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kentuckywing

Pasha's Legacy

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I've thought about this for some time, and it may be controversial. IF this may be the last year we have Pavel, we should not hold it against him. His jersey should be in the rafters. He would be one of the greats in any era. 22 straight years wouldn't be possible without him.

Kentucky born, parents from Detroit. Go Wings.

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He'll be here next year; if he wants to retire in the KHL like he has previously stated doesn't he have to finish his contract with the wings before he can sign in russia due to the agreement that was signed between the leagues?

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Ya the speculation about him leaving isn't until after next season.

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I've thought about this for some time, and it may be controversial. IF this may be the last year we have Pavel, we should not hold it against him. His jersey should be in the rafters. He would be one of the greats in any era. 22 straight years wouldn't be possible without him.

Kentucky born, parents from Detroit. Go Wings.

If Datsyuk gets his jersey retired, then Fedorov is a no brainer. Because we wouldn't be talking about 22 straight years, or even anywhere close to that if not for Fedorov...we also wouldn't be talking 3 Cups in 6 years without Fedorov...

I know this isn't a debate over Feds/Dats, but I love how folks (and no offense to the OP) bend over backwards to say how much Dats deserves his jersey in the rafters and its ok for him to want to go play somewhere he wants to enjoy his life outside of hockey, yet when it comes to Fedorov and how he is at or near the top of every statistical category for the Red Wings, has won a Hart Trophy and also wanted to go play somewhere he would enjoy his life outside of hockey better, he gets boo'd and shunned and doesn't deserve the same recognition....

I agree with your assessment of Datsyuk, don't get me wrong. I say put them both in the rafters, they have both earned it...but you cannot put Dats up without Feds...

Nev, zetterbrunner, Marxx71 and 1 other like this

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^ I think it was how the whole Ducks signing went down...people may feel the same way towards Dats if he were to sign a contract with Chicago

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19 and 5 are the only two going to the rafters from this era. 91 is not going up. If 13 and 40 want to go up they are going to have to bring at least two or more cups home to solidify their legacies outside of all the talented players they played with early in their careers, including 91.

Opie likes this

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19 and 5 are the only two going to the rafters from this era. 91 is not going up. If 13 and 40 want to go up they are going to have to bring at least two or more cups home to solidify their legacies outside of all the talented players they played with early in their careers, including 91.

As if cup wins are the only criteria to getting your jersey retired. :P

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As if cup wins are the only criteria to getting your jersey retired. :P

Of course not, otherwise we'd be putting up 18, 33, and 96 as well. There are other criteria, but one of them is coming from a successful era. According to precedent, none of the players in the rafters have won less than three cups with Detroit. Bringing home a couple more would put 13 and 40 into that category. And given the current lack of raw talent on our roster, those cups would have to be won on the backs of Datsyuk and Zetterberg. To accomplish this, they'd probably have to dedicate the rest of their careers to Detroit, which only helps their case. Then we can legitimately talk about retiring their numbers.

Edited by Seraph

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I love Datsyuk, but I'm not sure it's a good idea to retire his number. I don't.want to undercut his legacy, but if we retire him then we retire Zetterberg...then we retire every star we have.

Save the retiring numbers for those who came to embody the team and city, topped their positions, etc.

Datsyuk is the best player in the world, and has been for a few years, and is a fan favorite, but he isn't the only player to have a huge heart and carry this team on his back.

That said Is be happy if they did retire his number, just not sure its necessary.

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15 years with the team is a minimum requirement for rafter eligibility. Datsyuk doesn't have that yet.

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Don't retire his number, but do give him the credit he deserves...which is to say, Pavel Datsyuk is the best puckhandler in the history of the National Hockey League. Period. The only defenseman who could have conceivably defended him with any sort of regularity was on his team.

Wing Across The Pond and Ally like this

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Don't retire his number, but do give him the credit he deserves...which is to say, Pavel Datsyuk is the best puckhandler in the history of the National Hockey League. Period. The only defenseman who could have conceivably defended him with any sort of regularity was on his team.

Besides Boyd, of course. Right?

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Besides Boyd, of course. Right?

I would seriously give anything, and I mean anything, to have the power to alter the space/time continuum in such a way that Pavel could play one game against Bobby Orr. That way it would be obvious to everyone that Orr wasn't the greatest defenseman ever. In fact, he was hardly a defenseman at all. All the debate about Lidstrom vs. Orr would be over, because after one game of getting repeatedly turned inside out by Pavel, Orr would be relegated to Paul Coffey status where he belongs.

Anyway, back to Pavel...nobody can defend him...who wasn't named Lidstrom.

Edited by kipwinger

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I love Datsyuk, but I'm not sure it's a good idea to retire his number. I don't.want to undercut his legacy, but if we retire him then we retire Zetterberg...then we retire every star we have.

Datsyuk isn't like any other star though. He's such a unique player with an otherwordly level of skill that I have never seen in any other hockey player. He is Barry Sanders or Lionel Messi on skates. Combine that with a shy, almost introverted humilty, a wry, self-deprecating sense of humour, an elite defensive game, 4 Lady Byngs, 3 Selkes and 2 Stanley Cups. 6th on the all-time Red Wings scoring list.

Other players may come along and score more points and win more Cups, but none of them will do it with the jaw-dropping brilliance of Pav. Thank goodness this is the Youtube generation so we can show our kids and grandkids exactly what he used to do.

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While the speculation is fun, does not the decision come down to the owner's discretion? It would be hilariously sad if Mr. I said, "aw, hell with it," and just "un-retired" all numbers...

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If Datsyuk gets his jersey retired, then Fedorov is a no brainer. Because we wouldn't be talking about 22 straight years, or even anywhere close to that if not for Fedorov...we also wouldn't be talking 3 Cups in 6 years without Fedorov...

I know this isn't a debate over Feds/Dats, but I love how folks (and no offense to the OP) bend over backwards to say how much Dats deserves his jersey in the rafters and its ok for him to want to go play somewhere he wants to enjoy his life outside of hockey, yet when it comes to Fedorov and how he is at or near the top of every statistical category for the Red Wings, has won a Hart Trophy and also wanted to go play somewhere he would enjoy his life outside of hockey better, he gets boo'd and shunned and doesn't deserve the same recognition....

I agree with your assessment of Datsyuk, don't get me wrong. I say put them both in the rafters, they have both earned it...but you cannot put Dats up without Feds...

Federov was my favourite. Growing up I also had his jersey, hell I liked him more than stevie. The problem was he had all the talent in the world, but he got greedy, he just wanted his next big paycheck, and he wanted the "C" so #43 in my books would be retired before #91, so #13 is a no brainer in that regard

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Federov was my favourite. Growing up I also had his jersey, hell I liked him more than stevie. The problem was he had all the talent in the world, but he got greedy, he just wanted his next big paycheck, and he wanted the "C" so #43 in my books would be retired before #91, so #13 is a no brainer in that regard

:blink:

Lest we forget the great Gordie Howe left Detroit because he wanted more money too? As a matter of fact, the ONLY two guys in the rafters that played their entire career with Detroit is Delvecchio and Yzerman.

Fedorov left for the exact same money he was offered by the Wings...which was less than what he was offered earlier in the year when he asked to wait until after the season because of his divorce and agent change...he left Detroit for the same money and terms. Where would you rather be a millionaire, Detroit of Southern California? Obvious answer is obvious.... fact is though, Feds wanted to be here, but he wanted the 5 year deal that was offered before, but Holland yanked that one after Feds ask to wait until after the season...so he left.

Lets not turn this into a Feds debate, we all know how passionate we all are on both sides of the fence with him. But, if Pav gets #13 in the rafters so should Feds #91. Either both or neither...

IMO Pav deserves it as well as Feds...if Hank last 20+ years, then maybe #40 as well.

Edited by LeftWinger

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I would seriously give anything, and I mean anything, to have the power to alter the space/time continuum in such a way that Pavel could play one game against Bobby Orr. That way it would be obvious to everyone that Orr wasn't the greatest defenseman ever. In fact, he was hardly a defenseman at all. All the debate about Lidstrom vs. Orr would be over, because after one game of getting repeatedly turned inside out by Pavel, Orr would be relegated to Paul Coffey status where he belongs.

Anyway, back to Pavel...nobody can defend him...who wasn't named Lidstrom.

Either that or Kronwall and Ericsson are a minus 6 each after the Bruins score 8 goals and Orr assists on 4 of them and nets 2 himself!!!

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Of course not, otherwise we'd be putting up 18, 33, and 96 as well. There are other criteria, but one of them is coming from a successful era. According to precedent, none of the players in the rafters have won less than three cups with Detroit. Bringing home a couple more would put 13 and 40 into that category. And given the current lack of raw talent on our roster, those cups would have to be won on the backs of Datsyuk and Zetterberg. To accomplish this, they'd probably have to dedicate the rest of their careers to Detroit, which only helps their case. Then we can legitimately talk about retiring their numbers.

But come on, how cool would that be lol.

I also want to say that I think if 13 gets retired, that doesn't mean 40 should as well. I think 13 deserves it more than 40.

Ally likes this

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Either that or Kronwall and Ericsson are a minus 6 each after the Bruins score 8 goals and Orr assists on 4 of them and nets 2 himself!!!

Of course they would be. My argument was that Bobby Orr wasn't a good defenseman because he didn't play defense not because he couldn't score.

Edited by kipwinger

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I'm not going to argue the value of Datsyuk in regards to whether or not his jersey should be retired. The more interesting argument will be whether or not Datsyuk and Zetterberg are Hall of Famers in the end, and what the new definition of a Hall of Fame career is in the 21st century. Players don't put up the kind of obscene numbers as they did in the 80s, 90s, or early 2000s. The definition of what makes an elite player in the NHL has changed.

Assuming both players play to the extent of their ability until they can play no longer, lets say another 6 years or so, would we consider both Pavel and Hank Hall of Fame caliber? Neither will have lead the league in scoring. In all likelihood, neither will have lead to an incredible number of Cups as a primary player. In their time they will have been among, but never the best. On top of that, if Pavel leaves for the KHL after this contract, how does that effect his chances? We all recognize he is a once-in-a-lifetime talent as far as skill set goes, but how much is enough these days?

Are Datsyuk and Zetterberg's contributions to the sport in the end significant enough to get in when you consider players like Bure, Oates, and Mark Howe taking so long to get in, and players like Fedorov and Lindros still on the outside looking in?

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But come on, how cool would that be lol.

I also want to say that I think if 13 gets retired, that doesn't mean 40 should as well. I think 13 deserves it more than 40.

but 40 is the cap't

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I'm not going to argue the value of Datsyuk in regards to whether or not his jersey should be retired. The more interesting argument will be whether or not Datsyuk and Zetterberg are Hall of Famers in the end, and what the new definition of a Hall of Fame career is in the 21st century. Players don't put up the kind of obscene numbers as they did in the 80s, 90s, or early 2000s. The definition of what makes an elite player in the NHL has changed.

Assuming both players play to the extent of their ability until they can play no longer, lets say another 6 years or so, would we consider both Pavel and Hank Hall of Fame caliber? Neither will have lead the league in scoring. In all likelihood, neither will have lead to an incredible number of Cups as a primary player. In their time they will have been among, but never the best. On top of that, if Pavel leaves for the KHL after this contract, how does that effect his chances? We all recognize he is a once-in-a-lifetime talent as far as skill set goes, but how much is enough these days?

Are Datsyuk and Zetterberg's contributions to the sport in the end significant enough to get in when you consider players like Bure, Oates, and Mark Howe taking so long to get in, and players like Fedorov and Lindros still on the outside looking in?

Its an interesting discussion - I think right now Pav has a HOF resume, Hank not so much. Both are late bloomers, both played in a lower scoring era, and both have lost 1.5 seasons to Bettman, so they're not going to put up huge totals. Pav however has 7 trophies to Z's 1 and 2 cups to 1, as well as his unique, stand-out talent.

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Why would Datsyuk get his number retired, but Red Kelly and Norm Ullman haven't?

If he hits the 15 year minimum requirement, why wouldn't he?

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