Not to be an A-hole

[hockey&beer 16]

So over the years I haven't had many negative things to say about Valterri. But when it really comes down to it, what does he REALLY bring to this lineup other than solid defensive play? For his contract he really needs to either provide WAY more offense or be winning faceoffs, like all of them.

In addition, off topic oddly enough, Babcock said he would ice the team that provided the best chance of winning. Not to second guess the guy but, you have Hudler providing almost nothing (he IS there for offense) and Fil playing, ON THE POWER PLAY, not getting any points how is this the best lineup to win games? I've been around for a while and seem to recall that Drapes has a great FO% and Modano is known to have some skill putting the puck in the net. I really hope that MB makes a change or 2 to the lineup when the series shifts back home or we may be looking at the same outcome as last season.

[dat's sick 1,002]

I was gonna say he brings puck-possession, but lately he's been SOOOO weak on the puck. Just about everyone just pushes him away and takes the puck from him.

That's why I've defended him in the past, because he's always been a good fit for the Wings. Good defensively, good at holding onto the puck and entering the zone, good skater. But his confidence seems to be at an all-time low. That or he's nursing some injury. I don't know. All I know he's been really disappointing for me almost the entire season and now especially in the playoffs. Sad, because I truly thought he was heading in the right direction. Must've taken a wrong turn somewhere.

[Mabuhay Red Wings 177]

[Z and D for the C 712]

especially in the playoffs.

Especially? Especially? I understand that he had a disappointing regular season, but to say he's especially disappointing you in the playoffs? He had 5 points in 4 games in the first round. 5 players in 16 teams had better point totals in the first round. Either you don't have a very good handle on the English language, or I better change my perspective thinking I have high expectations for him.

[Z and D for the C 712]

At the end of the day 4 players have points in these two games. The fact that Filppula, who was our second best forward in the first round and third to only Datsyuk and Zetterberg in all-around play is the one being called out is absolutely unbelievable.

Edited May 1, 2011 by Z and D for the C

[Theophany 110]

At the end of the day 4 players have points in these two games. The fact that Filppula, who was our second best forward in the first round and third to only Datsyuk and Zetterberg in all-around play is the one being called out is absolutely unbelievable.

I completely agree. People aren't looking in the right direction when they think Filppula is a problem; he's cimply not. His faceoff win percentage could be higher, but other than that, you can't complain about a guy that in six games has 1 G, 4 A, and is +5 (tied for second on the team in points).

How about the guy that's -3, has no points, 12 PIM, and is playing third line center?

[Buppy 1,720]

Taking Flip and Happy out would be ridiculous. They weren't great today, but overall they've both been very good so far in the playoffs. Hudler was maybe our second best forward in game 1, and Flip was top 5.

I do think we need to do something with the 3rd line. Abby isn't cutting it at center, and that line is getting pinned way too much. The best thing may be to move Flip down, maybe both of them to make the 3rd line a scoring threat.

Mule - Pav - Homer

Bert - Hank - Cleary

Huds - Flip - Miller

Abby - Helm - Eaves

Maybe even bench Abby for Drapes, or work Mo in somehow.

[under_par_00 45]

Mule - Pav - Homer

Bert - Hank - Cleary

Huds - Flip - Miller

Abby - Helm - Eaves

Maybe even bench Abby for Drapes, or work Mo in somehow.

Filp is an ideal 3rd line centre for this team. At $3 mil, he might be overpaid for that position, but he is good on faceoffs, great defensively, good speed, and somewhat offensively capable. He is not good enough to centre a dominant 2nd line, but he is perfect for a 3rd line.

The key to this is having 2 great top 2 centres, and the Wings just happen to have that in Dats and Z. Time to split them up, even Z at 70% is much better centering the 2nd line than Filp. This allows the Wings two really good scoring lines, and a capable 3rd line.

Moral of the story, get Filp off the 2nd line for now, and forget about his $3-mil paycheck.

[Lonewuhf 47]

I've come to the conclusion that some people just flat out ignore some player's performance solely so they can come to these forums and complain about them. There are a few players who aren't pulling their weight on this team right now. Fil is not one of them.

How about we put him and Dats back together because they've had more chemistry these playoffs than any other players.

Edited May 2, 2011 by Lonewuhf

[Konnan511 1,736]

If you're going to pick on a guy, at least spell his name right.

Filppula is the least of our worries. His 3mil contract is for him to play excellent defense and chip in with offense along with solid faceoff winning abilities. babcock disagrees with the OP as he is 3rd in TOI/G among forwards. Plus, for someone whose knock is that he doesn't shoot enough, he is tied for 2nd among forwards on the team with SOG and in points. Why not call out guys on the team that are paid around the same range as him or more that have been ghosts, not only this series, but this postseason?

Filppula is fine. Our Powerplay is not.

Edited May 2, 2011 by Konnan511

[Guest blueadams]

The one time Flip has looked really, really great was game two in the Pheonix series when Babs let him play on Pav's wing while Mule was taking his concussion tests. Pav, with another guy on the ice that could pass like him, was incredible. It was electric. I'd get that going again.

Hudler...nothing positive. Scratch him. Put Modano on the third line. Put Cleary on the second line (they need a net-front presence!).

Filppula-Datsyuk-Holmstrom

Franzen-Zetterberg-Cleary

Modano-Abdelkader-Bertuzzi

Miller/Draper-Helm-Eaves

Hudler

...Hudler's kind of in the same boat as Val, but to a greater extent. Really hasn't thrived all season unless he was with Pav. I suppose that you could roll: Hudler-Datsyuk-Filppula; Franzen-Zetterberg-Holmstrom; Cleary-Abdelkader-Bertuzzi; Miller/Draper-Helm-Eaves though.

[Lonewuhf 47]

The one time Flip has looked really, really great was game two in the Pheonix series when Babs let him play on Pav's wing while Mule was taking his concussion tests. Pav, with another guy on the ice that could pass like him, was incredible. It was electric. I'd get that going again.

Hudler...nothing positive. Scratch him. Put Modano on the third line. Put Cleary on the second line (they need a net-front presence!).

Filppula-Datsyuk-Holmstrom

Franzen-Zetterberg-Cleary

Modano-Abdelkader-Bertuzzi

Miller/Draper-Helm-Eaves

Hudler

...Hudler's kind of in the same boat as Val, but to a greater extent. Really hasn't thrived all season unless he was with Pav. I suppose that you could roll: Hudler-Datsyuk-Filppula; Franzen-Zetterberg-Holmstrom; Cleary-Abdelkader-Bertuzzi; Miller/Draper-Helm-Eaves though.

Putting Val in the same boat as Hudler is basically like saying you didn't pay attention to the majority of the season/postseason. Val wasn't great after returning from his injury, but he was still leaps and bounds better than Hudler overall.

[Aussie_Wing 354]

It's all Flip's fault!!!!!!!!!

[Green Wing 26]

Not a good thread. Not because Filppula has been that good, but because plenty others have been worse.

And he's still a plus 5 in 6 games I believe.

He's obviously not been great in the last two games, but who has? Personally I believe there are other players who are being outplayed and the Head Coach and Defensive Coach don't look too great against McLellans Sharks. Man I wish their head coach was still our defensive coach, cos McCrimmon blows.

Edited May 2, 2011 by Green Wing

[Z and D for the C 712]

The one time Flip has looked really, really great was game two in the Pheonix series when Babs let him play on Pav's wing while Mule was taking his concussion tests. Pav, with another guy on the ice that could pass like him, was incredible. It was electric. I'd get that going again.

Hudler...nothing positive. Scratch him. Put Modano on the third line. Put Cleary on the second line (they need a net-front presence!).

Filppula-Datsyuk-Holmstrom

Franzen-Zetterberg-Cleary

Modano-Abdelkader-Bertuzzi

Miller/Draper-Helm-Eaves

Hudler

...Hudler's kind of in the same boat as Val, but to a greater extent. Really hasn't thrived all season unless he was with Pav. I suppose that you could roll: Hudler-Datsyuk-Filppula; Franzen-Zetterberg-Holmstrom; Cleary-Abdelkader-Bertuzzi; Miller/Draper-Helm-Eaves though.

Filppula Datsyuk and Franzen were together for about half a shift IIRC, I think that could be a good line.

[achildr1 255]

At the end of the day 4 players have points in these two games. The fact that Filppula, who was our second best forward in the first round and third to only Datsyuk and Zetterberg in all-around play is the one being called out is absolutely unbelievable.

I'm going to disagree with you. I was at game 2 of the first round, a game I thought Fil was pretty good in. That said, Helm was easily, and by a mile, better than any forward not named Pavel "Dipsey dangle" Datsyuk. Datsyuk, and occasionally Helm, have been the only Wings forwards to even show up in San Jose though, and Fil has been invisible.

I'm calling out way more players than Fil, but I wouldn't mind at all if he were part of a trade to land a Bogosian-type guy in the offseason, if that were possible. Tomas Kopecky put up Fil-like numbers this season, is meaner, and makes far less money. And for a guy not to thrilled with Tomas "the real deal" Kopecky, that's a little disturbing. Every year is supposed to be his breakout year, but it isn't. He's essentially a less intense, more skilled version of Dan Cleary who doesn't put up Cleary-like production or go to the net like Dan.

3 million for a third line center isn't ideal. But niether is 4 million, 11 years, for a 6'2" 220 lb pylon that plays like Bossy for 4 games, Hilary Duff for 25, and should, but choses not to be, a physical force. Whatever, that's another issue.

These guys need to wake up, period. If we play like we can, we'd win the Cup this year. But we aren't, and we haven't very much this season. I think Babs needs to realize to sit Franzen (cause he's hurt and currently Hilary Duff) and put in Drapes who embodies the change we need to win this series. If Fil plays like he can, but rarely does, that would help as well.

Not a good thread. Not because Filppula has been that good, but because plenty others have been worse.

And he's still a plus 5 in 6 games I believe.

He's obviously not been great in the last two games, but who has? Personally I believe there are other players who are being outplayed and the Head Coach and Defensive Coach don't look too great against McLellans Sharks. Man I wish their head coach was still our defensive coach, cos McCrimmon blows.

McCrimmon needs to be gone, for sure. Ever since McClellan left this team has defensively underachieved.

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

Uh, he had 5 points in 4 games in the first round, one of the top three point producers I believe. This team has lost just twice in 6 tries in the playoffs. Stinks that they are 2 in a row to start the second round, but the losses were 1 goal each and the team was far from lazy in both against a solid opponent. Flipper's production or whenever he's not producing isn't a major reason or the sole reason this series is 0-2.

Edited May 2, 2011 by SouthernWingsFan

[OldMan333 13]

McCrimmon needs to be gone, for sure. Ever since McClellan left this team has defensively underachieved.

THIS!!! Why this big red flare hasn't gone up more often the last 4(?) years I don't understand.

[Mabuhay Red Wings 177]

McCrimmon needs to be gone, for sure. Ever since McClellan left this team has defensively underachieved.

Babs always says that much of their defense is puck possession itself. In other words, offense. We've all heard a million times that if the Wings have the puck, the other team doesn't and that's the best defense of all. Therefore, perhaps whoever is in charge of the offense and designs plays on how to main possession, putting guys in the right spot to support the puck and whatnot should be held accountable. (Currently Walrus Mustache Paul MacLean).

McClellan was in charge of the offense. Thus, he was partially responsible for the Red Wings defense. This could partially explain why the defense was good when McClellan was here. Maybe the details in his offensive playbook helped the Wings play a puck possession style a little better than they do now.

[achildr1 255]

Babs always says that much of their defense is puck possession itself. In other words, offense. We've all heard a million times that if the Wings have the puck, the other team doesn't and that's the best defense of all. Therefore, perhaps whoever is in charge of the offense and designs plays on how to main possession, putting guys in the right spot to support the puck and whatnot should be held accountable. (Currently Walrus Mustache Paul MacLean).

McClellan was in charge of the offense. Thus, he was partially responsible for the Red Wings defense. This could partially explain why the defense was good when McClellan was here. Maybe the details in his offensive playbook helped the Wings play a puck possession style a little better than they do now.

Good point. Hadn't thought of that.

[Shady Ultima 40]

It's pretty obvious why the Sharks are so good. They've been learning from us, specifically because McLellan was our offensive assistant coach.

I think we need new assistant coaching staff. McCrimmon is garbage, and it's obvious. Before the start of next season, I'd love to see some changes behind the bench. Keep Babs, and change the rest.

[DatsyukianDekes 2,428]

Flip needs to move down to the third line center, hes proving that hes not good enough to center the second line against a good team like the Sharks in the playoffs, wouldn't mind seeing him traded in the off season either.

[Broken 16 381]

Ok. I was wondering who we were gonna blame... CURSE YOU FLIP!

I don't like him at 2nd line center though. I hope Hank is ready to go soon.

Edited May 2, 2011 by Broken 16

[hockey&beer 16]

All that I'm really trying to point out is that this is a MUCH tighter defensive series than Phoenix and having a PP with Huds and Flip is seriously hurting both units. If you only ice 1 truly dangerous unit your opponent can play their best PKers, especially on home ice.

I wasn't going to even acknowledge the comment(s),but I never even alluded to Hudler and Filppula being the reason that we're down 2-0. I was just pointing out that if Babcock is going to continue to say that his decisons for sitting a player is to ice the best team possible, it seems there could be other options.

Maybe the offense wakes up when things get back here, but until then I'm going to be wondering why Fil can hold on to the puck coming into the zone but always pulls up and looks pass at the top of the circle. Or why Hudler doesn't hang around those "soft areas" where Hull and Shanny used to make their money, since he has that wicked wrister.

There are very few players that are playing to their ability right now and we are in a 2-0 hole. I guess I could take a page from the Wings PR book and say, "we need to play better defensively; we need to stop taking penalties; we need to forecheck stronger; the PP needs to be better...". But I would rather have a conversation about what changes can be made to shift this puppy back in our favor.

[Lonewuhf 47]

All that I'm really trying to point out is that this is a MUCH tighter defensive series than Phoenix and having a PP with Huds and Flip is seriously hurting both units. If you only ice 1 truly dangerous unit your opponent can play their best PKers, especially on home ice.

I wasn't going to even acknowledge the comment(s),but I never even alluded to Hudler and Filppula being the reason that we're down 2-0. I was just pointing out that if Babcock is going to continue to say that his decisons for sitting a player is to ice the best team possible, it seems there could be other options.

Maybe the offense wakes up when things get back here, but until then I'm going to be wondering why Fil can hold on to the puck coming into the zone but always pulls up and looks pass at the top of the circle. Or why Hudler doesn't hang around those "soft areas" where Hull and Shanny used to make their money, since he has that wicked wrister.

There are very few players that are playing to their ability right now and we are in a 2-0 hole. I guess I could take a page from the Wings PR book and say, "we need to play better defensively; we need to stop taking penalties; we need to forecheck stronger; the PP needs to be better...". But I would rather have a conversation about what changes can be made to shift this puppy back in our favor.

Right, but the changes you're talking about (at least about Fil) aren't where the problems are. Fil's play in this series hasn't been as good as it should be, but there are only 2 Wings that I can't say that about. Fil had amazing production in the first round, and when EVERYONE steps up their play, I'll put money on that Fil will be one of the top producers on the Wings in the playoffs.