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bentcobra

Cleary, Bertuzzi, Hudler and Franzen

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Bertuzzi is a +21 and has 30 points while missing a handful of games. He plays night in and night out against other teams top lines. I know he has the luxury of playing aside Datsyuk but tht said I couldn't be happier with Big Bert's play. I am very happy he signe a 2 year deal.

GoWings1905 likes this

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It's not like he is getting paid anywhere near what a 40 goal scorer gets paid. :ph34r:

What gets me is that he's getting paid quite well for playing on the bottom 6.

$5 million plus per season up until the 2015/2016 season...At least it's only a cap hit of $3.9 million <_<

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What gets me is that he's getting paid quite well for playing on the bottom 6.

$5 million plus per season up until the 2015/2016 season...At least it's only a cap hit of $3.9 million <_<

Cap hit is more or less what matters. And 30 goals in the regular season plus excellent playoff performance is worth $4m.

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Cleary's been playing on a bum knee for at least half this season. Just sayin'...

Yeah, I wasn't going to say anything really apart from the fact that he hasn't played a whole season nigh on since Frankie Goes To Hollywood were in the charts. He's a work horse for someone who constantly gets knocked on his can and knows that it's going to happen again as soon as he's back on the ice. Dats doesn't get knocked much but core strength like that doesn't come with a few months training. He's worked at that for years, something unfortunately Cleary doesn't have the time or the fresh body to do. Also Bert plays the game smart like a future coach. I like smart. Franzen pisses me off from time to time but his pros outweigh the cons for me. Hudler is having a good season on the back of a few shaky years (personally and professionally).

I mean jeez, we're not a gung-ho score-at-all-costs team. We're defensively strong and build around that. It's no mystery that we prefer our forwards to play D and our D to play sensible and smart. And that we invest time into a goaltender who was over-ripe when coming into the NHL for the purposes of having him play a lot of hockey and learn from consistent playing time. I couldn't care really that Franzen isn't a 50 goal scorer. As long as he gets us the one that wins (which he's been doing all year).

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What gets me is that he's getting paid quite well for playing on the bottom 6.

$5 million plus per season up until the 2015/2016 season...At least it's only a cap hit of $3.9 million <_<

He must be the best bottom-sixer in the league (if you honestly want to call him that) considering his point and goal totals. :hehe:

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Cap hit is more or less what matters. And 30 goals in the regular season plus excellent playoff performance is worth $4m.

His 5 goals in 1 playoff game was spectacular, but we need him to produce in other playoff games a s well...Since the new year Franzen has been AWOL on many nights...I hope he picks it up soon, and carries that momentum into the playoffs.

Edited by F.Michael

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Not sure if that was sarcasm or not. Franzen's cap hit might be $3.95m but he is getting paid $5.25m, and given the security he was given with such a long-term contract, its fair to argue that he should be playing like closer to $6.0m. He got on the team by playing tough, physical, and responsible while going to the hard areas. He's been doing less and less of that since signing the contract. The production rates are down, but he has also made himself tremendously one-dimensional.

Third year of an ELEVEN year front-loaded contract and he is already playing down to the cap hit. He better stay pretty damn consistent, otherwise I wonder how he'll be playing by the time he is actually making $3.95m (which will be in 5 years, for those wondering). Like GMRwings said, what happens when he plays uninterested and "bored" during the regular season (when everyone else is required to put in the effort) and he gets to playoffs and either doesn't perform, or like last year, gets injured? What are the Wings paying for then?

Not sure how I missed your post, but spot on :thumbup:

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Those of you expecting perfection and/or constant dominance on the part of the Wings should alter your expectations to a more realistic level.

Well you are right about expectations. However a cup winning team has to have luck, health, hunger, goaltending, talent and a good mix of youth and vets to balance all that. Think about the wings cup teams - or any other cup winning teams of recent years. Ask yourself if the 2012 wings are that type of team? I would say close, but no cigar. You can't have passengers and you need everyone playing to their potential. Of these aforementioned players who makes the cut?

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Cap hit is more or less what matters. And 30 goals in the regular season plus excellent playoff performance is worth $4m.

What's frustrating is that this guy has all the tools in the world to be an elite forward yet he doesn't have the heart or psyche to be that forward. It's almost like he took less money to remain a wing, float around and underachieve. Maybe I have an unrealistic assessment of his abilities (ala Dustin Penner's amazing playoff run?), but I think not.

Detroit # 1 Fan likes this

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This shows how much Datsyuk makes Bert look good. When Bert is alone he makes stupid plays, tries to do too much and takes stupid penalties. With Datsyuk he has more space and can actually do something.

What burns my ass is here we have one of the top players in the game in his prime and the best Holland can do is surround him with Bert and Franzen. Really? This is like a crime against humanity. Imagine Dats with Perry, Kessel or Gaborik - or even Kovalchuk - it boggles the mind how Holland has wasted the top 2 or 3 forwards in the game.

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What's frustrating is that this guy has all the tools in the world to be an elite forward yet he doesn't have the heart or psyche to be that forward. It's almost like he took less money to remain a wing, float around and underachieve. Maybe I have an unrealistic assessment of his abilities (ala Dustin Penner's amazing playoff run?), but I think not.

He has the size and shot. His moves are very deliberate and in all honesty not world-class. His defensive skills are fair. He is not a fast skater. Also his ability to protect the puck on the boards is fairly weak.

I don't know where people are getting this idea that he has the tools to be an elite talent. Even when he had the work ethic and linemates on both sides of him and not just one, he scored 34 goals. He is a good goal scorer. He is not an elite goal scorer.

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What's frustrating is that this guy has all the tools in the world to be an elite forward yet he doesn't have the heart or psyche to be that forward. It's almost like he took less money to remain a wing, float around and underachieve. Maybe I have an unrealistic assessment of his abilities (ala Dustin Penner's amazing playoff run?), but I think not.

When did Dustin Penner have an amazing playoff run?

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When did Dustin Penner have an amazing playoff run?

With Edmonton a few years back. Right before Burke, then GM of Anaheim, gave him a RFA offer. That little spat was very entertaining.

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When did Dustin Penner have an amazing playoff run?

Amazing is overstating it, but he looked very good in the playoffs his first two seasons in the league. Winning the Cup with Anaheim his second. I guess that's when he decided he could stop trying, because he's been an underachiever most of the time since.

When the Kings traded for him (and his big contract) I was hoping he could be some surprising reclamation project. Alas, he still works about as hard as Franzen on his off nights, minus the scoring touch.

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Oh Cleary... Oh Danny Boy...

Would it be such a bad idea if he sat and healed up for a little bit or is it really better for him physically to keep playing through this injury?

I agree with you. Unlike many on here, I don't think Cleary is past it, or washed up, or whatever. I think he's just been playing hurt for a really long time and I agree that it would probably be better for him to sit right now rather than try to struggle through it and be ineffective.

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I agree with you. Unlike many on here, I don't think Cleary is past it, or washed up, or whatever. I think he's just been playing hurt for a really long time and I agree that it would probably be better for him to sit right now rather than try to struggle through it and be ineffective.

Well I'm seriously wondering about it. I really don't know. In the crazy world of professional sports, perhaps the best thing for him is to keep playing. He might be thinking that rest won't really heal him up much more significantly so he might as well play. Again, I'm really not sure.

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why are some people hating on franzen?? if he plays a full season hes a 30 goal guy , look around the league and theres not to many 30+ goal scorers these days.... and more importantly he shows up in the playoffs when it counts

hudler after last season , i was willing to get rid of him has come back this year and is on pace for like 25 goals , id say keep him but im sure he will get bigger money offers from some team , probably 4+ a season , its time to let him go and bring up nyquist and others which is why for the life of me i cant understand why the wings resigned bertuzzi , we need to get some of the kids to come up and play with some veterans while they are still here so they can learn

cleary's been hurt so im gonna take it easy on him i think he has alot more to offer than hes been giving us this season , that being said considering his salary he'd be number 1 guy id trade if we needed cap room

on a different note id love it if we made an exception and gave dick axelsson a shot next year , at least a 10 game trial and a real shot not put him on the 4th line, hes got all the offensive tools to be a real point producer and goal scorer, his defensive play isnt great but i think he could learn from z and others

franzen datsyuk nyquist

filppula zetterberg axelsson .. top 6 next year ... tatar and andersson will be up in 2013-2014 , we gotta start blending in the kids

Edited by nyqvististhefuture
Majsheppard likes this

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I honestly wanted Franzen to be the only one of these guys on our team next year. The Bert signing pissed me off, and it just feels like on any given night two of them can be overcome by the team... I would like it if we only had one of them and I think Franzen is the best to keep in the long run.

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why are some people hating on franzen?? if he plays a full season hes a 30 goal guy , look around the league and theres not to many 30+ goal scorers these days.... and more importantly he shows up in the playoffs when it counts

hudler after last season , i was willing to get rid of him has come back this year and is on pace for like 25 goals , id say keep him but im sure he will get bigger money offers from some team , probably 4+ a season , its time to let him go and bring up nyquist and others which is why for the life of me i cant understand why the wings resigned bertuzzi , we need to get some of the kids to come up and play with some veterans while they are still here so they can learn

cleary's been hurt so im gonna take it easy on him i think he has alot more to offer than hes been giving us this season , that being said considering his salary he'd be number 1 guy id trade if we needed cap room

on a different note id love it if we made an exception and gave dick axelsson a shot next year , at least a 10 game trial and a real shot not put him on the 4th line, hes got all the offensive tools to be a real point producer and goal scorer, his defensive play isnt great but i think he could learn from z and others

franzen datsyuk nyquist

filppula zetterberg axelsson .. top 6 next year ... tatar and andersson will be up in 2013-2014 , we gotta start blending in the kids

Johan Franzen has scored 30 goals or more once...once!

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Johan Franzen has scored 30 goals or more once...once!

I thought he was the Wings' franchise goal-scorer? I must have read that contract he signed a few years ago wrong... Its OK, he is still leading the team in goals. And White has the best plus-minus, or at least he did... :)

Johan Franzen: Perennial 25-30 goal-scorer. Who wouldn't want that for 11 years?

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2007-08 Detroit Red Wings NHL 72 27

2008-09 Detroit Red Wings NHL 71 34

2009-10 Detroit Red Wings NHL 27 10

2010-11 Detroit Red Wings NHL 76 28

2011-12 Detroit Red Wings NHL 70 26

as i said if he plays a full schedule hes a 30 goal guy

And yet, his goals-per-game and points-per-game continue to drop season after season, peaking (shock) in the last contract year he'll ever see. He also no longer plays even halfway physical or does much fore/backchecking. He's a one-note song, and its losing tempo. His career arc is looking like "utility player breaks through as a scorer before losing his utility and failing to score".

Nev likes this

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Raw stats don't mean anything. Just looking at Franzen's numbers makes you think "oh yeah ok he seems to do good he deserves a huge contracnt"

But if you actually watch the games you can clearly see he is pretty much a no show. He doesn't do ANYTHING most of the time. Just skates around minding his own business. And all of those goals he scores, are usually done at pointless times. IE Last night when we were already down 2 (or 3 I can't remember) goals to the Kings. Or better yet when we're up 2 or 3 goals.

Playoff preformer or not, I want you to play your heart out EVERY TIME you step out onto the ice. Not just in the post season. Because once you start trending in a direction you typically keep following it. And right now Franzen is NOT trending in a positive direction in any facet of the game.

lookalive07 likes this

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