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jollymania

Dreger's mailbag

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i am really surprised at how many people are advocating multiple changes... i know you all want us to get tougher and grittier, but personally, i would rather only make 1 or possibly 2 roster changes down the stretch. its kind of silly to throw off the chemistry of a team that has been top 5 in goals scored and goals against most of the season...

Problem is, and I do agree with you, but they are playing absolutely abysmal on the road. If it wasn't for a 17 game win streak at home where would they be in the standings? They most certainly wouldn't be #1 overall. I am glad that they are nearly unbeatable at home, but sooner or later they are going to have to win on the road, especially if they want a Cup. I am not saying multiple changes would do the trick, but a couple of changes to wake up our team on the road. I have no idea what Holland will do, we can all wish in one hand and you know what in the other for the players we like, but Holland is going to do what is best, or what he feels is the best for this team. He says he wants a top 6 guy, if a deal presents itself then he'll pop at it, if the other teams want to rape him (which most teams do) then he will go into the playoffs status quo and try to make his changes in July. Morrow and Moen would most definitely change the makeup of this team to a bit more snarly. I think Morrow is a top 6 forward and would fit nicely in our top 6 and Moen would make our bottom six even that much more tougher to play against. He could slide in with Helm and Cleary moving Miller back to the 4th line, where he would make Abdelkader better.

I dunno, sure we are in a great spot right now, but we are gonna need to be able to get past St. Louis/San Jose and Chicago on the road eventually, possibly in the playoffs and right now, as has been most of the season, they just can't do it. But if the deals are just too rich for Holland, I am ready for them to give it their best shot with who they have...

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Problem is, and I do agree with you, but they are playing absolutely abysmal on the road. If it wasn't for a 17 game win streak at home where would they be in the standings? They most certainly wouldn't be #1 overall. I am glad that they are nearly unbeatable at home, but sooner or later they are going to have to win on the road, especially if they want a Cup. I am not saying multiple changes would do the trick, but a couple of changes to wake up our team on the road. I have no idea what Holland will do, we can all wish in one hand and you know what in the other for the players we like, but Holland is going to do what is best, or what he feels is the best for this team. He says he wants a top 6 guy, if a deal presents itself then he'll pop at it, if the other teams want to rape him (which most teams do) then he will go into the playoffs status quo and try to make his changes in July. Morrow and Moen would most definitely change the makeup of this team to a bit more snarly. I think Morrow is a top 6 forward and would fit nicely in our top 6 and Moen would make our bottom six even that much more tougher to play against. He could slide in with Helm and Cleary moving Miller back to the 4th line, where he would make Abdelkader better.

I dunno, sure we are in a great spot right now, but we are gonna need to be able to get past St. Louis/San Jose and Chicago on the road eventually, possibly in the playoffs and right now, as has been most of the season, they just can't do it. But if the deals are just too rich for Holland, I am ready for them to give it their best shot with who they have...

One of the best posts I've read in a while.

The only thing I could add is that this team would do equally well with a legit goal scoring winger. But Morrow with his intangibles and physical play would be equally useful.

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I'd much rather get a point producer like Vermette, A.Kostitsyn, Grabovski, Hemsky or Selanne, or a defenseman like Gleason than just bottom line grinder like Morrow or Moen. You should get those type players via free agency because having to give up assets for them is just bad hockey management they are a dime a dozen in the league. Morrow would have been great a few years ago before his injuries, but he's a shell of himself especially for his projected cost, if Holland can get a good deal I'd love it, I just don't see Dallas trading their captain for scraps. And Moen is just a older, slower version of Abdelkader.

Selanne isn't going anywhere, Hemsky is lazy and injury-prone, Grabovski isn't going anywhere (barring a ridiculous offer), Vermette is not really a producer, and Kostitsyn is a one-dimensional second-liner. Gleason, sure, provided that Ericsson is the one who leaves.

I agree that Morrow is not worth buying, given the remaining time on his contract.

i am really surprised at how many people are advocating multiple changes... i know you all want us to get tougher and grittier, but personally, i would rather only make 1 or possibly 2 roster changes down the stretch. its kind of silly to throw off the chemistry of a team that has been top 5 in goals scored and goals against most of the season...

A lot of people seem to ignore the intangibles of roster management and instead treat trades as they would be in NHL 12.

Uncle Danny and Carman like this

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I see two trades happening, maximum. Probably one. Holland is too smart to mess with everything. The idea at the trade deadline if you are a contender is to TWEAK your team, not rebuild it. Clearly a lot of things are going right for the Wings this year. But some more quality depth on the 4th line (either grittier or most importantly a centerman) would help down the stretch. And of course a new scoring winger wouldn't be frowned upon. Anything more than that is overkill. Look at 2008, the last time Holland did a significant move. He traded for Stuart, who was flying under the radar. An Ian White type signing. It wasn't hugely flashy but he was clearly the missing piece. I think we'll see something like that, even though it's fun to speculate about bringing in a star.

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If all we did at the deadline was Morrow and Moen, I would be delighted. Moen is a pending UFA so could be had for a middling pick, and is exactly what we need on the bottom 6. Big, can play, can drop the gloves. Was great for the Ducks during their cup run.

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Selanne isn't going anywhere, Hemsky is lazy and injury-prone, Grabovski isn't going anywhere (barring a ridiculous offer), Vermette is not really a producer, and Kostitsyn is a one-dimensional second-liner. Gleason, sure, provided that Ericsson is the one who leaves.

I agree that Morrow is not worth buying, given the remaining time on his contract.

A lot of people seem to ignore the intangibles of roster management and instead treat trades as they would be in NHL 12.

So then we go into the playoffs with a bottom pairing of Commodore/Kindl? No thanks.

Doesn't Morrow only have another year on his contract? The Wings would get him prorated for this season, then next season at $4.1 mill, which could be overpayment if he's injured or he could stay healthy and flourish in Detroit. His contract is similar to Mule's, and his regular season production could be similar as well. And unlike Franzen, he's physical and a pain in the ass to play against.

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So then we go into the playoffs with a bottom pairing of Commodore/Kindl? No thanks.

Doesn't Morrow only have another year on his contract? The Wings would get him prorated for this season, then next season at $4.1 mill, which could be overpayment if he's injured or he could stay healthy and flourish in Detroit. His contract is similar to Mule's, and his regular season production could be similar as well. And unlike Franzen, he's physical and a pain in the ass to play against.

Commodore/Smith

Yes please.

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So then we go into the playoffs with a bottom pairing of Commodore/Kindl? No thanks.

Doesn't Morrow only have another year on his contract? The Wings would get him prorated for this season, then next season at $4.1 mill, which could be overpayment if he's injured or he could stay healthy and flourish in Detroit. His contract is similar to Mule's, and his regular season production could be similar as well. And unlike Franzen, he's physical and a pain in the ass to play against.

If he's trading for Gleason, I'd assume Gleason would be on the third pair, or 2nd with Stuart moving down.

And yeah, I think Morrow would fit our needs pretty well, and the contract is fine. Maybe a bit less offense than Mule, but he did score 33 last year.

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Commodore/Smith

Yes please.

Smith looked promising in his time up with the Wings. But a rookie in the playoffs is always a little scary.

If he's trading for Gleason, I'd assume Gleason would be on the third pair, or 2nd with Stuart moving down.

And yeah, I think Morrow would fit our needs pretty well, and the contract is fine. Maybe a bit less offense than Mule, but he did score 33 last year.

Oh. right. I forgot that when we dealt for Gleason he would actually be playing for the Wings. :lol:

either way, Ericsson has a NMC, so as much joy as it would bring people to see him go, he'd have to agree to it.

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If we got Morrow and Moen at the deadline... I don't know my reaction. We'd be the favorites to win the cup, that's for sure.

Bertuzzi-Datsyuk-Franzen

Filppula-Zetterberg-Morrow

Moen-Helm-Cleary

Miller-Abdelkader-Eaves/Holmstrom

Be nice to pick up a 4th line center so Abby could move to the wing, but still.

No way we get Moen and Morrow both...

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So then we go into the playoffs with a bottom pairing of Commodore/Kindl? No thanks.

Doesn't Morrow only have another year on his contract? The Wings would get him prorated for this season, then next season at $4.1 mill, which could be overpayment if he's injured or he could stay healthy and flourish in Detroit. His contract is similar to Mule's, and his regular season production could be similar as well. And unlike Franzen, he's physical and a pain in the ass to play against.

Franzen 19 goals, 41 points, +25, GWG 9 (leads the league in GWG)

Morrow 8 goals, 22 points, +4, 1 GWG

There is no comparison. $4.1m per year for 22 points in 41 games. No thanks.

If he's trading for Gleason, I'd assume Gleason would be on the third pair, or 2nd with Stuart moving down.

And yeah, I think Morrow would fit our needs pretty well, and the contract is fine. Maybe a bit less offense than Mule, but he did score 33 last year.

A LITTLE less. 41 points compared to 22 points. Almost 50% less...

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No way we get Moen and Morrow both...

No way we get Hossa, ever......oh wait.....

Never say never, but the odds are low, I agree.

Franzen 19 goals, 41 points, +25, GWG 9 (leads the league in GWG) only ONE actual goal that untied a game and stood as a game winner. Other 8 GWG's were goals that were scored after the Wings were already leading and the visitor failed to complete the comeback.

Morrow 8 goals, 22 points, +4, 1 GWG

There is no comparison. $4.1m per year for 22 points in 41 games. No thanks.

A LITTLE less. 41 points compared to 22 points. Almost 50% less...

besides, I wouldn't trade Franzen for Morrow, who ever suggested that is nuts. Franzen for Ryan or Perry? Yes, but Morrow should only cost some prospects and MAYBE a roster player, possibly named Hudler or Emmerton.

Edited by LeftWinger

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Morrow would be a good addition but I really hope the wings get Moen. He could help the terrible PK, give some toughness and has proven capable of shutting down top players when given the chance.

Emmerton plus a 5th for Moen would be great. I think Morrow will cost more then he is worth, but hes definitely a player who has that "Dallas Drake" kinda feel to him for sure

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Smith looked promising in his time up with the Wings. But a rookie in the playoffs is always a little scary.

Oh. right. I forgot that when we dealt for Gleason he would actually be playing for the Wings. :lol:

either way, Ericsson has a NMC, so as much joy as it would bring people to see him go, he'd have to agree to it.

Helm and Abby made their major appearances in the playoffs before they got their roster spot. Same thing could happen to Smith if he outshines Ericsson. Regardless, Ericsson IS better in the playoffs, but he's still scary to see with the puck.

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Franzen 19 goals, 41 points, +25, GWG 9 (leads the league in GWG)

Morrow 8 goals, 22 points, +4, 1 GWG

There is no comparison. $4.1m per year for 22 points in 41 games. No thanks.

A LITTLE less. 41 points compared to 22 points. Almost 50% less...

For starters, I was looking at more than 50 games this season Mule has played and the 41 Morrow has played. The last two seasons Morrow has put up 56 and 46 points on a Dallas team that wasn't good enough to make the playoffs.

I wasn't equating Franzen with Morrow and certainly wasn't implying Morrow is better. My point was to use Mule's contract size as a reference point in saying that Morrow's contract may not be that bad if he were to stay healthy on the Wings.

And no matter how many times people use it with Mule GWG is still the most useless stat there is. Guys who score lots of goals are going to have lots of GWG. People like to infer that it somehow means he's clutch, but it means virtually nothing, other than he scores goals.

And using +/- for players on two different teams shows absolutely nothing useful as well.

besides, I wouldn't trade Franzen for Morrow, who ever suggested that is nuts. Franzen for Ryan or Perry? Yes, but Morrow should only cost some prospects and MAYBE a roster player, possibly named Hudler or Emmerton.

No one was suggesting that. Or at least I certainly wasn't.

Helm and Abby made their major appearances in the playoffs before they got their roster spot. Same thing could happen to Smith if he outshines Ericsson. Regardless, Ericsson IS better in the playoffs, but he's still scary to see with the puck.

Having a rookie D man in the playoffs worries me more than forwards, though you can add Ericsson to that list of playoff appearances.

I'm not saying Smith would be a disaster or anything. I just don't know that the Wings would put themselves in that position.

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Having a rookie D man in the playoffs worries me more than forwards, though you can add Ericsson to that list of playoff appearances.

I'm not saying Smith would be a disaster or anything. I just don't know that the Wings would put themselves in that position.

This is pretty much bang on. Smith wouldn't be a disaster by any stretch of the mind, and when all is said and done, Smith will be the superior player... but the post-season is a different beast. You want the guy who's been there before, even if it's Big Rig. One little mistake can make a huge difference. I think if any player off the active roster is moved, it'll be a forward.

Getting Morrow could really bolster our top 6, depending on the return and his health. He's had a difficult time staying healthy this season. I wouldn't mind the team moving a forward prospect, as they're very deep at the position. Holland's spent a number of years compiling his assets, and if we're really going to add some pieces to the team I think this trade deadline/off-season is going to be when it happens. I remain skeptical, but I feel like it's a good time to add some depth to the team.

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Helm and Abby made their major appearances in the playoffs before they got their roster spot. Same thing could happen to Smith if he outshines Ericsson. Regardless, Ericsson IS better in the playoffs, but he's still scary to see with the puck.

Didn't the same happen to Quincey when Schiender was hurt in 07? Which was why most were pissed he was just disguarded for the likes of Meech/Lebda

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A lot of people seem to ignore the intangibles of roster management and instead treat trades as they would be in NHL 12.

OK, since you know everything about everything, what exactly should Ken Holland do at the deadline? Or do you want us to stand pat at the deadline and get beaten (again) by a team whose players are just as fast, just as skilled, and just as hardworking, but 2-3 inches taller and 10-20lbs heavier?

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This is pretty much bang on. Smith wouldn't be a disaster by any stretch of the mind, and when all is said and done, Smith will be the superior player... but the post-season is a different beast. You want the guy who's been there before, even if it's Big Rig. One little mistake can make a huge difference. I think if any player off the active roster is moved, it'll be a forward.

Getting Morrow could really bolster our top 6, depending on the return and his health. He's had a difficult time staying healthy this season. I wouldn't mind the team moving a forward prospect, as they're very deep at the position. Holland's spent a number of years compiling his assets, and if we're really going to add some pieces to the team I think this trade deadline/off-season is going to be when it happens. I remain skeptical, but I feel like it's a good time to add some depth to the team.

The Wings aren't shy about letting their prospects play in the playoffs. Maybe Smith wouldn't play his first game in a crucial Game 7, but he'll get his chance in Game 1 of the first round, and if he plays well he will continue to get to play. The kid looks like he could be a perfect playoff-player.

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The Wings aren't shy about letting their prospects play in the playoffs. Maybe Smith wouldn't play his first game in a crucial Game 7, but he'll get his chance in Game 1 of the first round, and if he plays well he will continue to get to play. The kid looks like he could be a perfect playoff-player.

And if he doesn't, who does? I don't think the Wings go with a Kindl-Commodore pairing. I just don't think they'd risk it. As much as E gets ripped on, he makes some smart, quiet plays. There's nothing flashy about the guy, but at times he just makes the smart play.

One of the knocks on Smith, at least during his AHL play, has been his defensive lapses. It'd be nice to think he's past them, but I think in a high pressure situation, they might be exposed. I'm very pro-Smith; I'm just not sure throwing him into the deep end of the pool without any water wings is going to pan out.

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No way we get Hossa, ever......oh wait.....

Never say never, but the odds are low, I agree.

besides, I wouldn't trade Franzen for Morrow, who ever suggested that is nuts. Franzen for Ryan or Perry? Yes, but Morrow should only cost some prospects and MAYBE a roster player, possibly named Hudler or Emmerton.

Don't let the facts get in the way of your opinions. You are seriously arguing about the definition of a game winning goal to make a point? Really? Mule is a clutch playoff performer, Period. He's not going anywhere.

And if he doesn't, who does? I don't think the Wings go with a Kindl-Commodore pairing. I just don't think they'd risk it. As much as E gets ripped on, he makes some smart, quiet plays. There's nothing flashy about the guy, but at times he just makes the smart play.

One of the knocks on Smith, at least during his AHL play, has been his defensive lapses. It'd be nice to think he's past them, but I think in a high pressure situation, they might be exposed. I'm very pro-Smith; I'm just not sure throwing him into the deep end of the pool without any water wings is going to pan out.

Defenseman is hard position to learn. There aren't many guys that are good at in right away. Big E is improving but he's not there yet. I expect that Smith will take some time also,

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A gritty player who's beaten the snot out of Lucic, I approve.

When exactly did that happen? Cause I'm looking at Morrow's fight card right now and Lucic is nowhere to be found.

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