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Guest blueadams

We can still win it all THIS season, but...

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I hate how these ridiculous trade threads keep popping up. You're not a GM, you do not know what's going on behind the scenes. You expect Holland to do backflips with a broken spine.

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We wont get doan for 6 mill one year if he already was offered a longer term at 7.5...

Your basing this on.... what? Your statement makes the assumption that contract length + $$$ is *all* that matters to Doan. Clearly it's not all the matters as he is contemplating leaving the Yotes due to the uncertain future of the franchise. He wants to know where he will live for the next 3-4 years and the chance to win a cup more than anything else i'd wager. I am not saying Doan will sign with the Wings, but we can offer a consistent cup contending team and a fair contract.

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Uh, no. You're leaving out a critical point from that statement. We're actually whining about getting younger with proven talent. Brunner and Nyquist are not, as of now, proven NHL top-6 forwards and until then, yes, we will continue to whine about getting younger with proven NHL caliber players.

I get your point, but I think it's somewhat of a naive position. Yes, it's possible to trade / sign young proven talent, but they are difficult / expensive to obtain. It seems that if you have the position of wanting young talent, it is smart to take a shot on your own prospects. In other words, it seems you should be happy to give Brunner and Nyquist time and applaud Ken Holland for doing so, given your position.

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That was gospel yo(redwings dad). But drop franzen add miller to abbys line and move sammy t franzens position and it looks a hell of a lot better.

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At the end of the day, regardless of what your excuse is..... if the decisions you make/don't make as a GM are gradually leading your team to become weaker and weaker, than you're simply not doing a good job as GM. Simple.

Decisions like throwing the bank at a couple players result in a couple years of harmony and years of mediocrity. I would rather the Wings have a good roster and make the playoffs every year than sign Parise and Suter for 10 years for huge money, and then not make the playoffs for the last 5-6 years of that deal.

So far, all I have heard from you is that "Holland isn't doing enough". What would you have done if you were in his spot? Trade away all your young talent to win now? Sign Weber to a $120 million dollar offer sheet? The way the Wings are built now, they will make the playoffs. After that, as evidenced by the Kings this season, anything can happen once the playoffs start and it doesn't matter where you place.

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Decisions like throwing the bank at a couple players result in a couple years of harmony and years of mediocrity.

I dunno about that...

Holland was forced to do so with Fedorov...The same could be said at the time about Datsyuk...It's a team by team thing - for some it'll work, and others it's blow up in their faces.

Although I agree with your example of Parise (and Suter) with Minnesota; no doubt they'll be a "better" team, but those 2 guys alone won't make them a legit contender for the Cup.

Weber in Philly I feel is a toss-up; we'll see if they have to make any more moves in order to stay under the cap if it were to drop with the new CBA.

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Decisions like throwing the bank at a couple players result in a couple years of harmony and years of mediocrity. I would rather the Wings have a good roster and make the playoffs every year than sign Parise and Suter for 10 years for huge money, and then not make the playoffs for the last 5-6 years of that deal.

So far, all I have heard from you is that "Holland isn't doing enough". What would you have done if you were in his spot? Trade away all your young talent to win now? Sign Weber to a $120 million dollar offer sheet? The way the Wings are built now, they will make the playoffs. After that, as evidenced by the Kings this season, anything can happen once the playoffs start and it doesn't matter where you place.

I'm not sure the Kings are the best example for the point you're making.

I's overlooking that the Kings traded two promising young players and a pick to bring in Richards before the season started, fired their coach halfway through the season, and traded away a talented young defenseman they had signed long term to bring in Carter. They also called up two kids from the minors and gave them a lot of playing time in spite of their lack of experience.

Those are all very bold moves and un-Holland like. It's not like the Kings made minor tweaks, got into the playoffs then suddenly everything fell into place. They were a good team for a couple seasons, especially defensively, that made very bold moves to get them to the Cup.

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I dunno about that...

Holland was forced to do so with Fedorov...The same could be said at the time about Datsyuk...It's a team by team thing - for some it'll work, and others it's blow up in their faces.

Although I agree with your example of Parise (and Suter) with Minnesota; no doubt they'll be a "better" team, but those 2 guys alone won't make them a legit contender for the Cup.

Weber in Philly I feel is a toss-up; we'll see if they have to make any more moves in order to stay under the cap if it were to drop with the new CBA.

Can't really compare the Fedorov situation with today. There was no salary cap back then. Dats' salary is representative of a top line player.

Otherwise, we are in total agreement.

I'm not sure the Kings are the best example for the point you're making.

I's overlooking that the Kings traded two promising young players and a pick to bring in Richards before the season started, fired their coach halfway through the season, and traded away a talented young defenseman they had signed long term to bring in Carter. They also called up two kids from the minors and gave them a lot of playing time in spite of their lack of experience.

Those are all very bold moves and un-Holland like. It's not like the Kings made minor tweaks, got into the playoffs then suddenly everything fell into place. They were a good team for a couple seasons, especially defensively, that made very bold moves to get them to the Cup.

Very true, but my point of just getting into the playoffs still stands.

Holland will have to make some bold moves this year in order to excel in the playoffs. Giving kids top line minutes and hoping they shine. He may even have to go after players that are floundering on teams and get them to come here, which means more bold moves. Right now, the only thing we know is that Holland is going to give kids the ice time they need to either sink or swim. Very un-Holland like? Yes. Bold moves? Yes. Give him a little credit for at least making the bold decision to do that.

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Can't really compare the Fedorov situation with today. There was no salary cap back then. Dats' salary is representative of a top line player.

Otherwise, we are in total agreement.

Very true, but my point of just getting into the playoffs still stands.

Holland will have to make some bold moves this year in order to excel in the playoffs. Giving kids top line minutes and hoping they shine. He may even have to go after players that are floundering on teams and get them to come here, which means more bold moves. Right now, the only thing we know is that Holland is going to give kids the ice time they need to either sink or swim. Very un-Holland like? Yes. Bold moves? Yes. Give him a little credit for at least making the bold decision to do that.

Honestly I don't consider that a very bold move, as right now he doesn't really have a choice. Unless he makes some big free agent splash or trade, the kids are gonna get plenty of ice time.

A bolder move would've been giving Smith ice time last year to get him some time with Lidstrom. Even with his mistakes, Smith clearly had more to offer than Kindl, but was his contract status determined his fate not his performance on the ice.

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Honestly I don't consider that a very bold move, as right now he doesn't really have a choice. Unless he makes some big free agent splash or trade, the kids are gonna get plenty of ice time.

A bolder move would've been giving Smith ice time last year to get him some time with Lidstrom. Even with his mistakes, Smith clearly had more to offer than Kindl, but was his contract status determined his fate not his performance on the ice.

After thinking about what you said, I agree. At first, I thought your line of reasoning was a line of horse crap. Then, what I got to think about it, I realized how correct you were. Bold moves are made when you have choices. Holland has no choice at this point. Playing Smith last year with Lids would have been a bold move, but instead, they put him on the 3rd line. I know I was clamoring for Smith to be paired with Lids on the top line for the entire season. That would have really helped with his maturity and defensive skills. Instead, Ian White got to play with Lids and do well. I bet Smith would have gotten more out of it though.

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We can still win it all THIS season, but...the team still has Franzine on it...

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I for one am not excited about this season. nothing to look forward to, basically same team that failed last season but our defense got worse

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I for one am not excited about this season. nothing to look forward to, basically same team that failed last season but our defense got worse

I hear the Flyers forum is accepting registrations. :D

Maybe they will be more of a contender for you.

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In the end we will be routing for the wings and winning our fair share like every year. We can still win this like we already do every year if we stick to the team plans that we have for 20+ seasons and retain patience with the managment that have accomplised the above already mentioned.

Edited by Hey man nice shot!

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I for one am not excited about this season. nothing to look forward to, basically same team that failed last season but our defense got worse

feel pretty much the exact same to be honest. we were a six seed last season. a six seed. people seem to forget that for some reason. or refuse to even acknowledge it in the first place. we got a lot worse defensively, and are about the same offensively. seems like most of the other top teams in the west have been making moves to get better. LA's certainly not going anywhere. I don't know what there really is to be excited about?

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feel pretty much the exact same to be honest. we were a six seed last season. a six seed. people seem to forget that for some reason. or refuse to even acknowledge it in the first place. we got a lot worse defensively, and are about the same offensively. seems like most of the other top teams in the west have been making moves to get better. LA's certainly not going anywhere. I don't know what there really is to be excited about?

5th seed actually (6th might have been better, as I think we'd have had a better shot at beating the Coyotes). However, we were also tied for 7th most points in the league.

LA was an 8th seed, 13th in points. I know you're all up on their bandwagon, but they aren't nearly as good as you think they are. I wouldn't be at all surprised if they miss the playoffs next year.

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5th seed actually (6th might have been better, as I think we'd have had a better shot at beating the Coyotes). However, we were also tied for 7th most points in the league.

LA was an 8th seed, 13th in points. I know you're all up on their bandwagon, but they aren't nearly as good as you think they are. I wouldn't be at all surprised if they miss the playoffs next year.

We lost in five games in the first round. The Kings won the Cup.

Just saying.

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