• Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
Rhah

Bettman wants to tout the "Original 12" now, haha

Rate this topic

63 posts in this topic

Forgive me. Que?

O6:TNG

Kind of like they had Star Trek, and then they had TNG (the next generation), and then there were other spin-offs.

This is Original 6 (us) and then the next 6 is "the next generation", and then there's the spin-offs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

But I wouldn't say he's good for the game. Aside from locking the players out twice during his tenure and losing a season and a half of hockey, he also denied for years that clutching and grabbing was out of hand during the dead puck era. It wasn't until the lockout and the competition committee's involvement that they made adjustments to the game to allow skill players to play without getting mugged.

I would submit that Bettman is also the biggest reason we still have fighting in the game and we don't have shootouts in playoff overtime. You know the NBCs of the world would love to not dedicate so much extra prime network time to a triple OT, but Bettman is a traditionalist in many ways. I'm sure that conversation already happened and Bettman wasn't having any of it. As far as fighting goes there are individuals and groups that are actively trying to eliminate it from the game but Bettman has consistently defended it on record.

kipwinger likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

(..)

But I wouldn't say he's good for the game. Aside from locking the players out twice during his tenure and losing a season and a half of hockey, he also denied for years that clutching and grabbing was out of hand during the dead puck era. It wasn't until the lockout and the competition committee's involvement that they made adjustments to the game to allow skill players to play without getting mugged.

(..) Bettman is a traditionalist in many ways. I'm sure that conversation already happened and Bettman wasn't having any of it. As far as fighting goes there are individuals and groups that are actively trying to eliminate it from the game but Bettman has consistently defended it on record.

are you sure Gary has so much say about the shape of the game?

I don't think the guy has (and even is supposed to) have much understanding of the game. He's a lawyer and needs management and diplomacy skills to get 30 GMs (and NHLPA, at least sometimes) on the same page and make sure the product is marketable (which, don't get me wrong, is not decided by a couple of die hard fans like us, but masses who watch TV and buy tickets and merchandise). nothing less but also nothing more.

there are people in the NHL offices who understand the game and various aspects surrounding it. Gary is not to replace them but only to make the organization deliver. hard cash that is.

look, my company also exists because it delivers excellent product and knowledge support, but it's (among others) me who provides the service. my boss doesn't understand the finer points of service, but he's excellent at selling it to clients.

55fan likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Imagine my disappointment when I opened the link expecting to see Gary Bettman going on and on and on about the historic significance of the "Original 12". I was fully prepared to scream bloody murder because the OP had led me to believe that Bettman was TOUTING the "Original 12" as opposed to just explaining that St. Louis was indeed one of the original twelve teams and then returning to the topic at hand, the Blues new ownership. When it comes to Bettman's shenanigans it's always best to be prepared, so while I can't scream bloody murder as planned, I'm always ready (as is the OP) to cry wolf over any of Gary's various infractions and disgraces. So I'm putting it on notice, if Gary Bettman doesn't right this wrong immediately, I'm going to start a jihad against him. And the only way he can fix this eggregious folly is to begin TOUTING a new concept: the "Unoriginal 24". The resulting t-shirts and commercials touting this concept will truly put the rest of those pansy assed teams in their place for good!

Yeah my fault, I made an inflammatory post topic... I had just never heard of the term "original" being used for the next 6 teams... oh, and I don't like Gary.

kipwinger likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's the Original Six, end of discussion.

Nobody can make you include something you don't want to include or call something a name you don't want to. Really. Legally. The Denver Broncos and Invesco took the writers of I believe the now defunct Rocky Mountain News to court for not referring to Mile High Stadium as Invesco Field at Mile High. They actually sued the papers and writers and of course lost.

I'm invoking this same legal precedent here.

55fan likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

are you sure Gary has so much say about the shape of the game?

I don't think the guy has (and even is supposed to) have much understanding of the game. He's a lawyer and needs management and diplomacy skills to get 30 GMs (and NHLPA, at least sometimes) on the same page and make sure the product is marketable (which, don't get me wrong, is not decided by a couple of die hard fans like us, but masses who watch TV and buy tickets and merchandise). nothing less but also nothing more.

there are people in the NHL offices who understand the game and various aspects surrounding it. Gary is not to replace them but only to make the organization deliver. hard cash that is.

look, my company also exists because it delivers excellent product and knowledge support, but it's (among others) me who provides the service. my boss doesn't understand the finer points of service, but he's excellent at selling it to clients.

He has say about the shape of the game, because a big part of his job is to get 30 GM's to agree on things.

That's my biggest problem with Bettman, that he has little to no understanding, or at least no passion for the game. And yes, he is supposed to have it. When you're in charge of a billion dollar company, you should have a pretty good understanding of what the product is. To further your analogy, I don't expect Bettman to have a great slapshot, or even know how to skate. But I expect him to understand the ins and outs of the game itself, not just the business side. And as importantly, have a love for the game since he more than anyone else is its steward.

55fan likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bettman's probably trying to create some interest in the LA-Phoenix series, as LA was in the first waive of expansion. Plus his favorite player, Cindy Crosby, and favorite team, Pittsburgh, is part of an "Original 12" team.

Bettman keeps talking about how well the League is doing, but I heard talk today on the Buffalo sports talk station, WGR 550am, about how the clutch, grab, and playing the trap is back in the game. One caller said teams may as well just put 4 players in front of the net to block shots, that's what it's coming too. As mentioned, I haven't been watching, so I can't comment on it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

He has say about the shape of the game, because a big part of his job is to get 30 GM's to agree on things.

That's my biggest problem with Bettman, that he has little to no understanding, or at least no passion for the game. And yes, he is supposed to have it. When you're in charge of a billion dollar company, you should have a pretty good understanding of what the product is. To further your analogy, I don't expect Bettman to have a great slapshot, or even know how to skate. But I expect him to understand the ins and outs of the game itself, not just the business side. And as importantly, have a love for the game since he more than anyone else is its steward.

I don't know that he doesn't have any knowledge of the game. He's had the job for ten years now and is constantly surrounded by officials, former players, union reps, etc. I'd imagine he knows plenty about the game, and certainly knows the difference between "The Original Six" and the first twelve NHL teams. I just happen to think that there are essentially two ways of thinking about this: Loving the game = not deviating too much from its traditional format, and loving the game = wanting to see the NHL as a premier league in professional sports, complete with premier tv deals, premier talent, and premier fan bases. Bettman obviously belongs to the second way of thinking, as do most of the owners. Doesn't really make him more or less knowledgeable, but I do think that his ability to affect the direction and future of the sport certainly influences the way he sees the game. I'm not saying his way of thinking is right or wrong, but it's definitely informed, and understandable. As a matter of fact, I'd say that Bettman's perspective on the game is as knowledgeable, and more unique than anyone else on earth, given the fact that he alone has to address the combined concerns of the owners, players, officials, and fans every single year to the best of his ability.

Note: Sorry to be long winded but just think about the example of the Realignment. Owners care about cost, profits, home/away scheduling, etc. Players care about travel, fatigue, family time, etc. Fans want to see rivalries, prime time games, quality competition, etc. On top of all that, the concerns of the owners, players, and fans of any one team, are different than the concerns of the owners, players, fans of every other team. Ultimately, coming up with a plan that best satisfies all of these demands falls solely on Bettman and his staff, and personally I don't think anybody who didn't know much about the game could possibly do it. And that's just one issue.

Edited by kipwinger

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

loving the game = wanting to see the NHL as a premier league in professional sports, complete with premier tv deals, premier talent, and premier fan bases. Bettman obviously belongs to the second way of thinking, as do most of the owners. Doesn't really make him more or less knowledgeable, but I do think that his ability to affect the direction and future of the sport certainly influences the way he sees the game.

Nothing against what you said, it's just my personal opinion about Bettman. That's the thing that bugs me most about the guy, and the Board of Governors, is that they don't seem to have a clue about how to make the NHL a premier sport. Bettman seems more concerned about his bankrupt teams than his richest markets. Personally I've been wondering the last few years why I continue to watch, when strange things seem to happen against the Wings in the Playoffs to favor Pittsburgh, San Jose, and Nashville. Bettman seems to have his favorite teams, i.e. Phoenix and Pittsburgh, and continually tried to market the League around one of it's most hated and whiniest player.

Also I wonder sometimes who's in charge of market research of the NHL. Including the booos and anti comments for Crosby, take a listen to any sports talk station in America, and Americans wonder why they allow fighting and hits to the head. If you want to be thought of the same as the NFL, MLB, and NBA, you need to listen to your fans.

I don't know what the NHL is afraid of if they ban fighting and hits to the head. How many fans would they lose if there was no more fights or hits to the head? I say zero. Plus if anyone just watches for the fights and hits to the head, you don't want them as fans anyway.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't know that he doesn't have any knowledge of the game. He's had the job for ten years now and is constantly surrounded by officials, former players, union reps, etc. I'd imagine he knows plenty about the game, and certainly knows the difference between "The Original Six" and the first twelve NHL teams. I just happen to think that there are essentially two ways of thinking about this: Loving the game = not deviating too much from its traditional format, and loving the game = wanting to see the NHL as a premier league in professional sports, complete with premier tv deals, premier talent, and premier fan bases. Bettman obviously belongs to the second way of thinking, as do most of the owners. Doesn't really make him more or less knowledgeable, but I do think that his ability to affect the direction and future of the sport certainly influences the way he sees the game. I'm not saying his way of thinking is right or wrong, but it's definitely informed, and understandable. As a matter of fact, I'd say that Bettman's perspective on the game is as knowledgeable, and more unique than anyone else on earth, given the fact that he alone has to address the combined concerns of the owners, players, officials, and fans every single year to the best of his ability.

Note: Sorry to be long winded but just think about the example of the Realignment. Owners care about cost, profits, home/away scheduling, etc. Players care about travel, fatigue, family time, etc. Fans want to see rivalries, prime time games, quality competition, etc. On top of all that, the concerns of the owners, players, and fans of any one team, are different than the concerns of the owners, players, fans of every other team. Ultimately, coming up with a plan that best satisfies all of these demands falls solely on Bettman and his staff, and personally I don't think anybody who didn't know much about the game could possibly do it. And that's just one issue.

But that's not what Bettman did with that issue at all. He went and talked to all the owners and they created a plan without ever consulting the players or NHLPA. Then he gave an incredibly short deadline for the NHLPA to consult with its members and consider all the implications of the realignment, putting them in the position of having to hold up approving it. He wasn't coming up with a plan that satisfies the players at all. He was appeasing the owners and using the realignment to make the NHLPA look bad headed into CBA negotiations. And now that he got his cap rammed through last time, I fully expect this round will include putting the screws to the players again to get the owners a larger share of profits, while using tactics to make the players union look bad, like he did with realignment. The negotiations haven't even begun and Bettman has set a divisive tone with his remarks about the NHLPA and the realignment plan.

I don't think loving the game necessarily means not deviating from the original format. Look at Shanahan. The guy clearly loves the game, but has also come up with some pretty innovative ideas to try and improve it. Bettman is beholden to all the GM's, sometimes at the cost of the greater good of the game, and it shows. I'm not saying he has an easy job. It's an incredibly hard one. I just think part of the NHL commissioner's job should include protecting the integrity of the game and sometimes preventing the owners from being their own worst enemy. And in that regard, Bettman is lacking.

But by far his most annoying quality is his condescending remarks towards fans and what they think. Basically telling us time and time again that we're wrong. "Clutching and grabbing? Nope. Fans and players have told me they love how the game is played." "Officiating? Are refs do a great job and fans and players have told me they're happy with the job the officials are doing."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

But that's not what Bettman did with that issue at all. He went and talked to all the owners and they created a plan without ever consulting the players or NHLPA. Then he gave an incredibly short deadline for the NHLPA to consult with its members and consider all the implications of the realignment, putting them in the position of having to hold up approving it. He wasn't coming up with a plan that satisfies the players at all. He was appeasing the owners and using the realignment to make the NHLPA look bad headed into CBA negotiations. And now that he got his cap rammed through last time, I fully expect this round will include putting the screws to the players again to get the owners a larger share of profits, while using tactics to make the players union look bad, like he did with realignment. The negotiations haven't even begun and Bettman has set a divisive tone with his remarks about the NHLPA and the realignment plan.

I don't think loving the game necessarily means not deviating from the original format. Look at Shanahan. The guy clearly loves the game, but has also come up with some pretty innovative ideas to try and improve it. Bettman is beholden to all the GM's, sometimes at the cost of the greater good of the game, and it shows. I'm not saying he has an easy job. It's an incredibly hard one. I just think part of the NHL commissioner's job should include protecting the integrity of the game and sometimes preventing the owners from being their own worst enemy. And in that regard, Bettman is lacking.

But by far his most annoying quality is his condescending remarks towards fans and what they think. Basically telling us time and time again that we're wrong. "Clutching and grabbing? Nope. Fans and players have told me they love how the game is played." "Officiating? Are refs do a great job and fans and players have told me they're happy with the job the officials are doing."

I'll grant you the fact that he didn't give the NHLPA enough time, that was definitely a hardball tactic. However, I do think that the new plan had players in mind, or at least half of them. The new plan while good for players in the west would have meant MORE traveling time (time away from home) for the players in the Eastern Conference, which is why they were largely leading the charge against realignment. If you look at our own players remarks you saw a clear change in response only after the eastern teams had their say. Our guys were largely in favor of it, and then crawfished as soon as everybody else had their say. Which was my point all along, trying to balance that many plates takes a lot of know how, which I think he has, and still not everybody was satisfied.

As far as remarks to players and fans go, I can't really say what he's been hearing from players. I don't know that any of us can. But when it comes to fans I will say this. Just look on this message board at how many fans have asinine preferences that could never be realistically satisfied by anyone short of god, let alone the league commissioner. I know there are tons of knowledgeable fans out there, and many on here as well, and many of those knowledgeable fans are at the very least 50/50 with regards to Bettman's performance. But you can't satisfy everyone, especially when (like anything else) the most vocal people are the ones who aren't going to be satisfied no matter what he does. If my college years working food service taught me anything it's that the people who ***** the most, don't really know s***, and the people who are satisfied, rarely have anything to say. I'd be condescending too if I was bombarded with comments ranging from "you're a weasel" to "You've ruined the game" to "there's only six original teams" every single day. My guess is, the reasonable criticisms are being addressed reasonably, but they're difficult and can't be fixed as flawlessly as many of us would like.

Edited by kipwinger

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'll grant you the fact that he didn't give the NHLPA enough time, that was definitely a hardball tactic. However, I do think that the new plan had players in mind, or at least half of them. The new plan while good for players in the west would have meant MORE traveling time (time away from home) for the players in the Eastern Conference, which is why they were largely leading the charge against realignment. If you look at our own players remarks you saw a clear change in response only after the eastern teams had their say. Our guys were largely in favor of it, and then crawfished as soon as everybody else had their say. Which was my point all along, trying to balance that many plates takes a lot of know how, which I think he has, and still not everybody was satisfied.

As far as remarks to players and fans go, I can't really say what he's been hearing from players. I don't know that any of us can. But when it comes to fans I will say this. Just look on this message board at how many fans have asinine preferences that could never be realistically satisfied by anyone short of god, let alone the league commissioner. I know there are tons of knowledgeable fans out there, and many on here as well, and many of those knowledgeable fans are at the very least 50/50 with regards to Bettman's performance. But you can't satisfy everyone, especially when (like anything else) the most vocal people are the ones who aren't going to be satisfied no matter what he does. If my college years working food service taught me anything it's that the people who ***** the most, don't really know s***, and the people who are satisfied, rarely have anything to say. I'd be condescending too if I was bombarded with comments ranging from "you're a weasel" to "You've ruined the game" to "there's only six original teams" every single day. My guess is, the reasonable criticisms are being addressed reasonably, but they're difficult and can't be fixed as flawlessly as many of us would like.

Well the realignment definitely had the players in mind in that it affected travel, but he didn't actually ask the players. In fact, in the media he went so far as to point out that they technically didn't have to consult with the NHLPA, as if he was doing them so favor. Maybe by the letter of the law, but that's your friggin talent you're talking about there Gary. Maybe you should actually ask them since it affects their day to day lives as much as anyone. No one goes to games to see his weasely face sitting in the stands, or goes to Wings games to see Illitch's latest plastic surgery or hairpiece. They go there to watch the players.

And I would agree Bettman is probably 50/50. For me his performance should really be judged in the next 3 to 5 years to see how many of his southern expansion attempts are profitable or have failed, and if we have lost all or part of a third season of hockey because of his hard ball tactics with the CBA negotiations.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well the realignment definitely had the players in mind in that it affected travel, but he didn't actually ask the players. In fact, in the media he went so far as to point out that they technically didn't have to consult with the NHLPA, as if he was doing them so favor. Maybe by the letter of the law, but that's your friggin talent you're talking about there Gary. Maybe you should actually ask them since it affects their day to day lives as much as anyone. No one goes to games to see his weasely face sitting in the stands, or goes to Wings games to see Illitch's latest plastic surgery or hairpiece. They go there to watch the players.

And I would agree Bettman is probably 50/50. For me his performance should really be judged in the next 3 to 5 years to see how many of his southern expansion attempts are profitable or have failed, and if we have lost all or part of a third season of hockey because of his hard ball tactics with the CBA negotiations.

Well I don't really see the need to consult the players when the NHLPA had to ratify any proposed realignment anyway. All it might have done is expedite the failure of the plan. West teams wanted it, east teams didn't. That wasn't going to change just because he talked to them early on. This is what I mean about Bettman, he's the only guy in the entire NHL who has to think about someone other than himself. The owners think about their teams and players first, the players think about themselves and their families first, etc. etc. etc. Bettman is the only person tasked with coming up with ways accommodate 30 teams, 30 owners, hundreds of players, and millions of fans. All of whom are thinking about what's best for their respective teams. He's never going to find a perfect fit, but the hope is that he can come up with something that everyone can live with. I'd imagine it's extremely difficult, time consuming, and takes knowledgeable perspective of the players, teams, and league that nobody else is required to have. Which was all I way saying to begin with, I don't think he doesn't know anything (or care any) about the game. But the requirements of his job make it necessary for him to make decisions from multiple points of view.

However, none of this should be read as an exaltation of Bettman the commissioner. That story is still writing itself and you're correct in saying that history will be the best judge of that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0