Brooks Laich

[Konnan511 1,736]

This is not all that uncommon, look at the Wings roster and see how many guys are listed at center and who play the wing day in and day out. Laich has been hovering right around a 20 goal average for the last three years now, while playing on the left wing, not the center. He is very much like a version of Dan Cleary, with about the same offensive touch, but his size and good speed make him more dangerous because you can essentially put him on any of your top three lines and he can hold his own AND in many cases, force the defense to take him seriously and match up against him. That frees up a lot of ice for other wingers not used to getting the advantage of mismatches. He makes 2.4 million now. I'd pay up to 4 million for him and be a happy guy to do so. NOW, can anybody think of a way to dumb Hudler's contract if we get a top six forward? Is any team in the league in the market for a tiny dude, with below average speed, but above average shot and puck handling? I doubt it.

Rangers, they need help offensively badly.

[kipwinger 8,771]

Rangers, they need help offensively badly.

Good point...and history has shown that team is more than willing to invest a lot of money in questionable hockey players. HUDLER TO THE RANGERS IN 2011-2012!!!!

[newfy 695]

Laich is a better, younger version of Cleary. To say he is only deserving of Cleary money is a little absurd, he is worth more.

3.7 million or so could maybe reel him in, and he gives the wings some size and solid defensive play to go with offense.

Everyone is like "Oh no we cant overpay at all" but with a tonne of cap space whats the point of sitting around on it? Might as well overpay a bit to get this team back into cup winning form.

If what Babcock said is true and they want to add a top 6 player, Laich should be the number one choice. After Laich I'm "Laiching" (classic joke) Erik Cole as a potential top 6 player. He is another physical, big, point producer who can play in the top 6

[kipwinger 8,771]

Laich is a better, younger version of Cleary. To say he is only deserving of Cleary money is a little absurd, he is worth more.

3.7 million or so could maybe reel him in, and he gives the wings some size and solid defensive play to go with offense.

Everyone is like "Oh no we cant overpay at all" but with a tonne of cap space whats the point of sitting around on it? Might as well overpay a bit to get this team back into cup winning form.

If what Babcock said is true and they want to add a top 6 player, Laich should be the number one choice. After Laich I'm "Laiching" (classic joke) Erik Cole as a potential top 6 player. He is another physical, big, point producer who can play in the top 6

Yeah, you're dead on. First choice, Laich. Alternative in Cole, and a top four d-man and we're all set. We've got the money and the core, I think this should be a no brainer for the management.

Edited June 2, 2011 by kipwinger

[Red Wings Addict 787]

Laich can provide the role that the Wings will eventually have to replace when Bertuzzi and Holmstrom call it a career. He'd be awesome. Still seems like the chances are dead in the water though.

[kylee 727]

When has Erik Cole ever lived up to his hype? Do not want. I'd see what's up with Laich but no way at 4 mil.

[Datsyerberger 279]

When has Erik Cole ever lived up to his hype? Do not want. I'd see what's up with Laich but no way at 4 mil.

He's a 25-30g, 50-60p guy that plays with a serious physical edge, and he's lived up to that every year he's been healthy.

Unfortunately, health definitely is a concern with him, though he did manage to have a good year this last season. I'd take him for the right price.

[achildr1 255]

He's a 25-30g, 50-60p guy that plays with a serious physical edge, and he's lived up to that every year he's been healthy.

Unfortunately, health definitely is a concern with him, though he did manage to have a good year this last season. I'd take him for the right price.

This is actually a huge thing to consider when signing someone this offseason. Cleary, Franzen, and Holmstrom all miss large amounts of time each year. We don't need to sign another guy that only plays 60 games a year.

[Buppy 1,720]

Laich can provide the role that the Wings will eventually have to replace when Bertuzzi and Holmstrom call it a career. He'd be awesome. Still seems like the chances are dead in the water though.

The bold is why I'd like him. I think he's one of the few forwards available who could really fit in with the team moving forward.

Not sure why you think there's no chance for him, though. Something I haven't heard, maybe.

[Datsyerberger 279]

The bold is why I'd like him. I think he's one of the few forwards available who could really fit in with the team moving forward.

Not sure why you think there's no chance for him, though. Something I haven't heard, maybe.

IF Washington doesn't re-sign them, other teams will pay in the $4-4.5m range. Not-so-longshot that some bonehead pays him near $5, but I'd call him going for $4-4.5 almost certain. That's a lot to pay for Dan Cleary v1.5

[kipwinger 8,771]

Just a little something interesting to look at when trying to determine how much Laich is worth...

Since 2005-2006 season:

Laich: 470 games played, 100 goals, 136 assists, 236 pts., +14...salary 2.4 million.

Franzen: 395 games played, 121 goals, 98 assists, 219 pts., +63...salary 5 million.

Also, here's Cleary's career numbers since 1997-1998

Cleary: 746 games played, 139 goals, 190 assists, 329 pts., +25...salary 3 million

I'm not sure whether who is over valued, who is undervalued, or who's a little bit of both. But with those numbers it's not unreasonable that Laich will get paid 4-5 million and be worth the money.

And before anyone suggests that Laich's numbers are inflated because of Washington's "high powered" offense, there's this...since, 2005-2006, Washington has only once had more "Goals For" than Detroit has. Here's a link to back up my statement...http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/stats/byteam?cat=teamstats&cut_type=0&sort=404&conference=NHL&year=season_2005

Edited June 3, 2011 by kipwinger

[Datsyerberger 279]

Just a little something interesting to look at when trying to determine how much Laich is worth...

Since 2005-2006 season:

Laich: 470 games played, 100 goals, 136 assists, 236 pts., +14...salary 2.4 million.

Franzen: 395 games played, 121 goals, 98 assists, 219 pts., +63...salary 5 million.

Also, here's Cleary's career numbers since 1997-1998

Cleary: 746 games played, 139 goals, 190 assists, 329 pts., +25...salary 3 million

I'm not sure whether who is over valued, who is undervalued, or who's a little bit of both. But with those numbers it's not unreasonable that Laich will get paid 4-5 million and be worth the money.

Franzen's cap hit is ~$4m, not $5m. Still, I agree mostly with your post. Franzen's cap hit is lowered by his contract being super long term + hometown discount, even Cleary's is a bit of a deal at this point. Laich being paid $4-5m will be worth the money... on the right team. I don't think we're that team, though. We need a different type of offense/play than what he brings (even though I have great respect for both his style of play and his off-ice personality. I certainly wouldn't be unhappy with him).

[egroen 384]

Laich would be slotted at third-line center most nights; he's a grittier player than Flip and would match up better against third lines, and is as good or better than Flip on faceoffs. Flip would move to wing in a top-two line capacity with Dats or Z, barring injury.

If the Wings go one defenseman and one forward, I'm hoping for Pitkanen and Laich. Pitkanen takes on Ericsson's job as the big, physical defenseman but also provides offense as Rafalski did. Meech comes in and takes Rafalski's spot as the quick, offensive-minded playmaking defenseman who runs the PP. Kindl finally takes Salei's job, as he had been positioned to do at the end of last year, but also provides another skilled offensive player. Janik is the new spare, providing a solid stay-at-home type who won't wander off.

I'd prefer the Wings go for two defensemen (Pitkanen/Ehrhoff preferably) than one and one, but you get what you get.

Meech isn't that bad, but I'll be awfully disappointed if I see him running power plays next year, especially considering the $$$ Holland has to work with this summer.

[eva unit zero 271]

Meech isn't that bad, but I'll be awfully disappointed if I see him running power plays next year, especially considering the $$ Holland has to work with this summer.

Assuming high-end contracts for UFAs and a cap of $62.2m:

Johan Franzen ($3.954m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Daniel Cleary ($2.800m)

Brooks Laich ($5.000m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Jiri Hudler ($2.875m)

Tomas Holmstrom ($1.875m) / Valtteri Filppula ($3.000m) / Todd Bertuzzi ($1.937m)

Jan Mursak ($0.550m) / Darren Helm ($0.912m) / Patrick Eaves ($0.975m)

Justin Abdelkader ($0.787m) / Cory Emmerton ($0.533m)

Nicklas Lidstrom ($5.000m) / Derek Meech ($0.550m)

Niklas Kronwall ($3.000m) / Brad Stuart ($3.750m)

Jakub Kindl ($0.883m) / Joni Pitkanen ($6.000m)

Doug Janik ($0.512m)

Jimmy Howard ($2.250m) / Chris Osgood ($0.750m)

CAP PAYROLL: $60,679,544

CAP SPACE: $1,520,456

Yes, that's a fair amount of cap space. But it can pay for a high-end player at the deadline; we're talking someone worth $5-$6m.

You may wonder why I have Meech with Lidstrom. There is a perfectly logical reason. The outgoing defensemen from the top-six are Rafalski, Ericsson, and Salei. Incoming are Meech, Kindl, and Pitkanen. While Lidstrom did not play with Rafalski outside of the power play last season, he played mostly with him the prior few seasons. Meech is the most similar to Rafalski in playing style, so it should be a good match. Also, it allows for the development of potential long-term pairings in Kronwall/Stuart and Kindl/Pitkanen.

At forward, I wasn't really sure how I wanted to lay out the wingers, outside of two facts; Holmstrom should not be opposite Hudler, and Bertuzzi should flank Filppula. Given Hudler's success alongside Datsyuk, and the fact that Homer seems to perform better with Flip than Z, that settled three of six. I'd be perfectly fine with Franzen/Zetterberg/Laich also, however Cleary and Hudler seem more comfortable playing the right side than Franzen or Laich. The fourth line I am most certainly comfortable with, and determined to see cause havoc this coming season.

As for special teams, the defensemen I would expect on PP would be Lidstrom, Kronwall, and a rotation of Pitkanen, Kindl, and Meech. On the PK I would expect Kronwall, Stuart, Lidstrom, and Pitkanen. Look for Janik to get significant time here in games he dresses.

[egroen 384]

Fine ideas aside from Meech. It won't happen, he's as good as he is ever going to get and there is no chance in hell Lidstrom's possibly last season is wasted on a guy with the Wings on borrowed time. Smith has a better shot next year, and I do not even think he will make the team.

[eva unit zero 271]

Fine ideas aside from Meech. It won't happen, he's as good as he is ever going to get and there is no chance in hell Lidstrom's possibly last season is wasted on a guy with the Wings on borrowed time. Smith has a better shot next year, and I do not even think he will make the team.

I'm fine with the roster I posted, but I would like to see an extra $3m appear somehow from the contracts of Pitkanen, Lidstrom, and Laich. In that situation, the Wings can pick up an Ehrhoff, Bieksa, or Wisniewski, or even a Greene if the $3m doesn't show up, instead of going with Meech.

Edited June 4, 2011 by eva unit zero

[kipwinger 8,771]

I'm fine with the roster I posted, but I would like to see an extra $3m appear somehow from the contracts of Pitkanen, Lidstrom, and Laich. In that situation, the Wings can pick up an Ehrhoff, Bieksa, or Wisniewski, or even a Greene if the $3m doesn't show up, instead of going with Meech.

I'm not sure why you're married to this Pitkanan idea. He already makes a million dollars more than Wiz, Erhoff, or Bieksa (and will cost more to sign) but with similar numbers, he shoots left and we need a right handed shot to replace Rafalski on the powerplay, and like Ericsson, he's real big but doesn't play physical or impose on anyone with his size. I'd pass.

[Konnan511 1,736]

For forwards: Cody McCormick or Michael Rupp plus Fiddler to upgrade our already stellar bottom two lines. Do not re-sign Miller. These two guys are as good as Miller, plus have no problems throwing down.

2.5mil cap hit for two of these three players total.

For defense: Jay Harrison and Hamrlik. Harrison is an upgrade over Ericsson and Salei, plus he is big and physical and likes to punch faces while putting up points. Hamrlik will put up 30+ points and finish +10 and will be a suitable stop gap for Rafalski and will play 75+ games.

about 5mil cap hit for both these guys combined.

Leaving us with a ton of cap space to use at the trade deadline to pick up Richards from whatever team he hinder with his cap hit.

[eva unit zero 271]

I'm not sure why you're married to this Pitkanan idea. He already makes a million dollars more than Wiz, Erhoff, or Bieksa (and will cost more to sign) but with similar numbers, he shoots left and we need a right handed shot to replace Rafalski on the powerplay, and like Ericsson, he's real big but doesn't play physical or impose on anyone with his size. I'd pass.

Pitkanen is just as physical as Brad Stuart or Niklas Kronwall or any of the defensemen being mentioned in his place. So he doesn't have a right-handed shot... I guess he won't be able to shoot because he'll be looking at the boards. Or he could just position himself properly on the ice. left-handed or right-handed shot isn't like having a lefty and righty pitcher. The only effects your shooting hand has are where you shoot/pass from, where you receive the puck, and how you take faceoffs. If we're talking about specialty needs, the Wings need a righty faceoff man (Steve Yzerman!) before they need a righty point shot.

[Datsyerberger 279]

Pitkanen is just as physical as Brad Stuart or Niklas Kronwall or any of the defensemen being mentioned in his place. So he doesn't have a right-handed shot... I guess he won't be able to shoot because he'll be looking at the boards. Or he could just position himself properly on the ice. left-handed or right-handed shot isn't like having a lefty and righty pitcher. The only effects your shooting hand has are where you shoot/pass from, where you receive the puck, and how you take faceoffs. If we're talking about specialty needs, the Wings need a righty faceoff man (Steve Yzerman!) before they need a righty point shot.

Or we could just get Pitkanen AND a right handed shot and knock out two stoners with one bird. Or something like that.

[newfy 695]

Pitkanen is just as physical as Brad Stuart or Niklas Kronwall or any of the defensemen being mentioned in his place. So he doesn't have a right-handed shot... I guess he won't be able to shoot because he'll be looking at the boards. Or he could just position himself properly on the ice. left-handed or right-handed shot isn't like having a lefty and righty pitcher. The only effects your shooting hand has are where you shoot/pass from, where you receive the puck, and how you take faceoffs. If we're talking about specialty needs, the Wings need a righty faceoff man (Steve Yzerman!) before they need a righty point shot.

Couldnt be further from the truth. I wouldnt mind seeing Pitkanen in Detroit, but you dont have to make stuff up to try and sound like he is a better option than he really is.

[eva unit zero 271]

Or we could just get Pitkanen AND a right handed shot and knock out two stoners with one bird. Or something like that.

Pitkanen and Bieksa? Pitkanen and Wisniewski?

[Datsyerberger 279]

Pitkanen and Bieksa? Pitkanen and Wisniewski?

Would like it to be Bieksa, don't think he's leaving the Nucks. That leaves Wiz or Babchuk. Either way, Pitkanen + Wiz/Babchuk = goodbye defense, though at least some grit and puck movement will be there.

I actually don't mind Babchuk. Here's an interview from him a handful of years ago when he said "lol no u" to the Canes putting him back in the AHL. Rather insightful fellow, actually. Seems rather ambitious. Not a bad thing... if it's focused well.

http://www.russianprospects.com/public/article.php?article_id=525

Edited June 6, 2011 by Datsyerberger

[kipwinger 8,771]

Franzen's cap hit is ~$4m, not $5m. Still, I agree mostly with your post. Franzen's cap hit is lowered by his contract being super long term + hometown discount, even Cleary's is a bit of a deal at this point. Laich being paid $4-5m will be worth the money... on the right team. I don't think we're that team, though. We need a different type of offense/play than what he brings (even though I have great respect for both his style of play and his off-ice personality. I certainly wouldn't be unhappy with him).

I didn't say his Franzen's cap hit was 5 million, I said his SALARY was 5 million. They had these awesome things called graduated contracts, now largely invalidated by the Kovalchuk deal, which allowed players to make more money up front than they did at the end of their very long contracts. Cap hit is only half the battle. Of course, it matters a lot when you're putting your team on the ice, but when you're trying to lure good players to your city, salary is the most important number. How much of a cap hit we take is all in how the contract is structured. Here's a list of all the Wings contracts from 2010-2011. Notice how most of the cap hits are lower than the amount the player actually goes home with at the end of the year?...Hmmmmm.

You'll also notice that Draper, Abdelkader, and Osgood's cap hits are higher than their salaries. Structured contracts dude, it's all about the structure.

http://www.sportscit...-Wings-Salaries

Edited June 7, 2011 by kipwinger

[Datsyerberger 279]

I didn't say his Franzen's cap hit was 5 million, I said his SALARY was 5 million. They had these awesome things called graduated contracts, now largely invalidated by the Kovalchuk deal, which allowed players to make more money up front than they did at the end of their very long contracts. Cap hit is only half the battle. Of course, it matters a lot when you're putting your team on the ice, but when you're trying to lure good players to your city, salary is the most important number. How much of a cap hit we take is all in how the contract is structured. Here's a list of all the Wings contracts from 2010-2011. Notice how most of the cap hits are lower than the amount the player actually goes home with at the end of the year?...Hmmmmm.

You'll also notice that Draper, Abdelkader, and Osgood's cap hits are higher than their salaries. Structured contracts dude, it's all about the structure.

http://www.sportscit...-Wings-Salaries

Cap hit is the only thing that matters to a wealthy team like Detroit. Salary is still very easily modulated through graduated contracts even after the Kovalchuk mess, there's just a bit more limitations and a bit more expectation to use caution. The primary concern with the Kovalchuk type contracts was large tails of small salary that extended well past the veterancy age. Avoid that, peachy. They didn't change the structure rules, just an age modifier (40+ tails don't count towards cap hit). Something legal but ridiculous like 11, 11, 11, 11 5.5, 1, 1, 1 (with 1, 1, 1) occuring at ages 37, 38, and 39) might face scrutiny as well. 31 year old signed to a salary worth 9.9/year over the first 5 years, but a cap hit of just over 6.

Listing salary of already signed players is pointless in a discussion about caphits unless you're talking about a brokeass team, period. Using salary was an attempt to inflate numbers for the sake of your argument, which would have been perfectly valid without said inflation. You were talking worth, worth is all about cap hit to competing teams. Don't try to jerk me around.

Edited June 8, 2011 by Datsyerberger