Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Why no youth injecton


  • Please log in to reply
69 replies to this topic

#1 RusDRW

RusDRW

    1st Line All-Star

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,349 posts
  • Location:Tampere, FI

Posted 10 December 2012 - 03:57 PM

Most likely we will se B. Smith this year (this year could be 2013-2014s li) but no regulars like Nyquist,Tatar, Shaehan. Why are we different? Compared to, say, SJS who injected Couture in 2010 and who scored one of the most deciding goals that series....
Sweet. This dude was brought here for one reason, to punch people in the head - every other thing that he can do, other Wings can do better. I like that we have a head-puncher. The league has other, better head-punchers, but this one is ours. Better than nothing. Good work, Kenny!

© mikah

#2 Crymson

Crymson

    Ninjelephant

  • Gold Booster
  • 11,032 posts
  • Location:Denver, CO, USA

Posted 10 December 2012 - 04:15 PM

Nyquist and Tatar will be in the NHL should there be a season. Sheahan is not ready; he is too slow, he is not doing well in the AHL, and he is---as events have shown clearly---not mature enough.

Couture's goal was a total stinker. It came on a brainfart by Howard, who was likewise a rookie.

#3 Buppy

Buppy

    1st Line All-Star

  • Silver Booster
  • 1,980 posts

Posted 10 December 2012 - 05:05 PM

Most likely we will se B. Smith this year (this year could be 2013-2014s li) but no regulars like Nyquist,Tatar, Shaehan. Why are we different? Compared to, say, SJS who injected Couture in 2010 and who scored one of the most deciding goals that series....

In the last few seasons we have brought up Helm, Abby, Ericsson, Howard, Kindl, Emmerton, and Mursak. We'll add Smith whenever the next season starts, with Nyquist, Brunner, and Tatar all likely in the competition, though they may need to wait a year.

Maybe if we'd had the 9th overall pick in one of our recent drafts we'd have someone like Couture. Tougher to find those guys at 19 or later.

#4 GoWings1905

GoWings1905

    Legend

  • Gold Booster
  • 5,275 posts

Posted 10 December 2012 - 05:32 PM

The Red Wings have been getting younger, particularly at a pretty rapid pace the past two summers. Like Buppy stated, the Red Wings have been picking in the 20's for two decades now so it's tougher to inject quality young talent than say a Chicago did.

Fortunately, nobody has scouted nor developed players from later rounds better than the Red Wings. Very few franchises can sustain success without having to go through a rebuild. 20 plus years in an era of free agency and parity is nothing short of impossible.

The crossroads are here now for the Red Wings. They are younger and haven't picked high plus other teams have caught up in scouting. We are going to see an adjustment period and it may not be pretty short-term, but you can also already see the evidence that the front office is adapting to the league. We have needed to get bigger, faster and younger for years.
  • Nev likes this
 
 
"To whom much is given, much is expected."
 
 

 

 

 

 


#5 Rivalred

Rivalred

    Legend

  • HoF Booster
  • 7,274 posts

Posted 10 December 2012 - 06:50 PM

Sheahan can't even pass as a TeleTubey...
D-Fence Avatar Win-O-Meter 8-1

#6 The Axe

The Axe

    Hall-of-Famer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,379 posts

Posted 10 December 2012 - 10:47 PM

Bertuzzi, Holmstrom, Sammuelson, Etc. We are infatuated with yesterday's news.

#7 dirtydangles

dirtydangles

    Hall-of-Famer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,729 posts

Posted 10 December 2012 - 11:11 PM

Tatar and Nyquist are almost PPG in GR. I would love to see them transition them in and sammy and bert out in a year... smith will be up this year and we will need to transition ouellet and sproul to the ahl next season. Almquist has been a nice surprise so far so having those three in gr with smith up is nice to have for the future.

PS. Ferraro tearing it up in GR... just saying.

Is there a kickstarter campaign for Jakub Kindl to never play another NHL game?


#8 GoWings1905

GoWings1905

    Legend

  • Gold Booster
  • 5,275 posts

Posted 10 December 2012 - 11:15 PM

Bertuzzi, Holmstrom, Sammuelson, Etc. We are infatuated with yesterday's news.


Holmstrom is likely done, Bertuzzi is cheap for a veteran and I can't really argue the Samuelsson point.

That being said, look at the some of the names gone in just the past couple years alone: Lidstrom, Rafalski, Draper, Maltby, Osgood, Salei (RIP), Modano are no longer with the organization. It seems like the Red Wings have been the oldest team in the NHL forever and now I believe their average age is somewhere around 27.

I think the biggest concern out of this youth movement is the fact our three best players aren't exactly young still. Datsyuk, Zetterberg and Kronwall are 34, 32 and 31 respectively. Add another year probably to all three by the time they play another hockey game. The Red Wings have stayed great for so long because they always have that next wave ready to step in and take over. Does that exist somewhere internally now when those three are done or slowed down having not ever been blessed with high picks?

The Red Wings are in a different position going forward. When you win with a bunch of veterans, it's experience. When you lose, it's guys that are washed up. It's a tough balance to strike because I can almost guarantee there are going to be shortfalls to come with such a drastic roster transformation. I have said for years the Red Wings need new blood, but it makes me nervous when you consider the circumstances and the players getting replaced.

Edited by GoWings1905, 11 December 2012 - 01:38 PM.

 
 
"To whom much is given, much is expected."
 
 

 

 

 

 


#9 dirtydangles

dirtydangles

    Hall-of-Famer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,729 posts

Posted 10 December 2012 - 11:36 PM

Just spitballing.... If Jarnkrok and Pulkkinen come over next year we have a great year of development in GR ahead. Almost no veterans.

2013-2014 Griffins:


Tatar – Jarnkrok – Pulkkinen
Tvrdon - Sheahan – Jurco
Parkes - Ferraro - Pare
Hoggan - Andersson – Callahan
Aubry, Raedeke

Ouellet – Sproul
Almquist – Nicastro
Lashoff – Billins
Paetsch, Evans

Mrazek, McCollum

Is there a kickstarter campaign for Jakub Kindl to never play another NHL game?


#10 hooon

hooon

    Hall-of-Famer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,231 posts
  • Location:Denver

Posted 11 December 2012 - 01:21 AM

We're not as old as everyone thinks.

Holmstrom is gone. Nyquist and Smith are locks. Tatar has a pretty decent chance and I believe he is still waiver exempt so there's no need to rush him necessarily. If he's not up full time, he'll certainly be the first injury call up. Brunner isn't exactly a youngster, but he's still a fresh face to the team.

Like most, I was never wild about the Bert and Sammy signings, but really they aren't that bad. Sammy with 30 goals two years ago, Bert's physical presence, etc. they are pretty decent for the next season or so. Babcock has put both of them on the 3rd line or lower before, so if they aren't performing, or if others are exceeding expectations there's no reason to think Bert and Sammy are locks for the top 6. I think Nyquist and Brunner will certainly get looks on the top two lines.

Then after this year, more FAs that could definitely be leaving Detroit.
Posted Image

#11 Nev

Nev

    Hall-of-Famer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,058 posts
  • Location:Lincolnshire, England

Posted 11 December 2012 - 01:27 AM

The Red Wings have been getting younger, particularly at a pretty rapid pace the past two summers. Like Buppy stated, the Red Wings have been picking in the 20's for two decades now so it's tougher to inject quality young talent than say a Chicago did.

Fortunately, nobody has scouted nor developed players from later rounds better than the Red Wings. Very few franchises can sustain success without having to go through a rebuild. 20 plus years in an era of free agency and parity is nothing short of impossible.

The crossroads are here now for the Red Wings. They are younger and haven't picked high plus other teams have caught up in scouting. We are going to see an adjustment period and it may not be pretty short-term, but you can also already see the evidence that the front office is adapting to the league. We have needed to get bigger, faster and younger for years.


I agree with everything in this post.
"If I can be totally honest, it's not a lot of guys you get impressed by. Actually, it's no one else but him. From the bench, to see what move he makes -- you're like, 'I wish I could do that.' Sometimes you sit on the bench and just think, 'wow,' and you look over to the other bench and they sit there and shake their heads, too. He has great, great skills. I'm probably not going to play with another player who has the kind of skills he has." Mikael Samuelsson on Pavel Datsyuk

#12 irishock

irishock

    Into the sunset

  • Silver Booster
  • 1,837 posts

Posted 11 December 2012 - 01:42 AM

From the sounds of things, Brunner will start the season on Zetterberg's line while Samuelsson is probably on Datsyuk's line. Helm, Cleary, Bertuzzi and Abdelkader have guaranteed spots which leaves 2 open for Tootoo, Miller, Nyquist, Tatar. I think Miller is probably in after last year's campaign, so it's between Tootoo and Nyquist. Probably Tootoo when we face St. Louis/Vancouver/etc. and Nyquist against weaker teams

Cleary is probably gone after this season and Bertuzzi will be Holmstrom, so I think by then guys like Tatar and Jurco will be full timers

Edited by irishock, 11 December 2012 - 01:44 AM.

bringit.jpg


#13 irishock

irishock

    Into the sunset

  • Silver Booster
  • 1,837 posts

Posted 11 December 2012 - 01:49 AM

Sheahan can't even pass as a TeleTubey...

WRONG. Detroit athletes have a good track record of over-performing to the extreme after a DUI arrest. Zetterberg should beware of Sheahan taking the C soon.

bringit.jpg


#14 darkmanx

darkmanx

    Toronto's Finest

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,651 posts
  • Location:Toronto, Canada

Posted 11 December 2012 - 07:17 AM

From the sounds of things, Brunner will start the season on Zetterberg's line while Samuelsson is probably on Datsyuk's line. Helm, Cleary, Bertuzzi and Abdelkader have guaranteed spots which leaves 2 open for Tootoo, Miller, Nyquist, Tatar. I think Miller is probably in after last year's campaign, so it's between Tootoo and Nyquist. Probably Tootoo when we face St. Louis/Vancouver/etc. and Nyquist against weaker teams

Cleary is probably gone after this season and Bertuzzi will be Holmstrom, so I think by then guys like Tatar and Jurco will be full timers


So Brunner gets top 6 minutes, but Nyquist gets subbed with TooToo ? Don't think so. Nyquist after playing like he is in the AHL, will either be top 6 (especially since Brunner hasn't even played in NA yet) or on the third line.

#15 Buppy

Buppy

    1st Line All-Star

  • Silver Booster
  • 1,980 posts

Posted 11 December 2012 - 11:21 PM

From the sounds of things, Brunner will start the season on Zetterberg's line while Samuelsson is probably on Datsyuk's line. Helm, Cleary, Bertuzzi and Abdelkader have guaranteed spots which leaves 2 open for Tootoo, Miller, Nyquist, Tatar. I think Miller is probably in after last year's campaign, so it's between Tootoo and Nyquist. Probably Tootoo when we face St. Louis/Vancouver/etc. and Nyquist against weaker teams
...

We also have Emmerton, Mursak, and Eaves in the mix. I wouldn't think Nyquist, Tatar, or Brunner would have a sure roster spot, considering they are all waiver exempt and we won't have a real training camp. They may have to wait for next year, or at least an injury to create an opening.

Of course, we may not have hockey until next year anyway...

#16 LeftWinger

LeftWinger

    42 years in Detroit! Time to spend the rest in paradise!

  • Silver Booster
  • 8,626 posts
  • Location:HART - MI

Posted 12 December 2012 - 01:11 AM

The Red Wings have been getting younger, particularly at a pretty rapid pace the past two summers. Like Buppy stated, the Red Wings have been picking in the 20's for two decades now so it's tougher to inject quality young talent than say a Chicago did.

Fortunately, nobody has scouted nor developed players from later rounds better than the Red Wings. Very few franchises can sustain success without having to go through a rebuild. 20 plus years in an era of free agency and parity is nothing short of impossible.

The crossroads are here now for the Red Wings. They are younger and haven't picked high plus other teams have caught up in scouting. We are going to see an adjustment period and it may not be pretty short-term, but you can also already see the evidence that the front office is adapting to the league. We have needed to get bigger, faster and younger for years.


Ya, why should the Wings draft a TJ Oshie (#24) Matt Niskanen (#28) Steve Downie (#29) James Neal (#33) Marc Edourad Vlasic (#35) Paul Stastny (#44) when Jakub Kindl (#19) is available...Kenny seemed to do very well this last draft, but he blew it in 2005...God forbid he ever finds himself with a top 5 pick.

I know the draft is a gamble and a lot of teams drop the puck persay, but all this talk about how the team isn't young and great because of the Wings drafting in the 20's year after year, I find it funny how the one time he is in the teens, he blows it with a wasted player who won't be on this team too much longer....

Don't Be Jealous, But I Live Here...

www.thinkdunes.com

 

Aww You Mad Bro? Are You Butt Hurt?


#17 Johnz96

Johnz96

    1st Line All-Star

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,423 posts

Posted 12 December 2012 - 01:28 AM

Because of a big injection of 3rd and 4th line and veteran's who still have contracts yet expired.
Personally I think we would have been better to try Nyquist, Brunner and Tatar and if they didn't all work out have cap space for a trade and hopefully land a big fish but Kenny has more experience and success at these things than I do.

Ya, why should the Wings draft a TJ Oshie (#24) Matt Niskanen (#28) Steve Downie (#29) James Neal (#33) Marc Edourad Vlasic (#35) Paul Stastny (#44) when Jakub Kindl (#19) is available...Kenny seemed to do very well this last draft, but he blew it in 2005...God forbid he ever finds himself with a top 5 pick.

I know the draft is a gamble and a lot of teams drop the puck persay, but all this talk about how the team isn't young and great because of the Wings drafting in the 20's year after year, I find it funny how the one time he is in the teens, he blows it with a wasted player who won't be on this team too much longer....

I know he drafted Emmerton when he couda had Lucic. Lucic nis the exact type of forward we have needed for a long time. Maybe Kenny's losing it???

We're not as old as everyone thinks.

Holmstrom is gone. Nyquist and Smith are locks. Tatar has a pretty decent chance and I believe he is still waiver exempt so there's no need to rush him necessarily. If he's not up full time, he'll certainly be the first injury call up. Brunner isn't exactly a youngster, but he's still a fresh face to the team.

Like most, I was never wild about the Bert and Sammy signings, but really they aren't that bad. Sammy with 30 goals two years ago, Bert's physical presence, etc. they are pretty decent for the next season or so. Babcock has put both of them on the 3rd line or lower before, so if they aren't performing, or if others are exceeding expectations there's no reason to think Bert and Sammy are locks for the top 6. I think Nyquist and Brunner will certainly get looks on the top two lines.

Then after this year, more FAs that could definitely be leaving Detroit.

Bert's physical presence just isn't there far too often.
I think he is either afraid of getting hurt and/or hurting someone again

#18 Crymson

Crymson

    Ninjelephant

  • Gold Booster
  • 11,032 posts
  • Location:Denver, CO, USA

Posted 12 December 2012 - 02:20 AM

I know he drafted Emmerton when he couda had Lucic. Lucic nis the exact type of forward we have needed for a long time. Maybe Kenny's losing it???


Emmerton was one of the highest-ranked North American prospects in that draft and was still available in the second round. Lucic was not especially well-known. 30 teams passed on him in the 1st round, and then another 19 in the second. Everyone loves hindsight.

There are plenty of big, strong hockey players who have failed to cut it in the NHL.

Ya, why should the Wings draft a TJ Oshie (#24) Matt Niskanen (#28) Steve Downie (#29) James Neal (#33) Marc Edourad Vlasic (#35) Paul Stastny (#44) when Jakub Kindl (#19) is available...Kenny seemed to do very well this last draft, but he blew it in 2005...God forbid he ever finds himself with a top 5 pick.


Again, everyone loves hindsight. You're forgetting that every single team passed on Neal, Vlasic, and Stastny at least once.

We also have Emmerton, Mursak, and Eaves in the mix. I wouldn't think Nyquist, Tatar, or Brunner would have a sure roster spot, considering they are all waiver exempt and we won't have a real training camp. They may have to wait for next year, or at least an injury to create an opening.

Of course, we may not have hockey until next year anyway...


Eaves has no ETA on his return yet, which means it's probably awhile away. Emmerton is 100% expendable.

Brunner will start in the NHL. This has been clear since he signed.

#19 LeftWinger

LeftWinger

    42 years in Detroit! Time to spend the rest in paradise!

  • Silver Booster
  • 8,626 posts
  • Location:HART - MI

Posted 12 December 2012 - 10:26 AM

Again, everyone loves hindsight. You're forgetting that every single team passed on Neal, Vlasic, and Stastny at least once.




Yes, I know, its like that in any draft year...

Eaves has no ETA on his return yet, which means it's probably awhile away. Emmerton is 100% expendable.

Brunner will start in the NHL. This has been clear since he signed.


The way I see it, BOTH Emmy and Mursak are the expendable ones...If Eaves return is doubtful, one of those two have a bit more time here than they should. I believe in the end Miller and Eaves will be here over those two...

Don't Be Jealous, But I Live Here...

www.thinkdunes.com

 

Aww You Mad Bro? Are You Butt Hurt?


#20 Crymson

Crymson

    Ninjelephant

  • Gold Booster
  • 11,032 posts
  • Location:Denver, CO, USA

Posted 12 December 2012 - 01:11 PM

Yes, I know, its like that in any draft year...


Correct. No GM is perfect, Holland included. However, Holland has done what no other GM in the league has: he found two superstars in the late rounds of the draft, in addition to finding numerous good players in the early and middle drafts also. Bear in mind that he was also playing a big part in drafting while he was assistant GM.

It's not easy to keep a team loaded like this without top-ten draft picks. The Wings are the only team over the past 20 years to never have a pick in the top ten. It's one of the prices of consistent success.

The way I see it, BOTH Emmy and Mursak are the expendable ones...If Eaves return is doubtful, one of those two have a bit more time here than they should. I believe in the end Miller and Eaves will be here over those two...


I agree completely. That said, Emmerton is useless in almost every way. Mursak is at least remarkable in his skating and plays with passion; he's got potential. Emmerton, meanwhile, does almost nothing on the ice. He's not even good at playing defense.





Similar Topics Collapse

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users