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Babcock: Is he the right guy going forward?


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#61 The Axe

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 02:11 PM

Why would he construct a line of Nyquist Filppula Abdelkader? Two perimeter playmakers/passers and a guy who belongs on the 4th line, rediculous.


Babs benches the 3rd and 4th lines when things go wrong and we get down. Im not a fan of this. Im mor a fan of sitting the grinder (Abdelkader) on the 3rd line and fighter (Tootoo) on the 4th line and double shifting your 2 best guys (Zetts, Dats). Noone is saying "why is Z playing so much?" right now. People are wondering why Cleary is playing so much.

#62 clutchngrab

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 03:15 AM

Wondering if any of you are thinking the emperor might not actually have any clothes.  Let the flaming begin!


Are you kidding? Block you? And miss watching you stumble around the forum looking for an argument like a dog sniffing butts? It would be like turning off a bad episode of Jerry Springer. You know you shouldn't be watching, but you just... can't... help... it...

#63 FlashyG

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 03:31 AM

I think Babcock is one of, if not the best coach in the league but no matter how good you are, after a while your messages no longer hit home with your players. Bowman never stayed in one place too long for this reason, Hitchcock is another that has tremendous success in the short term with teams but seems to lose the room after a season or 2.

 

Babcock has been in charge for a long time, with very little turnover on the roster. So its not that surprising when rumors come out that more and more players don't like him or his style of coaching/playing the game. He clearly has a different style of hockey in mind than our management does and that style doesn't fit well with our best players either. It's led to us playing a hybrid style between puck possession and north south hockey that works some nights and doesn't on others. 

 

I think he has this season and next max coaching the Wings, its unlikely he'll be signed to a new deal and I don't see him being in charge as a lame-duck coach in the final year of his contract, so barring a Stanley Cup run, I think we're in the tail end of Babcock's tenure in Detroit.



#64 Johnz96

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 07:56 AM

He is not the right guy.

He was fortunate to have 3 of the 10 best hockey players in the world on his team. The Ducks made it to the SCF because of Giguere and his over-sized equipment.

Everyone thought Marc Crawford was a good coach until he lost all his great players



#65 Nev

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 08:02 AM

He is not the right guy.

He was fortunate to have 3 of the 10 best hockey players in the world on his team. The Ducks made it to the SCF because of Giguere and his over-sized equipment.

Everyone thought Marc Crawford was a good coach until he lost all his great players

 

By your line of reasoning Bowman was only a great coach because of all his great players - Montreal were only good because they had Gainey and Lafleur and Robinson and Shutt and Lemaire and Dryden.  And the Pens, they only won the cup with Bowman because they had Lemiuex and Jagr and Francis and Coffey.  And Bowman's Wings?  Well, they had Lidstrom and Yzerman and Shanahan and Murphy and Larionov and Konstantinov and Fetisov, right?

 

I agree with the poster above - I wonder if he's simply been here too long, and he and Holland aren't on the same page anymore.


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#66 Johnz96

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 08:21 AM

By your line of reasoning Bowman was only a great coach because of all his great players - Montreal were only good because they had Gainey and Lafleur and Robinson and Shutt and Lemaire and Dryden.  And the Pens, they only won the cup with Bowman because they had Lemiuex and Jagr and Francis and Coffey.  And Bowman's Wings?  Well, they had Lidstrom and Yzerman and Shanahan and Murphy and Larionov and Konstantinov and Fetisov, right?

 

I agree with the poster above - I wonder if he's simply been here too long, and he and Holland aren't on the same page anymore.

I never said that about Bowman.

I have always questioned Babcock's allotment of ice-time.

He lost us the Cup in 09 by giving  an obviously ineffective(he was injured, I thought perhaps, he was being a double agent for the Pens) Hossa first-line ice-time, while many better healthy choices were squandered struggling to see the ice.

In  blowouts, he continues to play Datsyuk, Zetterberg and Lidstrom late in games, risking injury for nothing and not taking advantage of being able to give guys that normally don't get much ice-time,more t7me for evaluation and experience for them.

Playing Abby and Cleary on the top 2 lines for so long when they are obviously ineffective is assinnine (intentional misspelling).

Keeping one of your team's best performer's on the bottom 6 and demoting him to the minors is idiotic.

Constantly Implying that the team isn't as good as it used to be is negative for morale and is just wrong from a coach



#67 clutchngrab

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 05:32 PM


I'm curious what kind of coaching is required to coach team Canada to a Gold Medal.  I would say very little.  He's also lost 2 game 7s in the SC finals.
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#68 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 06:24 PM

I'm curious what kind of coaching is required to coach team Canada to a Gold Medal.  I would say very little.  He's also lost 2 game 7s in the SC finals.

Just to be clear, you're holding it against Babcock that now in his 10th year as an NHL coach, he's made it to game 7 of the Stanley Cup finals twice and won it once?

Most coaches don't have that "blemish" on their resume because they don't make it to the Cup Finals three times.

#69 Vladifan

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 07:05 PM

Until there's a better coach available , isn't this subject academic?   There IS no one better out there.  


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#70 Z Winged Dangler

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 08:00 PM

Until there's a better coach available , isn't this subject academic?   There IS no one better out there.  

That's definitely the problem is that there isn't a better coach out there.  Ours is just being stubborn as all hell.  I think the fact that he left the square wheel line together so long just has a lot of people very pissed.  And if Dats leaves after next season, it will be remembered for a long time and a lot of people may blame Babcock for not giving Datsyuk the tools he deserved to be the best player he could be.


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#71 Vladifan

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 11:11 PM

That's definitely the problem is that there isn't a better coach out there.  Ours is just being stubborn as all hell.  I think the fact that he left the square wheel line together so long just has a lot of people very pissed.  And if Dats leaves after next season, it will be remembered for a long time and a lot of people may blame Babcock for not giving Datsyuk the tools he deserved to be the best player he could be.

 Agreed.  I don't know why he won't try different combinations.  And in my heart I knew he wouldn't play Nyquist with Datsyuk tonight, but I wanted to be wrong.  If Datsyuk goes, Babcock will go.  Hope he realizes that before it's too late for both of them.


"He even ate with women who at that time were accorded the same status as the family donkey. Are we willing to break bread with, say, child sex slaves, transgender teens and undocumented workers? Because when Jesus comes back to Earth, that's where he'll be hanging."
You can easily judge the character of a man by how he treats those who can do nothing for him.

 
 
 


#72 pondrocket

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 11:28 PM

This thread is rediculous!  Babcock is what is keeping this team as competative as they are.  THIS is what happens when Big E is one of your top pairing D Men & Big E & Quincy together consume 7 million.  Is Holland the right GM going forward?  That is the question Devilano & Mr. I better be asking.  He had years to plan for this & he DID NOT!  This is what happens when your forwarwards have to play D & don't have the benefit of of being committed forwards. 



#73 Red Crazy

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 11:39 PM

This thread is rediculous!  Babcock is what is keeping this team as competative as they are.  THIS is what happens when Big E is one of your top pairing D Men & Big E & Quincy together consume 7 million.  Is Holland the right GM going forward?  That is the question Devilano & Mr. I better be asking.  He had years to plan for this & he DID NOT!  This is what happens when your forwarwards have to play D & don't have the benefit of of being committed forwards. 

Agreed 110%. I don't agree with what Babs puts out on the ice but Holland is to blame for the s***ty contracts and lack of talent. Holland was betting on the big fish last year Parise and Suter and missed all the horses that would have worked well. Then he panicked and signed scrubs for not one but two freeking years. 



#74 wings_fanatic

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 11:51 PM

Agreed 110%. I don't agree with what Babs puts out on the ice but Holland is to blame for the s***ty contracts and lack of talent. Holland was betting on the big fish last year Parise and Suter and missed all the horses that would have worked well. Then he panicked and signed scrubs for not one but two freeking years. 

 You spelled freaking wrong :) 

 

And honestly, right now I would say it is more of Babcock's fault than Kenny's. Kenny did all he could... if Parise did not want to sign here, he did not want to sign here.  Fact is, tonight we would have had a much better chance to win the game had ABDELKATOR not been on Pavel's wing AGAIN!!! Babcock uses the same lines that do not produce. If that does not change, he needs to go.



#75 FlashyG

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 11:56 PM

Agreed 110%. I don't agree with what Babs puts out on the ice but Holland is to blame for the s***ty contracts and lack of talent. Holland was betting on the big fish last year Parise and Suter and missed all the horses that would have worked well. Then he panicked and signed scrubs for not one but two freeking years. 

 

There is a major difference of opinion between management and the coaching staff about what style of hockey the team should be playing. Holland prefers skilled players that are better in a puck possession style of hockey while Babcock prefers grinders who dump and chase and clear their zone off the glass and out.

 

The problem is that our best players (Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Franzen, Flip, Kronwall and Brunner) are all players the thrive in Holland's style but not in Babcocks. Then in our prospect pool you have a large contingent of Holland style players as well (Tatar, Nyquist, Sproul, Jurco, Jarnkrok, Frk and Pulkinnen) 

 

For a while we played a hybrid style where the bottom 6 played Babcock's style and the top 6 were free to play their style but lately it seems that Babcock even has them playing defence first off the glass and out hockey.

 

Its not only painfully boring to watch but it hasn't been effective either. Its time he moved on to a roster that is more suited to his style, and its time the Wings brought in a coach whose style matches up with the talent the Wings have.

 

You can bet their first move would be putting Cleary and Abdelkader on the 4th line or in the pressbox while increasing the ice-time of skilled rookies like Tatar and Nyquist.



#76 BuckeyeWingsfan80

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 12:01 AM

I don't think you can really pin a lack of depth or high-level talent on Babcock.  He's trying to win with what he has....and it's not like he has Lidstrom/Hossa/Rafalski/Stuart/Hudler/Maltby/Holmstrom and Draper to roll out there anymore.


Don't take it from fans on LGW, take it from his peers. NHL players have spoken and they think Tootoo is the dirtiest player in the league.

Get a clue already.

#77 FlashyG

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 12:14 AM

I don't think you can really pin a lack of depth or high-level talent on Babcock.  He's trying to win with what he has....and it's not like he has Lidstrom/Hossa/Rafalski/Stuart/Hudler/Maltby/Holmstrom and Draper to roll out there anymore.

 

If Babcock was giving ice-time based on players actual play this season and we were continuing to lose I'd agree, but the fact is that he will not give ice-time to rookies that don't play his style of hockey.

 

Tatar was playing great out there and was limited to less than 10 minutes a night, Nyquist was brought up for tonights game to play in the top 6 accoriding to Holland and he wasn't given a single shift there by Babs, yet Abdelkader has played like 20 games up there despite having only 2 pts all season.

 

Babcock is a great coach but he's a terrible fit for the Wings best players and its time to move on. Unless you'd rather keep him and blow up the roster for guys better suited to his style of play.



#78 Wingsfan72

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 01:26 AM

I miss the Babcock that got pissed at Holland for not going after Brent Burns back before he was traded to the Sharks.  Where's that guy?  That Babcock would have a few things to say about our currently unaddressed needs.

 

Honestly, I'm wondering if he's gotten a little complacent because he basically could do little to no wrong in regard to coaching with the lineup he's had over the years.  Not to mention the great assistant coaches he used to have by his side.  

 

I have faith in him, but the rest of this season and beginning of next season should really be make or break time for him and I really hope he steps up o the plate.  This year has been kind of funky because of the lockout, not that I am blaming everything on that, but we have several new faces in the roster and behind the bench and there wasn't really a lot of time to figure out which players molded.  I think that's why Babs has been messing with the lines (also because of injuries, obviously).

 

My big problem with him is he preaches "earn your place on this team", yet he rewards underachievers top-six play time.  Also, he apparently shares Hollands beliefs with younger players in not allowing them to play bigger roles.  Tatar is a perfect example.  He brings it every time he's on the ice.  He could and should be playing on our second line.  Cleary should be in the bottom six, Tatar should be working with Pav, simple as that.

 

I honestly don't know what he is thinking with the Abs-Pav-Cleary line.  It's very obviously not productive and it is very obviously frustrating Pav.

 

EDIT:  I have not seen the past three games, I didn't realize Franzen is on Pavs line now... 


Edited by Wingsfan72, 14 March 2013 - 01:48 AM.



 
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#79 Nev

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 01:54 AM

I never said that about Bowman.

I have always questioned Babcock's allotment of ice-time.

He lost us the Cup in 09 by giving  an obviously ineffective(he was injured, I thought perhaps, he was being a double agent for the Pens) Hossa first-line ice-time, while many better healthy choices were squandered struggling to see the ice.

 

1) But surely the same line of reasoning applies to Bowman as to Babcock?  And Mike agress with you btw - two of his favourite mantras for winning in the playoffs are "your best players gotta be your best players" and "you gotta be healthy"

 

2)  Everyone was injured in 2009.  Dats, Hossa, Cleary, Rafalski, Lidstrom, Homer...


"If I can be totally honest, it's not a lot of guys you get impressed by. Actually, it's no one else but him. From the bench, to see what move he makes -- you're like, 'I wish I could do that.' Sometimes you sit on the bench and just think, 'wow,' and you look over to the other bench and they sit there and shake their heads, too. He has great, great skills. I'm probably not going to play with another player who has the kind of skills he has." Mikael Samuelsson on Pavel Datsyuk

#80 RyanBarnes!

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 03:06 AM


Babs benches the 3rd and 4th lines when things go wrong and we get down. Im not a fan of this. Im mor a fan of sitting the grinder (Abdelkader) on the 3rd line and fighter (Tootoo) on the 4th line and double shifting your 2 best guys (Zetts, Dats). Noone is saying "why is Z playing so much?" right now. People are wondering why Cleary is playing so much.

i'm certainly wondering why Z has not scored in 18 games, he doesn't have Datsyuk's excuse of underskilled linemates.
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