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achildr1

Retire Osgood's #30?

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Osgood is currently tied at 314 with Jacques Plante for fourth all-time for most wins with a single team. The goalies ahead? Martin Brodeur, Tony Esposito, and Terry Sawchuk. He is one of only nine goaltenders to win 300 games with a single team, something that was not done by the following, among others:

Patrick Roy

Dominik Hasek

Glenn Hall

Grant Fuhr

Gump Worsley

Osgood's win total with the Wings alone would place him 19th on the All-time list instead of his current #10 ranking.

Osgood was one of the five best goaltenders in the world in his prime. Competing with, among others, three goaltenders who all are argued as the best ever.

This isn't Holmstrom or Draper we're talking about. Osgood for a long period was a top notch goaltender in the NHL.

He deserves his jersey number to be retired.

And as for you who say no HHOF? Are you ******* serious? A 400-win goalie and model citizen is not getting into the HHOF? Dino eventually got in even though he was blackballed by Bowman. He was good but not as good as Osgood.

Here's my Haterade...

Osgood would very simply never have had his rediculously inflated numbers on another team.

1. Osgood was never a top-3 goaltender in his prime or other wise. (listed below are better goaltenders ;) )

-90's: Roy, Hasek, Brodeur, Belfour, Vernon, Richter, Joseph, Vanbiesbrouck...then Osgood

-Early 00's: Roy, Hasek, Brodeur, Belfour, Joseph...then maybe Osgood.

It's widely considered a truth that Chris Osgood can be the goaltender that will be good enough to not screw up a Cup run, however he won't be one to steal many games along the way. I have been watching Chris Osgood for the majority of his career and would say that is absolutely true. In that 15 plus years I can count the number of games he has won essentially by himself on one hand. During that time his play was much more likely to be more closely related to why we lost a game rather than why we won. I have been more confidant with Hasek, Howard, Vernon, and even Legace in net, than I have been with Osgood in a big game.

Etup me, a HOF goaltender, should have been "great". And that player should have had some extended representation of that greatness for more than what could reasonably be called a fluke or 1 great year (Jose Theodore). Chris Osgood's best statiscal season came in a year that he only played half the games. His best playoff came when we iced the most effective defense and two-way play ive ever witnessed from the Wings or any other team. While I give him credit for being better than Dom that year and being very good, "great" is still a word I hesistate to use. That was the closest Ozzy ever came to "greatness". Hasek was great, Roy was unbelievably great, Vanbiesbrouck made the Finals with the Panthers and won a cup with the Rangers, Richter had several glimpses of big game greatness. Osgood...was the goalie the Wings won the Cup with. So were Hasek and Vernon and both were better goalies. They just weren't here as long. Chris has played behind argueably the best defences and offences of the last 15 years. The perenial Norris recipient has always been there for him. As well as Murphy, Fetisov, Konstantinov, Rafalski, and Chelios.

If he's voted in for sustained win totals and his rings, so be it. He would most likely end up in the Hall anyway in a bad year, maybe right next to Lindros and Gilmour.

Btw, in Osgood's "prime", we wanted and traded for a better goalie. Not only that, we didn't get anything for him at all. The Islanders claimed him on waivers I believe. We got more for Leino.

Edited by achildr1

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If we won Game 7 of the 2009 Final, Ozzie would have won the Conn Smythe, and there would be a good argument that his number should be retired. I think a 2009 Cup would have been that important to his career, putting him at the next level as a goalie.

With that said, no I don't think Ozzie's #30 should be retired, but he, no doubt in my mind, should be in the Hall of Fame.

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Guest mindfly   
Guest mindfly

2008.

Also, Osgood's numbers improved when he went to NYI and then got worse after coming back to Detroit.

Because osgood had to try and become a butterfly goalie which he doesn't have the physique for nor the proper training from youth hockey etc, can't learn an old dog how to sit etc.

Edited by mindfly

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He wasnt a sieve in 2009 during the playoffs, people seem to quickly forget that because of his lack luster 2009 regular season and his abysmal 2010 outing.

I hadn't forgotten his 2009 playoffs. He was one win away from a Conn Smythe. But he still sucked big time that regular season.

The simple fact that we are having this debate means that #30 should not be retired

I hate that argument as to whether someones number should be retired. You know why? Because there will ALWAYS be debate. As dumb as it may be, there are people in this thread who think Nick Lidstrom should not have his number retired. Therefore there is now a debate. Therefore Lidstrom does not get his number retired, all because there are 1 or 2 idiots wherever you go.

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Guest Howard He Do It?!   
Guest Howard He Do It?!

I hate that argument as to whether someones number should be retired. You know why? Because there will ALWAYS be debate. As dumb as it may be, there are people in this thread who think Nick Lidstrom should not have his number retired. Therefore there is now a debate. Therefore Lidstrom does not get his number retired, all because there are 1 or 2 idiots wherever you go.

That's not a debate. That's a couple of idiots spouting insanities. What is occurring in this thread is a debate.

Go ahead and post a thread asking whether Lidstrom should have his number retired and see the differences. They would be striking.

Edited by Howard He Do It?!

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Do people like to regurgitate made up lies?

Booster: did you ever see Sid Abel play?

In all honesty no, but from everything I have read he wasn't the allstar that Gordie and Ted were and was basically retired as a formality because he played on the production line and was up in age at the time that it happened.

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It's all up in the air, i'm not sure if they'll even retire Lidstrom's jersey... Stevie Y was a no brainer to retire, I personally think Lidstrom's should be retired though. As for osgood, maybe... but I don't think they will. Another question is who is going to take captain when Lidstrom actually does retire... i'm not trying to steal your thread, I just don't personally feel like making a new one for that.

Dude... I said I certainly think he'll go up. Calm down.

No you didn't

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Guest mindfly   
Guest mindfly

Arguably, because he is THE best of all time... there is always a lot of debate about this, but I would put Orr behind Lidstrom on said list...

I think only red wings fans would put Lidstrom over Orr, there's no question that Orr is the best Dman of all time even if he didn't play that long.

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If we won Game 7 of the 2009 Final, Ozzie would have won the Conn Smythe, and there would be a good argument that his number should be retired. I think a 2009 Cup would have been that important to his career, putting him at the next level as a goalie.

With that said, no I don't think Ozzie's #30 should be retired, but he, no doubt in my mind, should be in the Hall of Fame.

That's an interesting idea. We didn't win the Cup in '09 because we only scored 1 goal in game 6 and 1 in game 7. In both games Ozzie only alowed 2 goals (each). Our losing in '09 was not Ozzie's fault but your argument is that it cost him immortality...

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I think only red wings fans would put Lidstrom over Orr, there's no question that Orr is the best Dman of all time even if he didn't play that long.

Not true. In your mind maybe but if you ask all of the hockey writers, GM's coaches, etc. I guarantee that some of them will pick other defenseman over Orr. My point is that it is debatable so to say that "there is no question" is just wrong.

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Guest mindfly   
Guest mindfly

It's the same as Gretzky is the best player to play the game, no question about that, still there will be some people putting lemieux over him for whatever reason.

Edited by mindfly

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Everyone keeps saying he doesn't deserve HHOF or his number being retired based on the past couple of seasons. I thought the point of making a decision like that was to look at his entire career numbers, not just the end of his career. I've been an Osgood supporter since he started here and I do think he deserves to have his number retired. If you look at the percentage of games he's won 54% (738 GP, 398 W) in comparison to Sawchuk 46% (971 GP, 447 W)it's actually better at the moment. Of course there's still time for that to change but looking at the numbers like that I say he's done very well in his career and as a Wing.

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My thinking is that Osgood won't be in the rafters simply because the Red Wings have such high qualifications. If Osgood's number was put up in the rafters it would then, inevitably, bring out the question of why he was chosen over other players - "if he got there, then why not Fedorov, why not Shanny?" If you compare his impact to that of those two players, it would be unfair that the honour not be theirs as well. The Red Wings have only chosen iconic players that have contributed to the culture of the franchise.

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The rafters in the Joe are reserved for all time greats.

Howe the greatest most well rounded player all time

Lindsey and Abel were both part of one of the greatest lines all time that was part of a dynasty and arguably best team of all time in 52

Sawchuk is a top 5 goalie all time, maybe top 3

Yzerman is one of, if not the best leader in the history of the game and if he had not reinvented his game to win, he wouldd be much higher on the all time list.

Lidstrom will go up. I think its dumb to say he's better then Orr but he is at least op 5 all time.

Does Ozzie belong in the same breath as any of these players? No he wasn't even close. He won 2 cups as a starter and other then that was not anything very special, just a solid goalie on a great team. You dont get your number retired fr that

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Guest ToMaToToWnWinGsFaN_24   
Guest ToMaToToWnWinGsFaN_24

which teams did osgood play for other then detroit..

i know 1 is St Louis...cant quite remember the other one... :ph34r:

:band:

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Arguably, because he is THE best of all time... there is always a lot of debate about this, but I would put Orr behind Lidstrom on said list...

It's posts like these that make me lose faith in humanity.

Lidstrom was not better than Orr. Not by a long shot.

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