Unbiased Assessment of Each Player

[Guest Moves Like Jagr]

Hey everyone! Long time lurker here. Finally have something to post, so I figured I would make an account.

I've noticed that everyone has been extremely pessimistic towards our players (I wonder why...) so I wanted to give my take on how I think each player has actually been playing. So, heeeeere we goooo with my book report on the Red Wings thus far:

Forwards:

Justin Abdelkader: (B) Taking Abdelkader for what he is, he has not played bad. He is not a guy who is going to score 20 goals or be a major force offensively, but he usually plays solid defensively and has been very good on the forecheck. Through 11 games he has 1 goal and 1 assist with an even rating, obviously, you would like to see him contribute a little more offensively or atleast drop the mitts more, but for what we expect from him, he has more or less met the expectations of him.

Dan Cleary: (D+) Where to start with Cleary. The problem with him is that he is one of those guys who probably won't contribute by himself, he needs skilled players around him. However, even when playing in the top 6, he hasn't contributed much. For a guy who was on a tear last night, you would obviously like to see him score much more because quite frankly his 1 goal and 2 assists through 11 games with a minus 3 rating is not acceptable for him.

Pavel Datsyuk: (B) Historically, Datsyuk is a slow starter, but this season seems extra slow for him. He just seems off. A lot of bad passes and poor shot selection. His backchecking has been typical of him (meaning incredible), but he is a -5 right now. Unacceptable for Datsyuk. He does have 2 goals and 6 assists through the first 11 though, so his production is on par as always, but defensively, he needs to step his game up.

Gustav Nyquist: (Inc) Can't really give Nyquist a grade seeing how he didn't get much of a chance to play. Hopefully in the future he will be given more opportunity.

Patrick Eaves: ( C ) Hurt by injuries and has been a healthy scratch. Not too much you can say about Eaves seeing how he has only played six games.

Drew Miller: ( C ) Honestly, I don't know what Drew Miller brings to the table. Why he is ever chosen over Eaves or even Brunnstrum, who wasn't given much of a chance so far, is beyond me. He is solid defensively and on the PK (which apparently is a rarity on this team?), but other than that, you can't expect much from him. 0 goals, 2 assists, and a plus 2 through 9 games, which I guess is on pace for what is expected of him production.

Jiri Hudler: (C+) Here's the problem with Hudler, if he isn't playing in the top six, he won't contribute. This isn't 2008 or 2009 when he was playing on the third line with Filppula and Samuelsson (which for the record is a incredible third line).You can't stick him with Abdelkader or Bertuzzi and expect him to produce. That's not his game. The bottom line is that he needs to play with Datsyuk. That will probably be the only way he will play to his potential. Overall I don't think he has been as bad as everyone thinks. He's been working hard and has logged 2 goals and 2 assists and a plus 1 rating in 10 games, which is a little below where you would like to see him at this point, but production is down across the board. What worries me is two things: First, his 12 PIM (way too high for him) and second, he only has 10 shots in 10 games. Definitely needs to shoot the puck more.

Henrik Zetterberg: (C-) 2 goals, 2 assists, and -6. That should pretty much speak for itself. What is going on with Zetterberg? Is it just that he has simply lost a step? Is he not the player he used to be? Even when playing with Datsyuk he couldn't get anything going, even with a ridiculous 48 shots. I wouldn't be surprised if he was injured.

Darren Helm: (A) Darren Helm might be one of the Red Wings best player through the first 11 games. He is easily the hardest working player on the team. Never takes a shift off. Last night against Calgary his line was clearly the best and I think Helm needs to be rewarded with more ice time.

Todd Bertuzzi: (D) Can somebody tell me where Bertuzzi fits in on this team? This guy needs to be a healthy scratch every night. Overall, he is just playing bad hockey. His 18 PIM are leading the team and his physical play is almost non-existent.

Cory Emmerton: (A) For being a rookie playing his first set up NHL games, Emmerton has been very good. He has a goal and an assist with a plus rating, so you can't really say anything too bad about him.

Valtteri Filppula: (A-) I know a lot of people on this forum like to hate on Fil, but at the end of the day, he has been on of our best players. He started off the season on fire, then like everyone else, went cold. His defensive play has been solid (per usual) and he has even contributed much more than he should offensively with 2 goals, 5 assists and a plus 3 rating through 11 games. The stat that really sticks out for me is that he has 20 shots (just as much as Franzen).

Fabian Brunnstrom: (Inc) Hasn't been given much of a chance to prove he belongs.

Johan Franzen: (B) 20 shots for The Mule is unacceptable. He is our best goal scorer and needs to start acting like it. He does have 4 goals and 3 assists so far, which is on par for his usual season, but I feel like over the last few seasons his scoring has become much more inconsistent. For now, we'll just blame it on the whole team playing poorly.

Tomas Holmstrom: (C+) He still has the fire, that's for sure. Despite diminishing minutes, he has still posted a goal and three assists in 9 games with a plus rating and has been his usual pesky self on the power play. Overall, he has been pretty solid.

Defense:

Jakub Kindl: (B) Not a bad start to Kindl's first full season in the NHL. He has played much better than I expected him to, logging two assists, and has not made too many rookie mistakes. Overall, pretty good play from Kindl.

Nicklas Lidstrom: (A) The Captain has been our best player. Period.

Ian White: (B-) I never expected him to replace Brian Rafalski, so with that in mind, he has been a pretty solid addition. Not a gamebreaker by any means, but he has been good overall and a solid pickup for the Wings.

Mike Commodore: (Inc) Played has first game against Calgary and did not look too bad. However, he does look incredibly slow. If he can chip in offensively once every 6 games and post a plus rating, I think everyone will be happy with him. Plus, he is not afraid to fight, so we have that to look forward to.

Brad Stuart: (C-) No goals, no assists, and a minus 4 rating. For a guy logging top four minutes, that is unacceptable.

Jonathan Ericsson: (C+) For what I was expecting from Ericsson (which is nothing less than horrendous play), he has actually started off the season pretty well. Him and Kindl have gelled surprisingly well and with one assist and a plus 3, I would say Ericsson is in much better shape than last season. One thing every Wings fan must be glad about is his lack of bonehead mistakes, which have plagued him in the past.

Niklas Kronwall: ( C ) For a guy who just got rewarded with a lifetime contract, Kronwall has not responded very well. He has one goal and two assists but has a horrible -6 rating. Definitely needs to up his game.

Goalies:

Ty Conklin: (C-) He had the horrendous game in Washington, but other than that, he hasn't been too bad. Hopefully he can shape up to be the capable backup that he was in 2009.

Jimmy Howard: (B-) The difference between a good goalie and a great goalie is that a great goalie can steal games. At some point Howard needs to do this because while he has played well during this span of losses, he is still unproven as an elite goaltender.

So there it is, my assessment of each player so far. Sorry for making it incredibly long!

Edited November 4, 2011 by Moves Like Jagr

[jollymania 162]

Emmerton has been awful, especially in that caps game.

[Reds4Life 51]

I agree with the assessment, although I would give a "D" to Zetterberg.

[hooon 1,089]

I'd rate Howard a little higher, personally. While it might not show on the scoreboard, he's been the best player most nights and he was robbed of a few games.

And even though Mule is leading us in goals, given his play the past few games I might demote him a little.

Good assessment overall.

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

Fair assessment, although I have a hard time giving Franzen's lazy ass a "B", no matter how many points he scored earlier in the season. Pretty sure everyone would get a "D" or "F" for the last 6 games, for that matter.

And Howard stealing games is not something we're likely to see on a consistent level. He's not that caliber of a goalie.

[dragonballgtz 273]

Pavel Datsyuk: (B) Historically, Datsyuk is a slow starter, but this season seems extra slow for him. He just seems off. A lot of bad passes and poor shot selection. His backchecking has been typical of him (meaning incredible), but he is a -5 right now. Unacceptable for Datsyuk. He does have 2 goals and 6 assists through the first 11 though, so his production is on par as always, but defensively, he needs to step his game up.

Jiri Hudler: (C+) Here's the problem with Hudler, if he isn't playing in the top six, he won't contribute. This isn't 2008 or 2009 when he was playing on the third line with Filppula and Samuelsson (which for the record is a incredible third line).You can't stick him with Abdelkader or Bertuzzi and expect him to produce. That's not his game. The bottom line is that he needs to play with Datsyuk. That will probably be the only way he will play to his potential. Overall I don't think he has been as bad as everyone thinks. He's been working hard and has logged 2 goals and 2 assists and a plus 1 rating in 10 games, which is a little below where you would like to see him at this point, but production is down across the board. What worries me is two things: First, his 12 PIM (way too high for him) and second, he only has 10 shots in 10 games. Definitely needs to shoot the puck more.

Henrik Zetterberg: (C-) 2 goals, 2 assists, and -6. That should pretty much speak for itself. What is going on with Zetterberg? Is it just that he has simply lost a step? Is he not the player he used to be? Even when playing with Datsyuk he couldn't get anything going, even with a ridiculous 48 shots. I wouldn't be surprised if he was injured.

Valtteri Filppula: (A-) I know a lot of people on this forum like to hate on Fil, but at the end of the day, he has been on of our best players. He started off the season on fire, then like everyone else, went cold. His defensive play has been solid (per usual) and he has even contributed much more than he should offensively with 2 goals, 5 assists and a plus 3 rating through 11 games. The stat that really sticks out for me is that he has 20 shots (just as much as Franzen).

Johan Franzen: (B) 20 shots for The Mule is unacceptable. He is our best goal scorer and needs to start acting like it. He does have 4 goals and 3 assists so far, which is on par for his usual season, but I feel like over the last few seasons his scoring has become much more inconsistent. For now, we'll just blame it on the whole team playing poorly.

I know this is your opinion but there is no way that Flip and Franzen should have those grades. Datsyuk would be a C, Z an F, Mule F, Flip D. They had this issue last year with just disappearing no way that is acceptable this year.

[eva unit zero 271]

I find it amusing that the title of the thread is "unbiased" when the ratings clearly are different for different levels of players. Case in point: Emmerton gets an A, Datsyuk gets a B? Emmerton has been good on most nights he's played, but he has NOT outplayed Datsyuk.

With that said:

I rated players along this scale:

For skaters,

A+ means a star player.

A means a #1 forward or defenseman.

B means a #4 forward or #2/3 defenseman

C means a #7 forward or #4/5 defenseman

D means a #10 forward or # 6 defenseman

F means a spare player or AHLer.

For goalies,

A+ means a star player

A means a top end #1 goalie

C means a top end backup

F means a third stringer/AHLer

You can figure out the pluses and minuses (and the missing letters on the goalie scale)

Datsyuk A-

Filppula B+

Helm B

Franzen B-

Zetterberg C+

Holmstrom C+

Hudler C+

Emmerton C

Abdelkader C-

Eaves C-

Miller C-

Cleary D

Bertuzzi D-

Brunnstrom Inc.

Nyquist Inc.

Mursak Inc.

Lidstrom A+

White B

Kronwall B

Kindl B-

Ericsson C

Stuart D

Commodore Inc.

Howard B

Conklin F

That's how I would grade them. Going forward I expect significant improvement from Cleary and Zetterberg in particular (I expect a B- and an A+, respectively), as both have been hindered by injury. I think Hudler also can improve upon his C+ (B- expected, would love to see a B+ or an A-), and Homer has looked better in the past couple games than most of the team so I wouldn't be shocked to see his grade go up.

Let's check back at the halfway mark!

EDIT:

Based on my grades (top to bottom) here are some lines, assuming Helm (not a scoring center) stays in the bottom six, and the 4th line gets a center, as well as that Homer and Hudler don't play on the same line.

Filppula/Datsyuk/Hudler

Average grade: B (Good 2nd line)

Franzen/Zetterberg/Holmstrom

Average grade: C+ (Bad 2nd line)

Emmerton/Helm/Eaves

Average grade: C (Good 3rd line)

Cleary/Abdelkader/Miller

Average grade: D+ (Bad 3rd line)

Not pretty, is it? At the bottom it's nice... at the top, not so much. On defense it would work like this:

Lidstrom/White

Average grade: A- (Average 1st pairing)

Kronwall/Kindl

Average grade: B (Good 2nd pairing)

Ericsson/Stuart

Average grade: C- (Average 3rd pairing)

Of course this is all simply based on individual grades; no idea how chemistry would affect performance; see Filppula/Franzen/Hudler for the four games they were together (17 points) vs. the seven games they have been apart (1 point)

Edited November 5, 2011 by eva unit zero

[dat's sick 1,002]

I gotta say I think Eva's ratings are much more reasonable and more in line with how I'd rate them myself.

Bottom line though is that right now there are a lot of players that need to improve..

[Aussie_Wing 354]

I find it amusing that the title of the thread is "unbiased" when the ratings clearly are different for different levels of players. Case in point: Emmerton gets an A, Datsyuk gets a B? Emmerton has been good on most nights he's played, but he has NOT outplayed Datsyuk.

Well dur, but they are on different playing and judging scales. Emmerton's a rookie, Datsyuk's a, what, 10 year pro?

[esteef 2,679]

None of those players has a fight in any of the losses, that's the problem.

esteef

[Finnish Wing 110]

None of those players has a fight in any of the losses, that's the problem.

esteef

Yes. Clearly.

[Lonewuhf 47]

I know this is your opinion but there is no way that Flip and Franzen should have those grades. Datsyuk would be a C, Z an F, Mule F, Flip D. They had this issue last year with just disappearing no way that is acceptable this year.

You've bashed Fil in pretty much every post you post, what's your deal? If you've actually been watching the games you'd see that he's consistently one of our hardest working players.

[WorkingOvertime 536]

I find it amusing that the title of the thread is "unbiased" when the ratings clearly are different for different levels of players. Case in point: Emmerton gets an A, Datsyuk gets a B? Emmerton has been good on most nights he's played, but he has NOT outplayed Datsyuk.

With that said:

I rated players along this scale:

For skaters,

A+ means a star player.

A means a #1 forward or defenseman.

B means a #4 forward or #2/3 defenseman

C means a #7 forward or #4/5 defenseman

D means a #10 forward or # 6 defenseman

F means a spare player or AHLer.

For goalies,

A+ means a star player

A means a top end #1 goalie

C means a top end backup

F means a third stringer/AHLer

You can figure out the pluses and minuses (and the missing letters on the goalie scale)

Datsyuk A-

Filppula B+

Helm B

Franzen B-

Zetterberg C+

Holmstrom C+

Hudler C+

Emmerton C

Abdelkader C-

Eaves C-

Miller C-

Cleary D

Bertuzzi D-

Brunnstrom Inc.

Nyquist Inc.

Mursak Inc.

Lidstrom A+

White B

Kronwall B

Kindl B-

Ericsson C

Stuart D

Commodore Inc.

Howard B

Conklin F

That's how I would grade them. Going forward I expect significant improvement from Cleary and Zetterberg in particular (I expect a B- and an A+, respectively), as both have been hindered by injury. I think Hudler also can improve upon his C+ (B- expected, would love to see a B+ or an A-), and Homer has looked better in the past couple games than most of the team so I wouldn't be shocked to see his grade go up.

Let's check back at the halfway mark!

EDIT:

Based on my grades (top to bottom) here are some lines, assuming Helm (not a scoring center) stays in the bottom six, and the 4th line gets a center, as well as that Homer and Hudler don't play on the same line.

Filppula/Datsyuk/Hudler

Average grade: B (Good 2nd line)

Franzen/Zetterberg/Holmstrom

Average grade: C+ (Bad 2nd line)

Emmerton/Helm/Eaves

Average grade: C (Good 3rd line)

Cleary/Abdelkader/Miller

Average grade: D+ (Bad 3rd line)

Not pretty, is it? At the bottom it's nice... at the top, not so much. On defense it would work like this:

Lidstrom/White

Average grade: A- (Average 1st pairing)

Kronwall/Kindl

Average grade: B (Good 2nd pairing)

Ericsson/Stuart

Average grade: C- (Average 3rd pairing)

Of course this is all simply based on individual grades; no idea how chemistry would affect performance; see Filppula/Franzen/Hudler for the four games they were together (17 points) vs. the seven games they have been apart (1 point)

Hudler over Z? Eaves and Emmerton over Abby? By what measure?

[Lonewuhf 47]

Hudler over Z? Eaves and Emmerton over Abby? By what measure?

I don't think many here would rate Z over Hudler right now. They have the same amount of points, Z gets paid over twice as much as Hudler and gets ~10 mins more per game in ice time. There's NO excuse for this.

However, I do think Abby should be rated above Eaves and Emmerton.

[WorkingOvertime 536]

I don't think many here would rate Z over Hudler right now. They have the same amount of points, Z gets paid over twice as much as Hudler and gets ~10 mins more per game in ice time. There's NO excuse for this.

However, I do think Abby should be rated above Eaves and Emmerton.

In regards to Z, that wasn't Eva's ranking (salary based). He ranked the players based on skill/line ability. Therefore, Huds over Z is reaching IMO. Grade per dollar is significantly different. Who would you rather have on the ice in an important situation? Based on play this year, I would pick Z hands down.

The problem with the Wings this year is chemistry. The skill is there (to be in a playoff position), the defense is there, and the goaltending is there. The team, as a whole, is not.

[dragonballgtz 273]

You've bashed Fil in pretty much every post you post, what's your deal? If you've actually been watching the games you'd see that he's consistently one of our hardest working players.

I watch games. When I see Flip having the chance to crash the net or go into more dangerous scoring areas he doesn't. All he does is pass back to the defense or pass it to someone else while he goes the long way around the net. He had two good games in which he got most of his points after that, thats it. Not willing to pay the price to get some goals. This is the same message that Babs tried to get him to understand last year.

[Guest Crymson]

I watch games. When I see Flip having the chance to crash the net or go into more dangerous scoring areas he doesn't. All he does is pass back to the defense or pass it to someone else while he goes the long way around the net. He had two good games in which he got most of his points after that, thats it. Not willing to pay the price to get some goals. This is the same message that Babs tried to get him to understand last year.

He's been shooting quite a bit this year---more than ever.

[dragonballgtz 273]

He's been shooting quite a bit this year---more than ever.

They are not dangerous shots though. All these shots we are taking are from the outside, its like watching the DET vs ANA series from 03 all over again.

Last game near the end of the 1st Flip had a great chance to score and take it to the net but he decided to pass it back to the defensemen instead. I was screaming at my TV when he made that pass. I couldn't believe that he didn't use his speed to get around the defensmen covering him.

[Red Wings Addict 787]

Maybe the locker room has turned into the old Flyers locker room. Some teammates turn Emma into a triple threat or something?

[eva unit zero 271]

Well dur, but they are on different playing and judging scales. Emmerton's a rookie, Datsyuk's a, what, 10 year pro?

Maybe on your scale. Not on mine, if you actually read my post.

Hudler over Z? Eaves and Emmerton over Abby? By what measure?

Hudler and Z were rated as about even; Z has been invisible for much of the season to-date, and for the first few games Hudler was absolutely stellar. Both have had plenty of bad games, so ultimately it comes down to the fact that Z has generally been less of an offensive presence despite playing so much more. Eaves and Abby were rated as about even, because Emmerton has generally looked pretty darn good but hasn't played a lot while Abby and Eaves played more per game but have been much more up or down. Abdelkader will either look like total crap, or have a strong game where he's out banging, creating space, an playing solid D. Emmerton has, almost every night he's played, been a solid defensive presence and generally reliable. Both have been sub-par on face-offs, so that's not something you can hit either on in a comparison.

I don't expect these ratings to hold through the 25-game mark... if they do I will NOT be a happy camper.

Edited November 5, 2011 by eva unit zero

[WorkingOvertime 536]

Maybe on your scale. Not on mine, if you actually read my post.

Hudler and Z were rated as about even; Z has been invisible for much of the season to-date, and for the first few games Hudler was absolutely stellar. Both have had plenty of bad games, so ultimately it comes down to the fact that Z has generally been less of an offensive presence despite playing so much more. Eaves and Abby were rated as about even, because Emmerton has generally looked pretty darn good but hasn't played a lot while Abby and Eaves played more per game but have been much more up or down. Abdelkader will either look like total crap, or have a strong game where he's out banging, creating space, an playing solid D. Emmerton has, almost every night he's played, been a solid defensive presence and generally reliable. Both have been sub-par on face-offs, so that's not something you can hit either on in a comparison.

I don't expect these ratings to hold through the 25-game mark... if they do I will NOT be a happy camper.

I can see how you would rank Huds and Z equally- they are both playing well below their potential. IMO the difference between the two players is that Z has still been creating chances (albeit not many), while Hudler hasn't. This isn't a knock on Hudler- he is just not the type of player to lead a line (he is best complimenting skilled players). This is why he looks decent/good with skilled players, and relatively useless with gritty players (Abby and Helm).

I am admittedly biased, but I think Abby and Helm (Homer if you include him too- his puck handling was good last game) have been the best players in the bottom six. Emmerton has played well enough, but he hasn't been able to create many chances. In the last few games Abby and Helm have created more chances than either of the top-2 lines (not counting PP). Abby is first in hits and sixth in shots (below only the top PP line), and Helm is tied for first in plus-minus. These two are playing, the past 5 games, well above their place(s) on the depth chart. I can't think of any other forwards on the team who are doing the same.

Edited November 5, 2011 by WorkingOvertime

[HelmFan 84]

I am admittedly biased, but I think Abby and Helm (Homer if you include him too- his puck handling was good last game) have been the best players in the bottom six. Emmerton has played well enough, but he hasn't been able to create many chances. In the last few games Abby and Helm have created more chances than either of the top-2 lines (not counting PP). Abby is first in hits and sixth in shots (below only the top PP line), and Helm is tied for first in plus-minus. These two are playing, the past 5 games, well above their place(s) on the depth chart. I can't think of any other forwards on the team who are doing the same.

I just checked: Helm hasn't been on the ice for an even strength goal against yet.

[eva unit zero 271]

I can see how you would rank Huds and Z equally- they are both playing well below their potential. IMO the difference between the two players is that Z has still been creating chances (albeit not many), while Hudler hasn't. This isn't a knock on Hudler- he is just not the type of player to lead a line (he is best complimenting skilled players). This is why he looks decent/good with skilled players, and relatively useless with gritty players (Abby and Helm).

I am admittedly biased, but I think Abby and Helm (Homer if you include him too- his puck handling was good last game) have been the best players in the bottom six. Emmerton has played well enough, but he hasn't been able to create many chances. In the last few games Abby and Helm have created more chances than either of the top-2 lines (not counting PP). Abby is first in hits and sixth in shots (below only the top PP line), and Helm is tied for first in plus-minus. These two are playing, the past 5 games, well above their place(s) on the depth chart. I can't think of any other forwards on the team who are doing the same.

This is where ice time and linemates become a factor. Helm creates most of the chances on that line; the other night against Minnesota Abdelkader being out of position turned a sure goal into a non-chance. He got a breakaway shortly after, but he managed to give Harding no trouble. Emmerton has only played two games since the Washington debacle, and has looked decent. He was one of the team's better forwards in the first 5 games.

Abdelkader has been getting insane amounts of ice time; he's played first-line ice time some games. Yet he only has two points. Emmerton has been more of an offensive catalyst; he just doesn't play as much.

I think a lot of people are giving Abs credit for success caused by Helm. People look at the Abs/Helm/Bert line and think "I remember that line, they were noticeable, I rmember seeing them on the ice! They must have made a difference!" No, they just played all the ******* time. More at ES than Filppula/Franzen/Hudler did, even though Flip/Mule/Huds posted 17 points in 4 games.

Abdelkader and Emmerton are about right where I rated them.

Edited November 5, 2011 by eva unit zero

[WorkingOvertime 536]

This is where ice time and linemates become a factor. Helm creates most of the chances on that line; the other night against Minnesota Abdelkader being out of position turned a sure goal into a non-chance. He got a breakaway shortly after, but he managed to give Harding no trouble. Emmerton has only played two games since the Washington debacle, and has looked decent. He was one of the team's better forwards in the first 5 games.

Abdelkader has been getting insane amounts of ice time; he's played first-line ice time some games. Yet he only has two points. Emmerton has been more of an offensive catalyst; he just doesn't play as much.

I think a lot of people are giving Abs credit for success caused by Helm. People look at the Abs/Helm/Bert line and think "I remember that line, they were noticeable, I rmember seeing them on the ice! They must have made a difference!" No, they just played all the ******* time. More at ES than Filppula/Franzen/Hudler did, even though Flip/Mule/Huds posted 17 points in 4 games.

Abdelkader and Emmerton are about right where I rated them.

This is all opinion, but I have to disagree on your assessment of Abby and Helm. Many of the chances they get are caused by Abby bringing physicality and Helm then getting the puck. For example, Helm's goal this season was caused by Abby retrieving the puck, fending off a player, and passing to Helm. Similarly, that line has had many chances that begin with Abby's play. Helm and Abby aren't the the type of players that are going to lead the team in scoring (regardless of minutes), but they can lead in plus/minus with solid-D and garbage goals. Abby has more than twice the amount of hits as Helm because he is a great fore-checker- he starts the play. That line is meant to fore-check the other team and create chances. If you don't think that Abby has had as much of an impact (or more) than Helm at ES, I'm not sure we're watching the game the same way.

Also, Abby's only goal this season was the game-winner. I'm not sure why you brought up Abby's break-away, as Helm isn't great at them himself.

[eva unit zero 271]

This is all opinion, but I have to disagree on your assessment of Abby and Helm. Many of the chances they get are caused by Abby bringing physicality and Helm then getting the puck. For example, Helm's goal this season was caused by Abby retrieving the puck, fending off a player, and passing to Helm. Similarly, that line has had many chances that begin with Abby's play. Helm and Abby aren't the the type of players that are going to lead the team in scoring (regardless of minutes), but they can lead in plus/minus with solid-D and garbage goals. Abby has more than twice the amount of hits as Helm because he is a great fore-checker- he starts the play. That line is meant to fore-check the other team and create chances. If you don't think that Abby has had as much of an impact (or more) than Helm at ES, I'm not sure we're watching the game the same way.

Also, Abby's only goal this season was the game-winner. I'm not sure why you brought up Abby's break-away, as Helm isn't great at them himself.

No, Helm isn't great at them. Neither are great on offense. But Helm is LIGHT YEARS ahead of Abby defensively. Both in what their best performance to date has been, as well as their performance this season.

I brought up Abby's breakaway as an example showing that even when he does create a chance, the likelihood that he will score is not very high compared to other players on the Wings' roster.