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Realignment dropped for now


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#1 Cajanek_Spielmacher

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 02:12 PM

I understand that this is probably posturing leading up to the CBA but this needs to go through. http://sports.yahoo....=ap-gmsmeetings All hockey fans need to see this nipped in the bud as soon as possible. We can not afford another bloodletting any time in the future for this sports sake. I have loved this game since 1968 and strongly feel that we can never compare financially with baseball or football. The NBA did not learn from the NHLs last lockout but I can pray that the NHL HAS learned from this past falls NBA lunacy. RANT OVER, Sorry!
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#2 55fan

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 02:19 PM

Screw the CBA talks. They need to be sitting down with the NHLPA and saying, "hey, we're just going to discuss the re-alignment right now. The other stuff can wait, but this has to happen so they can plan the schedule."

#3 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 02:19 PM

as I said in the other thread, if they lose a season or even half a season, Bettman needs to be canned. It would be the third time the league has lost games under his reign in less than 20 years.

And even back in 94 his big battle was about the cap. After basically breaking the union and getting a cap, they damn well better be able to work this out without a lockout. I know it's not all his fault but Bettman sets a very combative tone publicly that everyone gets their hackles up before negotiations even begin.

#4 Jeff6851

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 02:43 PM

So why does the PA not like the idea? From what I've heard fans and owners love it
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#5 blgillett

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 02:45 PM

If there is another lock out the NHL will be done as we know it
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#6 55fan

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 02:46 PM

So why does the PA not like the idea? From what I've heard fans and owners love it

That is probably the reason right there.

Owners love it. It gives them something to shovel into the collective anus of the league during "negotiations" this summer.

Anything that they can come up with that will hold back progress will be used to get what they want, and the guys who actually sign the paychecks and give them their contracts will have to bend over or lose another season.

Welcome to "negotiations".

#7 rrasco

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 02:48 PM

This is not news. Realignment was ruled out as soon at the PA voted against it in what, January? It's already a forgone conclusion realignment will not happen by next season. Assuming there is a season at all. Bettman was also on Costas a week or two ago and made it very clear that CBA negotiations have not and will not begin until the off-season.

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#8 WizardOfOz30

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 02:49 PM

So why does the PA not like the idea? From what I've heard fans and owners love it

I believe it was the travel for the teams. I can't really remember what came out when they turned it down but Nik was one of the voters and he said he agreed with it.

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#9 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 02:57 PM

I believe it was the travel for the teams. I can't really remember what came out when they turned it down but Nik was one of the voters and he said he agreed with it.

To me the NHL are a bunch of idiots for not involving the players union in the realignment before that. It starts things off with a very exclusionary tone.

It's like they sometimes forget who people pay to see. And that the players will be the ones doing the traveling and playing the actual games.

#10 rrasco

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 03:00 PM

To me the NHL are a bunch of idiots for not involving the players union in the realignment before that. It starts things off with a very exclusionary tone.

It's like they sometimes forget who people pay to see. And that the players will be the ones doing the traveling and playing the actual games.


At the same time, I actually agree with what Bettman had to say about that. The PA was never previously involved in any other schedule change or realignment (according to Bettman), why should they be now? Because CBA 'negotiations' are coming up. Case in point, posturing.

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#11 WizardOfOz30

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 03:07 PM

This is not news. Realignment was ruled out as soon at the PA voted against it in what, January? It's already a forgone conclusion realignment will not happen by next season. Assuming there is a season at all. Bettman was also on Costas a week or two ago and made it very clear that CBA negotiations have not and will not begin until the off-season.

I want to know why negotiations can't begin now. I don't know any of the rules for this but they don't need to publicize that they are working on it...only those that should be informed like teams, managers, players(?)if necessary.

My thinking is start talking about it now because you know they aren't going to agree on items, this way they can work on a compromise and be ready for the season to start in September!

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#12 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 03:08 PM

At the same time, I actually agree with what Bettman had to say about that. The PA was never previously involved in any other schedule change or realignment (according to Bettman), why should they be now? Because CBA 'negotiations' are coming up. Case in point, posturing.

I don't agree with his logic. because they hadn't been in the past that means they shouldn't now?

The league never had a salary cap before either.

I think it would've gone a long way to set a better tone had they involved the NHLPA. Instead Bettman basically came off saying "we don't even need to ask them at all." The players are the talent. The league could at least pretend to treat them with respect on occasion.

#13 vladdy16

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 03:13 PM

I get what you're saying, harold; but it would be for show only. I think the players having any real say in this is much like being an employee at *insert huge corporation name here* and having the temerity to tell the COO that they can't open a plant in New Mexico and transfer the employees there. While that would suck, and I agree workers need to be protected, but they're workers, not owners. They have no real right to tell them how to run the business.
Can't wait to read the "Phoenix: I still think it's a hockey market" chapter of Gary Bettman's autobiography. I'm guessing it's going to be chapter 11.

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#14 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 03:16 PM

I get what you're saying, harold; but it would be for show only. I think the players having any real say in this is much like being an employee at *insert huge corporation name here* and having the temerity to tell the COO that they can't open a plant in New Mexico and transfer the employees there. While that would suck, and I agree workers need to be protected, but they're workers, not owners. They have no real right to tell them how to run the business.

Honestly though I don't think that's the best analogy because we're talking about entertainment, and the players are the talent. And elite talent at that.

It's like making major changes to a very popular tv show without getting any input from the stars on it.

The Datsyuk's of the league are why people buy tickets. I think the league forgets that sometime.

#15 rrasco

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 03:16 PM

I want to know why negotiations can't begin now. I don't know any of the rules for this but they don't need to publicize that they are working on it...only those that should be informed like teams, managers, players(?)if necessary.

My thinking is start talking about it now because you know they aren't going to agree on items, this way they can work on a compromise and be ready for the season to start in September!



Oh, I agree 100%. Bettman said something along the lines of having a good season so far, why ruin that now. Makes me think he knows there is going to be a battle royal.

I don't agree with his logic. because they hadn't been in the past that means they shouldn't now?

The league never had a salary cap before either.

I think it would've gone a long way to set a better tone had they involved the NHLPA. Instead Bettman basically came off saying "we don't even need to ask them at all." The players are the talent. The league could at least pretend to treat them with respect on occasion.


True, but I think it had more to do with that they were never involved before, why would they automatically expect to be now? I agree changes do happen (e.g. salary cap) but there was is precedence that the PA was never involved before, so again, why all of a sudden? Not to mention they can't just come up with a mock schedule overnight, which is what the PA was supposedly asking for. Rumor has it they intentionally requested something that could not realistically be fulfilled pertaining to an issue they had historically never been involved with before.

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#16 vladdy16

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 03:20 PM

Honestly though I don't think that's the best analogy because we're talking about entertainment, and the players are the talent. And elite talent at that.

It's like making major changes to a very popular tv show without getting any input from the stars on it.

The Datsyuk's of the league are why people buy tickets. I think the league forgets that sometime.

Which is why they probably should have at least made a gesture of including the NHLPA, but ultimately it's the owner's decision. The entertainment business is still a business. It's not like they're trying to move the NHL to Russia.
Can't wait to read the "Phoenix: I still think it's a hockey market" chapter of Gary Bettman's autobiography. I'm guessing it's going to be chapter 11.

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#17 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 03:20 PM

Oh, I agree 100%. Bettman said something along the lines of having a good season so far, why ruin that now. Makes me think he knows there is going to be a battle royal.



True, but I think it had more to do with that they were never involved before, why would they automatically expect to be now? I agree changes do happen (e.g. salary cap) but there was is precedence that the PA was never involved before, so again, why all of a sudden? Not to mention they can't just come up with a mock schedule overnight, which is what the PA was supposedly asking for. Rumor has it they intentionally requested something that could not realistically be fulfilled pertaining to an issue they had historically never been involved with before.

That would take a long time to produce, but I also find it hard to believe the league didn't work up a mock schedule for their own purposes when debating this issue. When concocting this plan, they must've at least done a rough workup of the travel consequences and schedule.

#18 drwscc

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 03:26 PM

What the players seem to forget is that they are not a finite commodity. Most people don't go to a game to see *just* Datsyuk. They go to see the Red Wings as a whole. I'm sure if the owners wanted to, they could find a whole league's worth of players that maybe haven't gotten a shot at the NHL level to fill out their teams. It's got to be a give and take, and with the NBA and NFL lockouts showing, both sides overhype their importance. If everyone takes a hardline stance, which they are showing classic signs of even now, next season will be cancelled or shortened.
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#19 rrasco

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 03:28 PM

That would take a long time to produce, but I also find it hard to believe the league didn't work up a mock schedule for their own purposes when debating this issue. When concocting this plan, they must've at least done a rough workup of the travel consequences and schedule.


Quite possibly. I think the biggest problem is this is like Democrats VS Republican, there are really no innocent parties. We the fans are citizens held hostage by the decisions and posturing both sides are willing to display and expect us to ultimately live by the outcome. In this case, the possibility of no season.

What the players seem to forget is that they are not a finite commodity. Most people don't go to a game to see *just* Datsyuk. They go to see the Red Wings as a whole. I'm sure if the owners wanted to, they could find a whole league's worth of players that maybe haven't gotten a shot at the NHL level to fill out their teams. It's got to be a give and take, and with the NBA and NFL lockouts showing, both sides overhype their importance. If everyone takes a hardline stance, which they are showing classic signs of even now, next season will be cancelled or shortened.



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Edited by rrasco, 14 March 2012 - 03:29 PM.

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#20 AceInTheSleeve

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 03:29 PM

I maintain that the realignment was not the best solution. I'm glad it got dropped. Lets face it, everyone would be bitching about those teams in the east making the playoffs easier as soon as western teams started missing the playoffs by a few points. Its a tight race as it is so it makes the advantage that much greater for the east. It was a garbage realignment and the NHL knows it, otherwise they'd push it through anyway.

Edited by AceInTheSleeve, 14 March 2012 - 03:30 PM.






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