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Perry hit. Thoughts?


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#21 rrasco

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 10:06 AM

What I don't understand is:

 

Exhibit A: Guy finishes check, no injury, typically = praised for finishing check.

Exhibit B: Guy finishes check, injury occurs, typically = dirty hit.

 

Perry will only get a suspension (for a head hit, they could still suspend him for something else if they want) if BOTH of these criteria are met:

 

1: Principal point of contact is head

2: Targeting of the head

 

I don't believe Perry targeted his head.  If Zucker had his head up, quit looking at his pass, and paid attention to who was around him, he would have taken that hit and there would have been no call.  Perry could have let up a little, but I really don't think he expected that to be the outcome of that hit.


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#22 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 10:06 AM

Zucker was admiring his pass but Perry's hit looks late, and he sort of throws his upper body up to try and catch more of him, which ends up just contacting more of his head. 

 

Aside from looking late, that's a tough angle to throw a hit.  Given the distance Zucker was from the boards, there's little chance this hit would end well.  If Perry had hit more of his body he likely would've sent Zucker flying head first into the boards.  

 

I don't think it was a malicious elbow or anything but it was a bad decision by Perry. 



#23 F.Michael

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 10:25 AM

The only purpose of that hit was to hurt the guy. And Perry did hit him in the head. I do not think height difference excuses it one bit.

 

Zucker needs to learn that even without the puck you have to pay attention for his own safety, but it does not mean that the hit was legal.

Well from my point of view (mind you I'm an old-school knuckle dragger) - most hits are not only intended to seperate the player from the puck, but to cause discomfort, and/or outright pain - although not always meaning to cause injury.

 

I'm of the opinion that height has everything to do with this hit; Perry being the taller of the 2 players involved came at him with little to no bend in his knees where as Zucker had his body turned/twisted, and was leaning more forward when the 2 collided - thus increasing the chance of Zucker's head taking a significant portion of the hit delivered by Perry.



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#24 Opie

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 10:30 AM

^ LOL Chris Pronger theory of height as it relates to cleanliness of hits????

 

Not Perry's fault, what is he supposed to do, control his body to hit where it is legal.

 

The league needs to stop punishing taller players like Perry and instead institute a mandatory height requirement!

 

/sarcasm


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#25 Crymson

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 11:19 AM

Hit was fine the timing was fine. The only thing questionable was arm being up but he has a severe height advantage didn't look intentional. General rule is you're allowed three steps to hit someone after they get rid of puck. Sometimes refs shorten it up sometimes lengthen it.

 

That is most certainly NOT the general rule. What you are referring to is the rule for charging, which stipulates that a player cannot take more than three strides into any hit.



This barely got one game suspension for reference:

 

As Shanahan has said openly, suspensions in the playoffs will always be short.



Routine suspensions, that is. Not Torres-level affairs.



#26 Red Crazy

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 11:30 AM

Perry hit him in the head. Intentional or not he was injured on the play and in the NHL you will be suspended for these types of hits. 1 game maybe 2 if Shanny is bitchy 



#27 Euro_Twins

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 11:33 AM

^ LOL Chris Pronger theory of height as it relates to cleanliness of hits????

 

Not Perry's fault, what is he supposed to do, control his body to hit where it is legal.

 

The league needs to stop punishing taller players like Perry and instead institute a mandatory height requirement!

 

/sarcasm

 

how did you get that from what he wrote?

 

Perry was upright and Zucker had his knees bent and was half turned, so instead of it being a 4 inch difference it becomes more like 6-8 inches, thereby making a head hit much more likely. He didn't defend the hit, and he never said it's "not perrys fault". He stated the facts of the hit, and that's all they are is the facts, yes he possibly could have let up and maybe avoided hitting him, but that was not what he was debating... you just wanted a reason to argue.



#28 rrasco

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 11:41 AM

Perry hit him in the head. Intentional or not he was injured on the play and in the NHL you will be suspended for these types of hits. 1 game maybe 2 if Shanny is bitchy 

 

Actually it does matter.  The head has to be targeted as well as be the principal point of contact, to suspend for a head-hit.


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#29 Red Crazy

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 11:48 AM

Actually it does matter.  The head has to be targeted as well as be the principal point of contact, to suspend for a head-hit.

Yep that's why I said Perry hit him in the head. I never said I agreed or not just said that he will likely be suspended.



#30 rrasco

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 11:55 AM

Yep that's why I said Perry hit him in the head. I never said I agreed or not just said that he will likely be suspended.

 

And I am saying I don't think it necessarily will be, because you not only have to make contact with the head (principal point), but you also have to target the head.  I don't believe the head was targeted.  He could get suspended for interference though, that was actually the call on the play, not an illegal check to the head.


Edited by rrasco, 13 March 2013 - 11:56 AM.

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MONEY ON THE BOARD: $10/Kronwalling (1), $1/goal by: Nyquist, Tatar, Jurco, Sheahan, disney.com (1), Andersson, Dekeyser, Pulkinnen, Ouellet, or Sproul.  2X MULTIPLIER: disney.com.  CONSOLATION PRIZE: $5/goal by: Datsyuk (3), $3/goal by: Z (1). MOTB TOTAL: $30


#31 Opie

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 12:03 PM

Well the statement that said:

I'm of the opinion that height has everything to do with this hit; Perry being the taller of the 2 players involved came at him with little to no bend in his knees where as Zucker had his body turned/twisted, and was leaning more forward when the 2 collided - thus increasing the chance of Zucker's head taking a significant portion of the hit delivered by Perry.

 

Basically stating that the height differential is the reason the hit was so violent, which the ducks have used before (Pronger).

Ignoring the fact that Perry could have let up, and should have let up. I disagree that Height has everything to do with this hit and would say that height has 25% and Corey Perry had 75% to do with it!

 

Why is Perry not responsible for reacting to Zucker's position, why doesn't he bend down to hit him in the shoulders?

 

Oh right the Pronger theory on height as it relates to cleanliness of hits.

 

This is no longer the NHL of Scott Stevens putting Kariya's lights out, those are the types of hits the league is trying to get rid of.

 

And yes he made a very good point, the intent of most hits is not to just separate the puck, but send a message, and make the player think before he makes plays.

 

This hit is very similar imo to Cooke on Savard, player passes puck, player watches pass, another player sees this player in a vulnerable position and takes advantage of it.

 

*(tangent: Once I would like to see a guy in that position scream "GOTCHA!" or "BOOO!" and see the other player crap their pants, but still be able to skate off of the ice and remember what city he is in!)*


As opposed to the Umberger hit posted earlier in which the player was skating with the puck and his head down and ate a shoulder to the chest, then folded up like a cheap suitcase and knocked himself out on Campbelll's shoulder pads.(BTW that clip is so old and so before the crackdown of hitting both players have played multiple years on multiple other teams, the league has changed since 2006, especially when it comes to hits).

 

Also, Perry hit from the blindside, whether or not that is because Zucker is looking is irrelevant, the reason it is his blindside is because he is not looking that way. This was not a Kronwalling where Perry hit Zucker right on the logo and the follow through went to the head.

 

This was blindside and to the head.

 

Perry was in a position where he really only had three options, go body on body and probably board Zucker, level him right in the head, or don't hit him.

 

There is no way Perry is the type of player to pull away on that hit, that is why so many fans like his playing style. 

 

Look at the debate we are having, blaming Zucker for watching his pass, he put himself in a vulnerable position, he is too low, etc...

 

But where and when do we put blame on the player hitting?

 

Sure F.Micheal did not say whose fault it was, Zucker or Perry, instead he blamed the height of the two players


"The more I know about people - the better I like my dog." - Mark Twain

"A wise man once told me, ‘Don’t argue with fools. Cause people from a distance can’t tell who is who'." Jay Z, Takeover

"When I was looking for a captain, I wanted a guy with the Red Wings crest tattooed on his chest," said former Detroit coach Jacques Demers, who named Yzerman captain in 1986. "Steve Yzerman was that guy."

“Told him if he wasn't ultra-competitive he couldn't come here. If he didn't bring it every day he couldn't come here, because he was going to hate it if he didn't, dislike the coach and dislike playing here.
“It's real straightforward. If you don't do it right, you're not happy here." Babcock

#32 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 12:04 PM

And I am saying I don't think it necessarily will be, because you not only have to make contact with the head (principal point), but you also have to target the head.  I don't believe the head was targeted.  He could get suspended for interference though, that was actually the call on the play, not an illegal check to the head.

That's where it gets weird with the league.  

 

By their definition of "targeted" it doesn't have to mean the the player is clearly trying to hit a guy in the head.  There were cases where because of what they deemed was a recklessly thrown hit by the player, the head was essentially targeted.  Unintentional but reckless, so still targeted.  

 

Here's the NHL explanation video.  Talk of the hits starts about 3 mins in.  They show examples of illegal and legal hits to the head. 

 



#33 F.Michael

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 12:15 PM

Sure F.Micheal did not say whose fault it was, Zucker or Perry, instead he blamed the height of the two players

Body positioning is important as well; Zucker leaning forward with his head turned to look back at his pass makes him alot more vulnerable to being on the receiving end of a head injury.

 

Even though Perry made the decision to finish the check - he is responsible for the outcome - be it an injury or not.

 

Boston Bruins forward Brad Marchand is a wily little ****; Zucker might learn a thing, or two from him...

 

 


Edited by F.Michael, 13 March 2013 - 12:18 PM.


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#34 Opie

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 12:27 PM

Body positioning is important as well; Zucker leaning forward with his head turned to look back at his pass makes him alot more vulnerable to being on the receiving end of a head injury.

 

Even though Perry made the decision to finish the check - he is responsible for the outcome - be it an injury or not.

 

Boston Bruins forward Brad Marchand is a wily little ****; Zucker might learn a thing, or two from him...

 

 

 

Marchand is extremely frustrating to watch on a regular basis.

 

He is in beast mode often enough, that when he goes into D-Bag mode it is enough to hate him.

The local media (Mike Felger in particular) and a lot of fans loves this guy whether he be boarding people or scoring a hat trick, and I think it went to his head. it is close to the same love they gave PJ Stock, the Scalabrine treatment as I like to call it. Only Marchand has the skills and abilities to be a top 6, those two were roster fillers.

 

He can be the biggest prick sometimes, and other times you think man they have some real young talent Bergeroen, Lucic, Seguin, Rask, and this guy. (Not to mention Hamilton looks to be a legit #1- #2 dman.)


"The more I know about people - the better I like my dog." - Mark Twain

"A wise man once told me, ‘Don’t argue with fools. Cause people from a distance can’t tell who is who'." Jay Z, Takeover

"When I was looking for a captain, I wanted a guy with the Red Wings crest tattooed on his chest," said former Detroit coach Jacques Demers, who named Yzerman captain in 1986. "Steve Yzerman was that guy."

“Told him if he wasn't ultra-competitive he couldn't come here. If he didn't bring it every day he couldn't come here, because he was going to hate it if he didn't, dislike the coach and dislike playing here.
“It's real straightforward. If you don't do it right, you're not happy here." Babcock

#35 cusimano_brothers

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 12:27 PM

Todays' officiating fun-fact, regarding Jean Hebert, #43:

 

It was only six years ago, when Jean Hebert was working his job as a prison guard in Dorchester for Correctional Serviceof Canada, that he was being encouraged to give hockey officiating a try on the side.

 

 

Time to wake up Shanahan; he's itching to use somebody as an example.


"Mess up tomorrow, don't mess up now".

- Harry James Benson, CBE.


#36 F.Michael

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 12:30 PM

Marchand is extremely frustrating to watch on a regular basis.

 

He is in beast mode often enough, that when he goes into D-Bag mode it is enough to hate him.

The local media (Mike Felger in particular) and a lot of fans loves this guy whether he be boarding people or scoring a hat trick, and I think it went to his head. it is close to the same love they gave PJ Stock, the Scalabrine treatment as I like to call it. Only Marchand has the skills and abilities to be a top 6, those two were roster fillers.

 

He can be the biggest prick sometimes, and other times you think man they have some real young talent Bergeroen, Lucic, Seguin, Rask, and this guy. (Not to mention Hamilton looks to be a legit #1- #2 dman.)

I like Marchand...I like the Bruins...Reminds me of the Red Wings circa late 90's.



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#37 rrasco

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 12:38 PM

That's where it gets weird with the league.  

 

By their definition of "targeted" it doesn't have to mean the the player is clearly trying to hit a guy in the head.  There were cases where because of what they deemed was a recklessly thrown hit by the player, the head was essentially targeted.  Unintentional but reckless, so still targeted.  

 

Here's the NHL explanation video.  Talk of the hits starts about 3 mins in.  They show examples of illegal and legal hits to the head.

 

Right.  Targeting can be intentional, or unintentional, whereas it is deemed reckless targeting of the head.  Either way, it has to be deemed targeting.  I'm not sure how they will rule on it in this case.


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MONEY ON THE BOARD: $10/Kronwalling (1), $1/goal by: Nyquist, Tatar, Jurco, Sheahan, disney.com (1), Andersson, Dekeyser, Pulkinnen, Ouellet, or Sproul.  2X MULTIPLIER: disney.com.  CONSOLATION PRIZE: $5/goal by: Datsyuk (3), $3/goal by: Z (1). MOTB TOTAL: $30


#38 Opie

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 12:49 PM

Perry's thoughts, on hit!

 

“I was committed to the hit,” Perry said Tuesday night after getting tossed for drilling Jason Zucker in the Anaheim Ducks’ 2-1 victory over the Minnesota Wild. “It’s one of those things. I didn’t change my path of direction. I was committed. I tried to let up. It’s hard. It happens so fast. It’s unfortunate.”

 

He explodes through that hit, there is no let up there that is for sure!

 

Full story on Puckdaddy:

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-puck-daddy/corey-perry-explains-ejection-vs-wild-don-t-045850879--nhl.html


"The more I know about people - the better I like my dog." - Mark Twain

"A wise man once told me, ‘Don’t argue with fools. Cause people from a distance can’t tell who is who'." Jay Z, Takeover

"When I was looking for a captain, I wanted a guy with the Red Wings crest tattooed on his chest," said former Detroit coach Jacques Demers, who named Yzerman captain in 1986. "Steve Yzerman was that guy."

“Told him if he wasn't ultra-competitive he couldn't come here. If he didn't bring it every day he couldn't come here, because he was going to hate it if he didn't, dislike the coach and dislike playing here.
“It's real straightforward. If you don't do it right, you're not happy here." Babcock

#39 wingslogo19

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 12:50 PM

It looked a bit late


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#40 Opie

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 12:51 PM

What I don't understand is:

 

Exhibit A: Guy finishes check, no injury, typically = praised for finishing check.

Exhibit B: Guy finishes check, injury occurs, typically = dirty hit.

 

Perry will only get a suspension (for a head hit, they could still suspend him for something else if they want) if BOTH of these criteria are met:

 

1: Principal point of contact is head

2: Targeting of the head

 

I don't believe Perry targeted his head.  If Zucker had his head up, quit looking at his pass, and paid attention to who was around him, he would have taken that hit and there would have been no call.  Perry could have let up a little, but I really don't think he expected that to be the outcome of that hit.

 

Interesting point in the puckdaddy article that reflects this:

 

“The referee said he hit him a little late,” said Ducks coach Bruce Boudreau. “When he hits him a little late and a guy’s injured, then it’s a game misconduct, I guess, by rule. That was his explanation to me, and I accepted it.”


"The more I know about people - the better I like my dog." - Mark Twain

"A wise man once told me, ‘Don’t argue with fools. Cause people from a distance can’t tell who is who'." Jay Z, Takeover

"When I was looking for a captain, I wanted a guy with the Red Wings crest tattooed on his chest," said former Detroit coach Jacques Demers, who named Yzerman captain in 1986. "Steve Yzerman was that guy."

“Told him if he wasn't ultra-competitive he couldn't come here. If he didn't bring it every day he couldn't come here, because he was going to hate it if he didn't, dislike the coach and dislike playing here.
“It's real straightforward. If you don't do it right, you're not happy here." Babcock





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