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Icesurfer

The Blues are in the driver's seat

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My point is the Wings were on perfect pace to surpass the Blues and ended up having multiple injuries at the same time to key players in the lineup (three of those being more important than any of those you listed) which allowed for the Blues to sneak past with relative ease.

You're saying that the Wings were going to surpass the Blues had they not had injury issues? Might I remind you that the Blues have gone 9-1-1 over their last 11. Were the Wings going to go 11-0-0 over that stretch? Where were the extra points going to come from?

And FYI...

Perron & McDonald were out at the same time.

Steen & D'Agostini are out at the same time (still out). Other players are still out as well.

We've had significant members of this team out at the same time too. No, they aren't at Datsyuk's level, but Steen was our best player when he went down and was a huge part of this team on the PP, PK and 5 on 5.

To act like the injuries to a team that relies on top talent don't make any difference (especially when the entire success of the Blues can be traced to the man behind the players and not the ability of one or two players themselves) is asinine.

I didn't say injuries to players don't make a difference. I don't feel that way at all.

What I am saying is, don't act like the Blues injuries to Steen, Perron, McDonald, Langenbrunner, etc. are insignificant compared to the Wings injuries.

Edited by haroldsnepsts
Edited to remove trolling portion of post

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McDonald

Steen

Perron

Langenbrunner

D'Agostini

Arnott

All missed significant time this season due to injury (there are a couple others who missed time as well, but I don't feel like looking it up). Steen, whom at the time he got hurt, was the Blues best player. He's been out for a long time and he's still out, and it's looking more and more like he is done for the season. D'Agostini is still out as well, and probably won't be back either.

We've been hit with injury issues too.

I'll have my lawyer call your lawyer.

None of them amount to missing Dats and Lids, especially at the same time. Nevermind missing plenty of other starters

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The President's trophy doesn't mean a damn thing. Re: San Jose, Vancouver, other years we won it and not the cup. Sure, Home ice advantage and all that, but it doesn't mean s*** if the team isn't hot at the right time of the year to get the plays, get the lucky bounces, do the right thing at the right time to win.

Personally, Let St. Louis run up the points. Let em win the president's trophy. If it doesn't translate into a cup win, then that egg on their face will get even stickier and messier.

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You're saying that the Wings were going to surpass the Blues had they not had injury issues? Might I remind you that the Blues have gone 9-1-1 over their last 11. Were the Wings going to go 11-0-0 over that stretch? Where were the extra points going to come from?

Um. . . They didn't have to surpass them they were already ahead of the Blues before the rash of injuries.

And FYI...

Perron & McDonald were out at the same time.

Steen & D'Agostini are out at the same time (still out). Other players are still out as well.

We've had significant members of this team out at the same time too. No, they aren't at Datsyuk's level, but Steen was our best player when he went down and was a huge part of this team on the PP, PK and 5 on 5.

It is not just two that were/are out at the same time. Those two were just mentioned because either one is better than any of the guys you mentioned. There are 7 missing from the lineup all at the same time. Half of the entire defense is out.

What I am saying is, don't act like the Blues injuries to Steen, Perron, McDonald, Langenbrunner, etc. are insignificant compared to the Wings injuries.

They are not insignificant but neither are they comparable. Again, 7 Wings out at one time, not one or two guys at a time. Also, done of the guys you mentioned are near as good as Dats or Lids.

The President's trophy doesn't mean a damn thing. Re: San Jose, Vancouver, other years we won it and not the cup. Sure, Home ice advantage and all that, but it doesn't mean s*** if the team isn't hot at the right time of the year to get the plays, get the lucky bounces, do the right thing at the right time to win.

Personally, Let St. Louis run up the points. Let em win the president's trophy. If it doesn't translate into a cup win, then that egg on their face will get even stickier and messier.

This year I don't know if 4th vs. the Preds wouldn't be better than 1st vs. the Sharks for a first round matchup (and overall road to the SCF) if the standings pan out that way.

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That's an opinion...and you are welcome to it.

But one could easily argue that from top to bottom, this is the best Blues team ever assembled.

From coaching, to goaltending, to defense, to offensive depth. The only thing they don't have is an explosive offense with a superstar or two up front...yet they have been scoring at a higher clip lately, so that's promising.

But again, good/great Blues teams of the past have nothing to do with this team except for playing in the same city and being called the Blues. I'm not sure why some like to bring that up. Kind of stinks of desperation during a discussion.

My post really wasn't about an "opinion", I was merely trying to make a point, one you obviously missed. The over-all theme of the point I was trying to make has to do with success, which the Wings have an abundance of, and your teams' lack there of (even when your expectations were high, probably even higher than now).

Now let me help you understand it a little better through your homer vision, which is probably the only way you'll comprehend so please bare with me. Just for arguments sake, let's talk about baseball for a moment. Now I know the Tigers are not even in the same league, let alone division as the Cards', but could you imagine a Tigers' fan coming over to a Cardinal's forum BRAGGING about how the Tigers MIGHT win a division title? Even with a much improved Tigers team, considering all the success the Cards' have had it would be laughable, and for good reason!

Yankee fans' have a reason to be cocky

Cardinal fans' have a reason to be cocky

Patriot fans' have a reason to be cocky

Giants fans' have a reason to be cocky

Laker fans' have a reason to be cocky

Red Wings fans' have a reason to be cocky

The Blues being 7 pts. ahead of the Wings, or even possibly being a top seed ARE NO REASON TO BE COCKY.

Now considering for how long the Red Wings have been taking your asses to school, I can't believe Blues' fans haven't learned this lesson yet!

I'm just enjoying the return to respectability, being cautiously optimistic, and hoping for the best.

If you say so ;p

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You're saying that the Wings were going to surpass the Blues had they not had injury issues? Might I remind you that the Blues have gone 9-1-1 over their last 11. Were the Wings going to go 11-0-0 over that stretch? Where were the extra points going to come from?

The Wings were ahead in the divison and would either still be ahead or be in a much closer position.

And FYI...

Perron & McDonald were out at the same time.

Steen & D'Agostini are out at the same time (still out). Other players are still out as well.

We've had significant members of this team out at the same time too. No, they aren't at Datsyuk's level, but Steen was our best player when he went down and was a huge part of this team on the PP, PK and 5 on 5.

Thank you for agreeing that my point is correct.

I didn't say injuries to players don't make a difference. I don't feel that way at all.

What I am saying is, don't act like the Blues injuries to Steen, Perron, McDonald, Langenbrunner, etc. are insignificant compared to the Wings injuries.

And the Blues' strength comes from behind the benches. Hitchcock runs a system that can be successful even by interchanging its parts. Similar to the way Trotz has run things with Nashville, except with more talent on the front end.

That is one issue with the Wings. They rely on high end talent which gives them an advantage over most "system-driven" teams, but they have problems when those high end pieces are out of the lineup for any period of time.

Edited by haroldsnepsts
to stay on topic.

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Wait...

How in the hell am I being cocky? How am I bragging?

You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

You guys need to realize that not every fan of another team that posts here is here to cause trouble. I've been a member here for a long time. Longer than you. I've posted here when the Blues were good and when they sucked. I'm not just showing up because the Blues are in 1st.

If my intention was to troll and cause problems, I would have been banned 10 years ago.

C'mon man, you're the admin of Letsgoblues. How would you want Wings fans to behave on your site? In the posts that are actually on topic, you'll see that there's people here who actually like the Blues team and/or how they've been playing this season.

I'm cleaning up this thread now. For the last time, please keep the discussion relevant to the topic. If anyone wants to discuss anything else brought up in this thread, take it to PM's. Thank you.

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The Wings were ahead in the divison and would either still be ahead or be in a much closer position.

If you say so.

Thank you for agreeing that my point is correct.

You missed my point.

And the Blues' strength comes from behind the benches. Hitchcock runs a system that can be successful even by interchanging its parts. Similar to the way Trotz has run things with Nashville, except with more talent on the front end.

Yes and no. It can be successful by interchanging some parts, but not any parts. This team is better with Steen, McDonald & Perron in the lineup...they can't be replaced by anyone in the system.

The Blues benefit from a balanced attack and depth at the forward lines. No superstars, but players who contribute on every line, so if a key member goes down, it's easier to absorb most of the lost production on another line or from a call up.

That is one issue with the Wings. They rely on high end talent which gives them an advantage over most "system-driven" teams, but they have problems when those high end pieces are out of the lineup for any period of time.

Which is a strange thing to see. I can't remember the last time Detroit had this many injuries to it's core group of players.

It's happened to the Blues quite often the past few years...and it probably cost them a playoff berth last year.

Edited by haroldsnepsts
to stay on topic yet again.

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Well to be fair, and I know this won't make me any friends around here, there's just as much obnoxious and demonstrably false Blues bashing around here as well. Everybody knows that this is a Wings forum, and that talking up anybody else will be met with a certain degree of hostility, but I can't count the number of times I've read "St. Losers" or the like. And then once that ball inevitably starts rolling you get "Oh yeah, well the Blues are better this year!" to which we get "Nu-uh, how many cups huh?...huh?...huh?...that's what I thought...4 in 15 baby...4 in 15!" Which is all entirely beside the point which, to the best of my knowledge, is that the Blues are a better team this year (so far) but nevertheless, this is still a Wings forum.

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Well to be fair, and I know this won't make me any friends around here, there's just as much obnoxious and demonstrably false Blues bashing around here as well. Everybody knows that this is a Wings forum, and that talking up anybody else will be met with a certain degree of hostility, but I can't count the number of times I've read "St. Losers" or the like. And then once that ball inevitably starts rolling you get "Oh yeah, well the Blues are better this year!" to which we get "Nu-uh, how many cups huh?...huh?...huh?...that's what I thought...4 in 15 baby...4 in 15!" Which is all entirely beside the point which, to the best of my knowledge, is that the Blues are a better team this year (so far) but nevertheless, this is still a Wings forum.

It's really no different than nearly every other fan base using the term 'Dead Things' no matter how irrelevant it is. It's a jab, that's all. I mean c'mon, it's the St. Lose Blosers after all!

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It's really no different than nearly every other fan base using the term 'Dead Things' no matter how irrelevant it is. It's a jab, that's all. I mean c'mon, it's the St. Lose Blosers after all!

Haha, I get what it is, and I'm not condemning you or anything. I'm just saying that if you go back to the beginning of any argument you'll usually find two individuals or groups inevitably instigating one another. Ten minutes, days, years, or pages later that basic dynamic is obscured and you're left with irrelevant ping ponging back and forth. Again, the basic facts are this. The Blues are a better team (right now), but this is a Wings forum so acknowledging that the Blues are a good team is one thing, fan boying them is totally different (and out of place here).

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*sigh*. I see harold's warning of a whole hour and a half ago has worn off...

This is this thread's final warning. Keep the discussion ON TOPIC. For the record, posts about the Blues, their recent games, or their position in the standings IS the topic of discussion, whereas criticizing each other's posting styles and calling each other names is NOT the topic of discussion.

Any further off topic posts will be deleted, and suspensions could very well be handed out.

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The worst part out of all this, relative to me of course, is I have Elliott on my fantasy team. So I actually have somewhat of a vested interest in the Blues doing well. I just would rather it didn't come at the expense of the Wings losing the division.

Edited by rrasco

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If you say so.

Don't you mean "if the standings say so"?

You missed my point.

No I didn't. I regarded it as irrelevant because you admitted that the injuries sustained by the Blues were not to the same degree as Detroit's. End of discussion on that front.

Yes and no. It can be successful by interchanging some parts, but not any parts. This team is better with Steen, McDonald & Perron in the lineup...they can't be replaced by anyone in the system.

The Blues benefit from a balanced attack and depth at the forward lines. No superstars, but players who contribute on every line, so if a key member goes down, it's easier to absorb most of the lost production on another line or from a call up.

That is the point I was trying to make all along.

Which is a strange thing to see. I can't remember the last time Detroit had this many injuries to it's core group of players.

It's happened to the Blues quite often the past few years...and it probably cost them a playoff berth last year.

Happened in 2010 as well. Detroit had to play a dump and chase style because they had so many injuries. If not for a push at the end of the season, they were potentially looking at a playoff season at home.

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You're saying that the Wings were going to surpass the Blues had they not had injury issues? Might I remind you that the Blues have gone 9-1-1 over their last 11. Were the Wings going to go 11-0-0 over that stretch? Where were the extra points going to come from?

And FYI...

Perron & McDonald were out at the same time.

Steen & D'Agostini are out at the same time (still out). Other players are still out as well.

We've had significant members of this team out at the same time too. No, they aren't at Datsyuk's level, but Steen was our best player when he went down and was a huge part of this team on the PP, PK and 5 on 5.

I didn't say injuries to players don't make a difference. I don't feel that way at all.

What I am saying is, don't act like the Blues injuries to Steen, Perron, McDonald, Langenbrunner, etc. are insignificant compared to the Wings injuries.

Those 4 guys you just mentioned are not even close to the same type of player Pavel is. All 4 of might be the = of Pavel's right foot

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The Blues will win the West. It is hard to beat excellent defense and goaltending. They will skate all over LA, then Nashville.

When Howie learns to control his rebounds he will be as good as Halak, Elliott or Rinne.

Edited by Icesurfer

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