's and doughty and webber are RFA's. i don't think the wings could afford to sign any of these guys. let's not forget howard is due for a big raise this off-season.

[Guest mindfly]

lol, nah i'm not mad. i'm just saying that there is no way holland tells nick: thanks for everything but we're gonna go in a different direction. do you honestly see that happening?

i understand you have to plan for the future but lidstrom can only make our team better by being on it.

speaking of some upcoming FA's... kaberle, markov, and mccabe are UFA's and doughty and webber are RFA's. i don't think the wings could afford to sign any of these guys. let's not forget howard is due for a big raise this off-season.

I don't see it happening no but it might be the best long-term for the franchise, Suter has a similar style as lidstrom and is currently a lidstrom-lite with potential to become even greater if he would play in detroit

Edited November 10, 2010 by mindfly

[truebladearmy 33]

Considering Nick is leading all NHL defenseman in points, and tied for first on our team in points with Dats and Z.....

Who's talking retirement?

Sure, defensively he misses a step or two here and there, but if this year is any indication of what he's got left in the tank, he'll be trotting along for a few more years with the organization.

I've never heard Lidstrom mention retirement. It's just all of us that talk about his retirement, lol.

(DAMN!!! I been posting under my FB account for a year. Now that I cancelled it.....I'm down to a rookie again on my old name, lol. I been visiting this site for years, under like 6 different names. Wish there was a way to like....link them all together. Ah well...)

Edited November 10, 2010 by truebladearmy

[Guest mindfly]

Considering Nick is leading all NHL defenseman in points, and tied for first on our team in points with Dats and Z.....

Who's talking retirement?

It's better replacing lidstrom in a year full of good FA's instead of a year with mediocre FA's... i know lidstrom will get to play as long as he wants but I don't know if that's the best for the longer term, if wings would lock up a very solid D this summer it would do alot to vill the void...

[achildr1 255]

Actually come to think of it the Kessel trade is a bad example since we'll be in the late rounds. 3 1sts and 2 2nds + Kronwall, Smith, Filppula? This is what makes me think since that's 3 years of no higher round developed players, but we get Doughty, perhaps get another Salei type player in FA, and sit on the fact that we're comfortable with our forward prospects.

Dude, I know you said your not a big trade guy, but whoa. That's straight nuts.

No offer sheet. Bad news. The whole offer sheet process isn't cool. Poaching players at rediculous prices (real dollars and compensation), not something I see Kenny & co doing.

If Huds reclaims some value and we package a prospect (Sheahan, Pulkinnen, Nyquist, or Jarnkrok. To a lesser extent Emmerton and Nestrasil. Smith, Tater, and McCullom are probably safe.) and a 1st rnd pick, we might be able to land a Suter or Seabrook type (might have to be in thier RFA year)

Just for fun, here's what I think it may reasonably take to get Doughty if he were realistically available (not in an RFA year), taking into account the Kings roster. And I think it would look like a possibly beefed up Pronger trade...

Hudler/Filppula

Ericsson/Abdelkader

Smith/Tater

1st

2nd

In an RFA year:

Hudler

Smith/Tater

1st

2nd

BTW, I would be very suprised if any team with a Doughty, Suter, or Seabrook type lets them go. It's such a bad idea to let good, young d-men walk.

[Carman 387]

I wouldn't.

I trust our drafting to find the next great elite defenseman. I'd much rather take a risk on our own crop, then find out we are stuck with a 8 million dollar Doughty for 6 years that doesn't fit our system and doesn't have the intangibles we need(Not saying he doesn't, I just don't know if the risk is worth the reward).

Although we do have a lot of depth in the minors, so really it could be possible for Kenny to get a deal going. Pretty much I'll trust the front office to do what's best with what resources they have.

[Guest mindfly]

I wouldn't.

I trust our drafting to find the next great elite defenseman. I'd much rather take a risk on our own crop, then find out we are stuck with a 8 million dollar Doughty for 6 years that doesn't fit our system and doesn't have the intangibles we need(Not saying he doesn't, I just don't know if the risk is worth the reward).

Although we do have a lot of depth in the minors, so really it could be possible for Kenny to get a deal going. Pretty much I'll trust the front office to do what's best with what resources they have.

When lidstrom retires you can count on that they will use a big part of that relieved capspace for a D or a Goalie...And we don't have "a lot of depth" in the minors, we have Smith on D and McCollum in goal, that's all, and it's not even a guarantee they will become top notch nhlers either they are just hopeful they can be (not talking about forwards here as it doesn't have anything to do with the issue of the topic)

Edited November 10, 2010 by mindfly

[Carman 387]

When lidstrom retired you can count on that they will use a big part of that for a D or a Goalie...

I don't agree. I believe the front office is pretty happy with Howard so far. And especially with Holland's philosophy of having cheap goaltending.

http://blog.mlive.com/snapshots/2010/07/free_agent_goalies_blame_red_w.html

And I meant depth with forwards that why could use as trade fodder.

Edited November 10, 2010 by Carman

[Guest mindfly]

Alright, good luck with

Rafalski-Stuart

Kronwall-Ericsson

Kindl-Smith

Howard

[truebladearmy 33]

It's better replacing lidstrom in a year full of good FA's instead of a year with mediocre FA's... i know lidstrom will get to play as long as he wants but I don't know if that's the best for the longer term, if wings would lock up a very solid D this summer it would do alot to vill the void...

I agree, we should be looking around. That's for sure. I think we've been trying that for years in the draft market, with ehh mediocre success.

He won't be someone we can just replace. Front office would be retarded if they aren't looking to fill that gap when he does retire. I'm just hoping one of our D-men this year steps up a bit, to soften the blow.

What a system shock it will be, when he's gone. I'll cry. No really, I'll flat out cry.

[LeftWinger 5,153]

We should have risked a bit of the future (and some of the present) two years ago and tried to get the 2nd pick from Tampa to draft Hedman. Back then Piddler still had star potential, we could have tried to come up with something to wrestle that pick away. Hedman would be the NEXT Lidstrom here, unfotunately Kronwall (who was supposed to be the next Nick) won't be.

[Guest Heaten]

We should have risked a bit of the future (and some of the present) two years ago and tried to get the 2nd pick from Tampa to draft Hedman. Back then Piddler still had star potential, we could have tried to come up with something to wrestle that pick away. Hedman would be the NEXT Lidstrom here, unfotunately Kronwall (who was supposed to be the next Nick) won't be.

There is no such thing as the "next Lidstrom". I think Lidstrom signs for another year and Kenny Holland will sign a UFA (not RFA) in 2012 to fill the spot. If Lidstrom re-signs one more year, then Red Wings (Holland) will have 5 UFA to contend with in 2012 (Lidstrom, Rafi, Stuart, Kronwall and Janik).

Also, I highly doubt Holland will sign the biggest and most appealing name either, he'll likely go after someone who most of us never heard of and will end up being considered an absolute steal by the end of the season. The guy in question will likely be 33+ years old. I doubt Kenny will be replacing Lidstom's spot with youth.

Edited November 10, 2010 by Heaten

[GoWings1905 2,694]

Since rafalski has a NTC, letting lidstrom walk away after this season and signing weber/suter might be a good idea, they're the best FA's this summer..

I like this idea. I don't think Nashville will let Weber get away, but Suter would be a nice option.

Put Suter and Rafalski together and relive the best defense pairing from the Olympics.

[theman19 47]

U mad? (haha getting old)

Why not plan for the future already instead of getting handcuffed late in the season when lidstrom decides to hang em up..its better to make a move sooner rather than later

You know people said the same thing a couple years ago about chara. Let lidstrom walk, throw money at chara. People also said in 05 we should have signed bulin to a stupid contract out of the lockout gate. Point being,...hindsight is 20/20 But,......the past can teach us the value of not thinking like were playing an EA hockey game.

We won't replace lidstrom, even with doughty,...doughty doesn't have six norris trophys and four stanley cup rings (yet)

When lids retires, this team will have to go in an entirely different direction.

[egroen 384]

I'm not ready to give up on Lidstrom playing another 2-15 years, but the defense should probably play as a committee at the time he does retire, versus a huge trade. Until the time a great FA opportunity does come along.

I'm not convinced Weber/Suter will want to stay in Nashville when they become free agents (who ever really does?). There is absolutely no indication that team will ever spend the money necessary to be a true contender year-in and year-out.

Another thing to remember is I am pretty sure Stuart's no-trade clause is up after this year. Ultimately, I'm not too worried - there will be plenty of options for an upper-tier destination team like Detroit that consistently spends to the cap, and for once is actually pretty loaded with decent prospects.

[wings_fanatic 677]

I like the idea of Andre Markov... Now before I go any further, let me just say that there is NO REPLACING Nick Lidstrom. Markov, IMO is the best way for the Wings to fill the void as best as possible, as he would not demand 7 mil and is very good offensively. Now everyone is preparing for a year without Nick next year, but at this rate and watching Nick play, he looks like he is having lots of fun out there so I think he will keep playing. With that said, I want to suggest something no one has thought of: What if Nick comes back again next year AND the Wings sign Markov!

I know a lot of people think there is no chance of that, but I have read a few times that the Cap could go up as much as 4 million dollars this offseason coming up. Nick will probably demand a little less cash, plus a couple other little moves, and Markov could easily be signed by the Wings. Imagine that...

Lidstrom- Rafalski

Markov- Kronwall

Stuart- Ericson

That would be amazing, and even though itd be a long shot, it could defs happen

[luvmnger 125]

i have one word for this post....

Ekman-Larsson

the wings should go after this kid as soon as they can to mentor under lids.

i know...he was a recent draft pick.....but...

this kid oozes potential....reminds me of the good niedermeyer....not the retiree..duck niedermeyer

mark this post.

i will eat these words..if he busts.

[Pat 44]

Duncan Keith was developed in the AHL and Smith is right now. If we make it to the finals and don't win Lidstrom will play another year, if we make it to the cup and win, he will retire. Modano 1m + 6.2m = 7.2m of cap space. But we still have to sign Howard to keep him here.

Expect about 5-6m of cap space.

If the redwings could somehow get Doughty it would be a miracle. They need a proven young defenseman that can score/shutdown other teams top players.

However, this will not occur as Doughty would require a trade and Picks.

This is what I see happening:

6m of cap space

Defense Pairings

Stuart, Kronwall

Rafalski,Byfuglien

Gill, Smith

Would be one of the hardest hitting defenses in the league and quite a bit of offense. (Smith, Rafalski, Kronwall, Buff)

Thats something I could see happening and it fits our style.

[Probie 7]

To answer the title of the thread:

We are not risking our future to land an elite defensemen, we are merely trading assets to obtain such a thing. You are paying a lot to get a lot. I would say we should trade picks and prospects, roster players etc to Land Adam Larson this year at the draft. That would be our elite defensemen in a few years, and if he plays this year(he could have been playing in the nhl at 17) he could be taught by Nick this coming year(he sounds like hes coming back for one more year). Get her done kenny!! 1st 2011, 1st 2012, Prospect and or good roster player or any combo of.

[daniel1 32]

Weber. Whatever it takes, it's worth it. He's the next Pronger and Doughty rolled into one but never gets as much credit as he deserves cause he's stuck in s***sville. Offer him the max, I'm betting he's had enough of Fiddleville anyways and wants to come to a real hockey team in a real hockey market. I doubt Nashville can afford him and he's worth a max contract or some other Holland invention to keep him here for the next 10 years or so.

[Bring Back The Bruise Bros 1,029]

Weber. Whatever it takes, it's worth it. He's the next Pronger and Doughty rolled into one but never gets as much credit as he deserves cause he's stuck in s***sville. Offer him the max, I'm betting he's had enough of Fiddleville anyways and wants to come to a real hockey team in a real hockey market. I doubt Nashville can afford him and he's worth a max contract or some other Holland invention to keep him here for the next 10 years or so.

Absolutely!

Weber-Rafalski

Stuart-Kronwall

Smith-Erskine

(Ericsson)

[Guest Heaten]

People here have big imaginations. Sure it's fun being a couch GM, but some ideas are absurd.

I like the idea of Andre Markov...

Too injury prone.

Duncan Keith was developed in the AHL and Smith is right now. If we make it to the finals and don't win Lidstrom will play another year, if we make it to the cup and win, he will retire. Modano 1m + 6.2m = 7.2m of cap space. But we still have to sign Howard to keep him here.

Expect about 5-6m of cap space.

Don't forget Draper and Osgood's contract comes off the books. That's almost another $3 million

To answer the title of the thread:

We are not risking our future to land an elite defensemen, we are merely trading assets to obtain such a thing. You are paying a lot to get a lot. I would say we should trade picks and prospects, roster players etc to Land Adam Larson this year at the draft. That would be our elite defensemen in a few years, and if he plays this year(he could have been playing in the nhl at 17) he could be taught by Nick this coming year(he sounds like hes coming back for one more year). Get her done kenny!! 1st 2011, 1st 2012, Prospect and or good roster player or any combo of.

Holland's not giving up a bunch of assets for that draft pick. He said numberous upon numberous times that draft picks and young role players are more important now (since lockout) than anything. Holland would have to give up a lot. He'll go with an experienced FA that many of never heard of. Doubt he goes with any big names.

Weber. Whatever it takes,

No. Not whatever it takes.

[Bring Back The Bruise Bros 1,029]

He's no Lidstrom, but i've always liked Ian White. He is on a 1-year deal in Calgary, maybe we can scoop him up this offseason.

[Grim 5]

Nik practically has a blank check for him to write in how many years and at what payrate. heaven forbid he hangs them up... but if he does, I hope Ken takes a good long look at Eddie Jovanovski who likely will be UFA at this year's end.