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unsaddleddonald

Top teams are looking to deal

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You are right. I thought he was only out 1 game and it was 4. Thanks for the correction.

Aside from that, I think you are going overboard on your analysis. Think back to 1996 and 1997 up until the playoffs when Colorado "owned" the Wings. The Shanahan trade really was huge, but we gave up Coffey and Primeau, who were good players. I don't see anything the Wings are willing to give up for a player like that this year.

This year, things will be different than last year. San Jose is a different team. Chicago is a different team. St. Louis is a very different team. Size means very little when you factor in grit and hard work. I see these things from the Wings more this year than last year. If you can't see it by their defensive play alone, then I can't help you. :)

What people want is for us to give up a s*** player for a exceptional one, and no team is going to make a trade for that. I would hope that Holland would NOT trade our future away. We have cap space, but what we don't have right now are prospects in the system that are exceptional players. I don't see the next Dats and Z in the system. I don't see the next Lids in the system either. I see good players, but no one who is going to light it up. When Z and Dats are gone, what are the Wings going to do if they traded away their future today?

Just something to think about. We have far too many people who believe that trading our future away right now is the way to go. We need to be more careful especially in the salary cap era.

Agreed. But the good news is that Holland can be trusted to do this.

Edited by rick zombo
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...

What people want is for us to give up a s*** player for a exceptional one, and no team is going to make a trade for that. I would hope that Holland would NOT trade our future away. We have cap space, but what we don't have right now are prospects in the system that are exceptional players. I don't see the next Dats and Z in the system. I don't see the next Lids in the system either. I see good players, but no one who is going to light it up. When Z and Dats are gone, what are the Wings going to do if they traded away their future today?

Just something to think about. We have far too many people who believe that trading our future away right now is the way to go. We need to be more careful especially in the salary cap era.

If we were adding a player like Parise or Ryan, they would be our future (Parise would be a risk, but we have the capability of re-signing him). It would be well worth giving up a couple of our top forward prospects for someone like that. We'd likely have to give up Flip or Mule, which may look bad right now, but probably benefits us in the long run.

I don't think anyone is suggesting we trade all our top prospects and all our picks for a rental. Giving up one or two for a player that can help us both now and in the future is not trading away the future.

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You are right. I thought he was only out 1 game and it was 4. Thanks for the correction.

Aside from that, I think you are going overboard on your analysis. Think back to 1996 and 1997 up until the playoffs when Colorado "owned" the Wings. The Shanahan trade really was huge, but we gave up Coffey and Primeau, who were good players. I don't see anything the Wings are willing to give up for a player like that this year.

This year, things will be different than last year. San Jose is a different team. Chicago is a different team. St. Louis is a very different team. Size means very little when you factor in grit and hard work. I see these things from the Wings more this year than last year. If you can't see it by their defensive play alone, then I can't help you. :)

What people want is for us to give up a s*** player for a exceptional one, and no team is going to make a trade for that. I would hope that Holland would NOT trade our future away. We have cap space, but what we don't have right now are prospects in the system that are exceptional players. I don't see the next Dats and Z in the system. I don't see the next Lids in the system either. I see good players, but no one who is going to light it up. When Z and Dats are gone, what are the Wings going to do if they traded away their future today?

Just something to think about. We have far too many people who believe that trading our future away right now is the way to go. We need to be more careful especially in the salary cap era.

What I see (even though I think higher of our prospects than you) is that even if we don't have the next Datsyuk, we have enough very good prospects to package with a player and a pick for the next elite player we need. I really think the Wings have the prospects to get almost any of the up coming FA if the other teams are willing to deal.

I think we would still have a good farm system after that trade as well. I've never seen our cupboard as full as it is now.

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I agree achildr1. The cupboard is full now and has good prospects. Is it worth taking some of those prospects and giving them away for something else we can use in the kitchen to make a huge meal today? Even though the meal may not come out right when its done? Cup championship or bust is not the direction to go. We have made the playoffs the last 20 years because of great decisions by this management team, and that includes the 4 Stanley Cups we have won. I stand behind them 100%.

I would like to see us get Parise, but there is part of me that wonders if that is going to be possible. Holland has made the impossible look possible though.

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I really miss the pre-salary cap era.

10 years ago, we'd be the frontrunners for an Iginla or Perry. Then in the offseason, we could have gotten Weber easily.

Yup :(

EDIT - As for the salary cap - if/when there's an NHL season the "hard" cap could possibly be gone.

Edited by F.Michael

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Sharp has been out for FOUR games and Chicago has won three of them and almost came back to beat Detroit. Chicago has Hossa, Toews and Kane backing up Sharp. Who does Detroit have backing up Datsyuk?? NO ONE on the Red Wings is nearly as good as Datsyuk on BOTH offense AND defense.

Detroit needs another top forward... period. Detroit is going to have Hudler because no one would even want him.... he can not compete with the big teams like San Jose, St. Louis and Vancouver. Yeh he gets a few points against the smaller non-playoff teams... big deal.

San Jose already OWNS the Wings because of their size.... they play Red Wing hockey with SIZE! Detroit simply will not be able to compete in the playoffs if they have back-to-back series with St. Louis, San Jose or Vancouver.

Conklin is useless.... ANYONE would be better than him. IF Howie gets injured Wings are done. If Datsyuk gets injured at any point in March, April, etc... Wings are done. If Stuart stays with the Wings Detroit will get nothing for him.

There is really no one other than Filppula, who Detroit would be willing to trade, who can get you a player that is actually worth something. And like I wrote earlier to get a top forward two top prospects would have to be included with Filppula. Filppula's stock is high right now... come May it will be worthless.

There are now THREE good teams playing the "Red Wing" system..... San Jose, Chicago and St. Louis and they all have the size advantage. Filppula gets thrown to the ice almost as much as Hudler. The second line of Filppula, Z and Hudler will be a very weak one for the playoffs.

Not sure if you missed it, but last season Datsyuk was injured nearly half the year, and the Wings still managed to end up only ONE goal shy of the league lead in goals on the season. Seems like you are basing your entire argument on the awful Islanders game when we were missing Datsyuk, but that was a single game where every single player was playing awful. Datsyuk playing that night would not have made the difference.

As for Sharp, the Hawks have been struggling lately with or without Sharp and are about to head into their toughest stretch of the season. They have like 3 other guys on offense to support him, whereas the Wings already have five players with 10 or more goals and another four players with 9 goals. That's pretty decent support.

A complimentary forward would always be welcome, but its not nearly as gloomy as you seem to make it out to be. The Wings are currently third overall in goals/game (first in the conference, ahead of Chicago).

Seems like you are paying too much attention to the standings and not enough time watching the games.

EDIT: I don't want Pavel to get injured, just saying.

Edited by hooon

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Just hope Holland doesn't trade Smith, got loads of forward prospects coming up and not many on D who are anywhere close to being in the NHL.

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Over the last 3 or 4 years, Franzen has been one of if not the top playoff performers in the entire league. Why on earth would we even consider trading him?

Who cares if it takes nights off in the regular season?

Am I missing something?

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I agree achildr1. The cupboard is full now and has good prospects. Is it worth taking some of those prospects and giving them away for something else we can use in the kitchen to make a huge meal today? Even though the meal may not come out right when its done? Cup championship or bust is not the direction to go. We have made the playoffs the last 20 years because of great decisions by this management team, and that includes the 4 Stanley Cups we have won. I stand behind them 100%.

I would like to see us get Parise, but there is part of me that wonders if that is going to be possible. Holland has made the impossible look possible though.

The dilemma is always like this though. And generally when you trade unknowns for known commodities, especially already proven elite ones, you win. Look back at all the recent big name deals. Pronger, Hossa, Kovalchuk, both Gretzky trades, etc. the team that got those players won the deal. Very few go the other way. I would trade Filpulla, one of our best prospects, our 1st + for a guy like Parise or Weber. Those guys are already elite, known, and young commodities and you'd likely lock them up for the rest of their careers which equates to more than 1 or 2 Cup runs. All we spent was potential, which is always a gamble. But the difference is that were gambling with a big chip stack this time and can afford to "lose". Although if you still got a franchise cornerstone out of it, is it still losing?

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I'd be surprised and disappointed if we don't at least explore the option of adding something, but not terribly upset if we can't work anything out.

Our good trade assets are pretty much Flip, Nyquist, and picks. Maybe another top forward prospect if we're adding a young star forward. Or Stuart, Kindl, or Smith if we're adding a young star defenseman. Enough to make a good offer, but maybe not enough to match what other buyers are willing to spend.

no way in hell the wings trade nyquist or smith. they're the next 2 stars for the wings. kindl is playing pretty good but is expendable. and flip is having his breakout year. if he'd shoot more he'd be a point per game. i'd rather see tatar go than nyquist. the wings are having a log jam of nearly NHL ready players agian with Jarnkrok, Nyquist, Tatar, Pulkkinen and Andersson all getting close and Ferraro getting back on track in GR looking like he'll be a good 3rd/4th line guy. i think one of the things the wings need to do is quit being passive and keeping guys like homer and cleary on the roster when there's guys that could make more of a splash like nyquist playing on a scoring line or injecting a s*** disturber with energy like mitchell callahan to piss off the other teams stars. the wings need to not waste guys like quincey and fleischmann again and again by bringing in more guys at the deadline. if a bonafide star is available for not a huge hit to the wings core, then yes make a move at the deadline, but don't deal guys like smith or nyquist.

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The dilemma is always like this though. And generally when you trade unknowns for known commodities, especially already proven elite ones, you win. Look back at all the recent big name deals. Pronger, Hossa, Kovalchuk, both Gretzky trades, etc. the team that got those players won the deal. Very few go the other way. I would trade Filpulla, one of our best prospects, our 1st + for a guy like Parise or Weber. Those guys are already elite, known, and young commodities and you'd likely lock them up for the rest of their careers which equates to more than 1 or 2 Cup runs. All we spent was potential, which is always a gamble. But the difference is that were gambling with a big chip stack this time and can afford to "lose". Although if you still got a franchise cornerstone out of it, is it still losing?

Only if you can sign them to a deal that is reasonable and keeps them producing for you. Otherwise, its just a rental.

Don't get me wrong, I do believe you are correct, but Holland won't trade away for Parise if he is going to be asking for 7.5 million per season. Shanahan was brought in because winning was more important than money to him. He took a hometown discount. Any player that gets brought in here will play for less than market value. The ones that care about money alone won't be brought in here.

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no way in hell the wings trade nyquist or smith. they're the next 2 stars for the wings. kindl is playing pretty good but is expendable. and flip is having his breakout year. if he'd shoot more he'd be a point per game. i'd rather see tatar go than nyquist. the wings are having a log jam of nearly NHL ready players agian with Jarnkrok, Nyquist, Tatar, Pulkkinen and Andersson all getting close and Ferraro getting back on track in GR looking like he'll be a good 3rd/4th line guy. i think one of the things the wings need to do is quit being passive and keeping guys like homer and cleary on the roster when there's guys that could make more of a splash like nyquist playing on a scoring line or injecting a s*** disturber with energy like mitchell callahan to piss off the other teams stars. the wings need to not waste guys like quincey and fleischmann again and again by bringing in more guys at the deadline. if a bonafide star is available for not a huge hit to the wings core, then yes make a move at the deadline, but don't deal guys like smith or nyquist.

To clarify, when I say "Good trade asset" I mean they are assets that other teams would actually be interested in, and so would bring a good return back. I don't mean they are players we should be trying to get rid of.

It would be great if we could trade Homer or Bert or Emmerton, but no one is going to give anything of value for those guys. Tatar isn't doing as well as Nyquist and hasn't played in the NHL this year, so I don't think he'd have as much value. Nor would prospects that are still a couple years away from the NHL.

Nyquist may be our next star, or he may be nothing. Right now, it would be a huge success if he turns into the next Filppula. I'm not saying we should give him away, only that we could potentially get something that helps us more now and doesn't necessarily hurt us in the future.

Fleischmann was traded in a package for the guy who was leading the league in scoring at the time. That was 8 years ago, and he is only recently started to become a noteworthy player. Lang had more immediate impact. Even if we had kept Fleischmann, there's no guarantee we would still have him. We went through a pretty serious cap crunch. We may not have been able to afford him. Nyquist is a similar asset. He's not adding anything right now, and probably wont add much for at least a few years. We can afford to move him if we're getting something good in return.

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Remember the trade for Stuart at the deadline? I think it was just picks. Great move. If we can get something like that at the deadline they should go for it but the roster is consistently getting better for the playoffs. I can't tell if they have what it takes to make it past the second round yet.

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Temmu For Hemsky you heard it first right here

Over the last 3 or 4 years, Franzen has been one of if not the top playoff performers in the entire league. Why on earth would we even consider trading him?

Who cares if it takes nights off in the regular season?

Am I missing something?

injured 24/7

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What do you guys think about this?

I just saw that Boston is willing to give up a 1st round pick at the deadline. For a while now there has been talk about them being active at the deadline. Same goes for the NYR and Chicago and they currently sit atop the conference standings right now.

So it looks like the best teams in the game right now are not content with where they are at; they are looking to get even better!

GRANTED, we haven't had the type of cash we have now at the deadline in what seems like forever. So based on what we are seeing other teams do, would you guys be disappointed if Kenny doesn't do something somewhat significant at the deadline? This is basically the same team that has lost the last two years and a Chicago with a healthy Sharp is pretty good.

It's also basically the same team that won it 4 years ago. The difference being players who have retired like Maltby, Drapes, McCarty, Drake, Ozzie, Dom, etc. I think we're in a good, if not better, position with Howard in net (although Ozzie and Dom were truly elite players over their careers, but Howard is still young and looking like he could potentially better them), but just need some bottom line people to sure it up like the aforementioned players did. Miller is good, but is not really much more than a PK man, much like Eaves (although he does have slightly more offensive talent). We wont win in the playoffs if our entire bottom 6 forwards are PK men rather than more rounded players. Yeah it's good for a PK situation, but we need someone with a bit more bite during even strength.

For some reason then I thought of Chelios putting his foot on an opposition players stick when he was sitting on the bench. Can't remember who that was though :P As for who I'd actually like, I don't know. Maybe there's someone in Anaheim that could be brought in cheap, as a rental, just to throw the body around on the bottom line and add a bit of zip.

We've also been unlucky at certain times. Just imagine if we went into last years playoffs with a healthy Modano who had played an entire season, centering one of our bottom two lines. THAT would have been fun to watch but alas, never happened unfortunately.

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Paul Woods had an interesting comment last night during the game. When asked about the trade rumors he didn't seem to think the Wings would sign Parise through trade or through free agency in the summer, but he thought Kovalchuk might be an option. What does everyone think about this option? I think I'd rather have Parise, he seems to work harder. But there's no doubt about Kovalchuk's offensive ability.

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Paul Woods had an interesting comment last night during the game. When asked about the trade rumors he didn't seem to think the Wings would sign Parise through trade or through free agency in the summer, but he thought Kovalchuk might be an option. What does everyone think about this option? I think I'd rather have Parise, he seems to work harder. But there's no doubt about Kovalchuk's offensive ability.

Kovalchuk and his contract? No thank you.

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Paul Woods had an interesting comment last night during the game. When asked about the trade rumors he didn't seem to think the Wings would sign Parise through trade or through free agency in the summer, but he thought Kovalchuk might be an option. What does everyone think about this option? I think I'd rather have Parise, he seems to work harder. But there's no doubt about Kovalchuk's offensive ability.

Although his skill is undeniable, that contract (as was stated above) is just way too messy. It has future problems written all over it....

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It's also basically the same team that won it 4 years ago. The difference being players who have retired like Maltby, Drapes, McCarty, Drake, Ozzie, Dom, etc. I think we're in a good, if not better, position with Howard in net (although Ozzie and Dom were truly elite players over their careers, but Howard is still young and looking like he could potentially better them), but just need some bottom line people to sure it up like the aforementioned players did. Miller is good, but is not really much more than a PK man, much like Eaves (although he does have slightly more offensive talent). We wont win in the playoffs if our entire bottom 6 forwards are PK men rather than more rounded players. Yeah it's good for a PK situation, but we need someone with a bit more bite during even strength.

For some reason then I thought of Chelios putting his foot on an opposition players stick when he was sitting on the bench. Can't remember who that was though :P As for who I'd actually like, I don't know. Maybe there's someone in Anaheim that could be brought in cheap, as a rental, just to throw the body around on the bottom line and add a bit of zip.

We've also been unlucky at certain times. Just imagine if we went into last years playoffs with a healthy Modano who had played an entire season, centering one of our bottom two lines. THAT would have been fun to watch but alas, never happened unfortunately.

Not really.

Other than Filppula and maybe Datsyuk, all the other skaters were better players 4 years ago than they are now.

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An abrasive forward?

Is this an Eklund rumor?

Avery is abrasive.

We won the Cup with him in 2002. Coincidence? I think not.

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I was thinking about this earlier watching some old youtube vids of young Pavel when he had Hull on his wing, and thinking what would todays Pavel do with an elite goalscorer, one who could find space and had the shot to use it? Then I got to thinking of Datsyuk's breakout year, when he had a slow, aging Shanahan on his wing, who with Pavel's help had "the quietest 40 goal season in NHL history".

A top 6 goalscorer and a bottom 6 grinder isn't too much to ask is it?

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I don't know...if we trade, we better be damn sure we're getting a good deal. I don't want to see all of Hudler's improvement (for example) go to waste for somebody who's got their own set of problems (I mean, this is someone another team was willing to give up, after all), and who doesn't have any experience playing with our guys, to boot. I'm not convinced the Ducks are actually considering getting rid of their top players, anyway...I still think that was just a wake-up call. Parise would be nice, but if he's just going to sign somewhere else next season, I don't want to give up a bunch of guys just so he can play here for a half a season. As for the big, abrasive 4th-liner, we could definitely use one of those, but I don't want to lose a guy like Nyquist just for some throwaway player.

Since we actually have some cap space for a change, I'd rather keep our prospects and spend the money this summer. I know it's possibly Lidstrom's last season, and I'd love to make one last Cup run with him, but not so much that I'd want to sacrifice the future of the team. I'd like some fresh blood, sure, but l want to wait until we get a nice, juicy FA pool to choose from.

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