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Let's Talk About Abdelkader, Plus Others


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#1 dropkickshanahans

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 08:43 PM

I had a couple more topics that I wanted to talk about that were questioned differently, but after looking at the other threads, and seeing my paragraphs grow to gcom length, I decided to shorten this to two-ish topics and maybe I'll ask those questions in the other threads.

 

I must say that I feel a little relieved. Not that the Wings have been knocked out-- I certainly wanted them to keep going. It's just that “OK, it's finally over, I can move on.” Sounds strange, but when you're emotionally invested after what they've done, upsetting the #2 seed and being so close to knocking off the #1 seed, I guess it messes with you. I shouldn't be that invested but hey, I've been following this team all my life so I can't help it. I can only imagine what the players went through.

 

Anyway, even though I didn't sleep well at all last night, I actually feel rather good today. The sun came out for a bit, and I already can't wait for next season. So let's talk about a few things if you'd like.

 

Is Justin Abdelkader a top 6 player?

 

Honestly, I think he is for the time being. I liked what I saw from him later in the season + playoffs when he got more comfortable. He's the closest this team has to Holmstrom, and I thought he filled that role better than Bertuzzi, Franzen and Cleary the more comfortable he got with it and I believe it's a role he relishes.

 

He still needs more work to be better at it since I think that line fizzled during the Blackhawks series, but I think Babcock should give that time to him again next season. He bangs and crashes, gets under the opponents skin, got better at puck retrieval, did a good job of creating room for Datsyuk and most importantly, went to the net very often and set good screens.

 

But to avoid more Shane Doan criticisms, he needs to work on this role more. Get better at deflections and be aware of loose pucks to knock in, and dare I say I think he could be the next Demolition Man. :ninja: It's hard to get players that can do what Homer did, and Abby's certainly not there yet but I think the best course of action for this team is for Abby to keep working at it.

 

Emmerton vs Ferraro, Miller vs Eaves, Callahan...

 

This probably doesn't matter much, but I wanted to hear opinions anyway. How do you feel about Miller compared to Eaves? They're both about the same, Eaves is paid more and is a right hander, but overall I think Miller was always the better 4th liner. Eaves always seems to get hurt, and is paid more. I only bring this up because I think the team will let Miller go, which I'll be sad if they do and being a 4th liner he's replaceable, but still.

 

I also wanted opinions on Emmerton vs Ferraro. I know Emmerton is liked by some, but I never thought he was that good, just a defensive 4th line plug. Could Ferraro be ready and beat him out when training camp comes? Or does Ferraro still need more ice time in GR? I think his speed, energy and offensive ability will be an upgrade over Emmerton's. Defense may be a wash, but I wouldn't know, I just assume Ferraro has worked on it over the last couple years, so there can't be that much of a difference right?

 

I also wanted to know more about Callahan for anyone that watches GRG. Will he be an NHLer some day? Reading about him over time he looks to be another Abdelkader/Maltby-type. Energy, hits, agitator, fights and a little bit of scoring. But I confess I don't watch much of the Griffins, so I haven't seen his progression or anyone else. I mainly read about our prospects. Could he possibly take Miller's spot after training camp if Miller is let go?

 

A Callahan, Ferraro, Eaves line would be great to watch.


Edited by dropkickshanahans, 30 May 2013 - 08:46 PM.


#2 Shaman

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 08:53 PM

Abdelkader doesn't deserve to be on the first or second line, he had 3 points in the playoffs, he was outplayed by the likes of injured Dan Cleary. He was a plug and an experiment, his season totals weren't out of his normal averages, and his playoffs were trash. 


Feuer und Wasser kommt nicht zusammen
Kann man nicht binden sind nicht verwandt
In Funken versunken steh ich in Flammen
und bin im Wasser verbrannt
Im Wasser verbrannt

#3 DeGraa55

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 09:03 PM

Get Horton and bickell for top two lines. Then he can go back to third line.

If only one then he be on second line.

#4 dropkickshanahans

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 09:06 PM

Abdelkader doesn't deserve to be on the first or second line, he had 3 points in the playoffs, he was outplayed by the likes of injured Dan Cleary. He was a plug and an experiment, his season totals weren't out of his normal averages, and his playoffs were trash. 

 

I disagree that his playoffs were trash. I thought he did very well for Datsyuk's line, and did a better job than anyone else at creating havoc in the crease. He's the only one that seemed to go to the net consistently and get his ass kicked for it, so he's doing something right. I think with more work he'll be better in that role and be a close replacement of Holmstrom... hopefully. He is a bonehead afterall, but we'll see if he gets close to Holmstrom's point totals if he stays up there.



#5 darkmanx

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 09:09 PM

Get Horton and bickell for top two lines. Then he can go back to third line.

If only one then he be on second line.

 

Would rather Clarkson. I think he would be amazing on Datsyuk's wing.



#6 Euro_Twins

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 09:35 PM

Abdelkader doesn't deserve to be on the first or second line, he had 3 points in the playoffs, he was outplayed by the likes of injured Dan Cleary. He was a plug and an experiment, his season totals weren't out of his normal averages, and his playoffs were trash. 

 

points don't necessarily translate to success, Cleary got 10 points but was not very good, Abby did a great job screening the goalie, opening up space and getting under players skin. He has potential, he just needs to work on his game a bit in the off season


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#7 dropkickshanahans

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 09:36 PM

Get Horton and bickell for top two lines. Then he can go back to third line.

If only one then he be on second line.

 

I was impressed with Bickell. He's been big for them in the playoffs.

 

Ideally I would like someone bigger and better than Abs, but I'm just not sure Holland will sign anyone unfortunately. They still have Bert, Sammy, probably resign Flip, maybe Cleary, plus the kids coming up. I guess we'll see what happens. I would like either of Horton or Clarkson though.



#8 13dangledangle

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 09:40 PM

I think Abby did well considering BUT this doenst make him a top six forward.   I think the Wings need to sign Brunner, Kindl and Smith and let Filppula, Cleary and Miller walk.   Without buying anyone out and presuming everyone is healthy we just need to give Tatar, Andersson and Nyquist full time spots.  I also think Bert if healthy would do a better spot then Abby does with Dats on the top line, they have great chemistry but that would be my backup plan to Tatar....  All that being said what does our line up look like next season?

 

 

Tatar           Datsyuk         Franzen

Brunner      Zetterberg      Nyquist

Sammy      Andersson     Bertuzzi

Abby           Helm              Tootoo   -eaves, emmerton

 

 

         ?  2013/2014 Detroit Red Wings?  Time will tell I guess...


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#9 Z Winged Dangler

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 09:51 PM

 

Would rather Clarkson. I think he would be amazing on Datsyuk's wing.

I'd throw Michael Ryder in that mix too.  Dude can bulge twine.


This offseason will determine whether Ken Holland should still be employed with the Wings organization.

 

Please put Smith on the Power Play!


#10 KrazyGangsta

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 09:51 PM

Abdelkader a top 6 ... pathetic. The only reason he is in the top 6 is because all the kids are just too young to play big minutes, that said they don't even have enough experience in the playoffs to face the likes of Toews / Kane not only that but it also shows how bad our other wingers are compared to him.

 

Abdelkader at best should be a 3rd liner, grinder ... sure why not throw him in the PP but either then that he doesn't deserve to be in the top two lines.

 

I'm not impressed by his game at all, specially lately taking those penalties because his ego his so high set now. First 4 games we we're in Chicago's head and the last 3 Chicago was in Abdelkaders head.


Edited by KrazyGangsta, 30 May 2013 - 09:53 PM.


#11 WorkingOvertime

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 09:57 PM

 

points don't necessarily translate to success, Cleary got 10 points but was not very good, Abby did a great job screening the goalie, opening up space and getting under players skin. He has potential, he just needs to work on his game a bit in the off season

I agree. Abby is valuable to the Wings because he bring something unique to the team. No other winger signed for next season is as physical, as good in front, or as good in the corners.

 

Abby led the team in ES goals this season with 10. That's the same amount as Kopitar, Perry, and Marleau, and more than both Sedins, Lucic, and Semin. He also led the Wings with 120 hits (40 more than the next player). He does these things and gets paid less than 2m a year.

 

IMO the best thing Abby playing in the top-6 does for the Wings is allow them to have three scoring lines, something the team has been missing for the past few years. As we saw in the playoffs, games are won with all four lines.

 

On the other topic, I think Emmerton's spot is available in camp this season. However, if Helm returns, Andersson will likely take the spot. Callahan has exceeded my expectations this season. IMO he won't see NHL games until 2014 unless Tootoo is injured (and needed) before that time. He and Ferraro will be fighting for Eaves' spot when his contract is over.



I think Abby did well considering BUT this doenst make him a top six forward.   I think the Wings need to sign Brunner, Kindl and Smith and let Filppula, Cleary and Miller walk.   Without buying anyone out and presuming everyone is healthy we just need to give Tatar, Andersson and Nyquist full time spots.  I also think Bert if healthy would do a better spot then Abby does with Dats on the top line, they have great chemistry but that would be my backup plan to Tatar....  All that being said what does our line up look like next season?

 

 

Tatar           Datsyuk         Franzen

Brunner      Zetterberg      Nyquist

Sammy      Andersson     Bertuzzi

Abby           Helm              Tootoo   -eaves, emmerton

 

 

         ?  2013/2014 Detroit Red Wings?  Time will tell I guess...

IMO that top-6 is too weak. Who is going to retreive the puck in the corners? Who is going to wear down the D? Who is going to play in front of the net? Those are fine powerplay lines, but I see the top lines getting pushed around by Phaneuf, Chara, Subban, etc.



#12 T.Low

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 09:59 PM

I think Abby did well considering BUT this doenst make him a top six forward.   I think the Wings need to sign Brunner, Kindl and Smith and let Filppula, Cleary and Miller walk.   Without buying anyone out and presuming everyone is healthy we just need to give Tatar, Andersson and Nyquist full time spots.  I also think Bert if healthy would do a better spot then Abby does with Dats on the top line, they have great chemistry but that would be my backup plan to Tatar....  All that being said what does our line up look like next season?

 

 

Tatar           Datsyuk         Franzen

Brunner      Zetterberg      Nyquist

Sammy      Andersson     Bertuzzi

Abby           Helm              Tootoo   -eaves, emmerton

 

 

         ?  2013/2014 Detroit Red Wings?  Time will tell I guess...

 

 

That team just looks soft to me.  I really like Nyquist (my wife call's him The Ginger Ninja; or Ginga Ninja) and Brunner but can't help but think they won't be as effective as 2nd liners.



#13 Sabaton617

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 10:08 PM

Don't think Abby is top 6 player but if Wings don't make any off season moves in bringing in that top line sniper which everyone says we need, then by default he may HAVE to be in our top 6.  I really like what I saw from Bickell in playoffs.  Big body with good hands which he showed in OT winning goal against the Wild.  Believe Bickell is UFA at the end of this year. 

3rd line of Abby-Anderson - Bickell looks good to me.

Other than his penalty killing, not too excited about Emmerton. He did have a couple good scoring chances in game 7 but other than that, nothing really sticks out about him in this year's playoffs.



#14 13dangledangle

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 10:09 PM

 

IMO that top-6 is too weak. Who is going to retreive the puck in the corners? Who is going to wear down the D? Who is going to play in front of the net? Those are fine powerplay lines, but I see the top lines getting pushed around by Phaneuf, Chara, Subban, etc.

 

 

 

That team just looks soft to me.  I really like Nyquist (my wife call's him The Ginger Ninja; or Ginga Ninja) and Brunner but can't help but think they won't be as effective as 2nd liners.

 

  Agreed on the soft aspect for sure.  This is just a mere brass tacks list of what we should have July 1st...Though workingovertime do you not miss the glorious time's when every one of our line's was a powerplay line?  I loved those times


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#15 dropkickshanahans

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 10:32 PM

On the other topic, I think Emmerton's spot is available in camp this season. However, if Helm returns, Andersson will likely take the spot. Callahan has exceeded my expectations this season. IMO he won't see NHL games until 2014 unless Tootoo is injured (and needed) before that time. He and Ferraro will be fighting for Eaves' spot when his contract is over.

 

How good is Ferraro defensively and how would you compare him to Helm? Or maybe Tatar is a better comparison?



#16 Shaman

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 12:20 AM

 

points don't necessarily translate to success, Cleary got 10 points but was not very good, Abby did a great job screening the goalie, opening up space and getting under players skin. He has potential, he just needs to work on his game a bit in the off season

When you are a top 6 player points DO necessarily translate to success. If he were a bottom 6 player/2nd PP unit specialist, than sure points are a lot less important in the grand scheme of things, but when you are a top 6 forward your job is to score. He had 3 points in 12 games, I'm sorry, but that's trash no matter what other good things he does. This is especially true when the team scores a grand total of 5 goals in 3 games. 


Feuer und Wasser kommt nicht zusammen
Kann man nicht binden sind nicht verwandt
In Funken versunken steh ich in Flammen
und bin im Wasser verbrannt
Im Wasser verbrannt

#17 FlashyG

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 01:02 AM

Abby is more valuable to the team than his point totals indicate, but he's better suited as a 3rd or 4th liner, who can fill in on the top lines when someone goes down than he is a regular top 6 guy.

 

Datsyuk defintely needs someone like him on his line, who isn't afraid to bang in the corners fighting for pucks, or who will go to the front of the net to screen a goalie and occasionally tip pucks. I just think we should be able to find someone who can do those things while still chipping in a bit more offensively.



#18 Aznknight

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 01:13 AM

Used to be Bert. Abby played the role but not as skillfully. We should get Horton.

#19 WorkingOvertime

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 06:40 AM

Don't think Abby is top 6 player but if Wings don't make any off season moves in bringing in that top line sniper which everyone says we need, then by default he may HAVE to be in our top 6.  I really like what I saw from Bickell in playoffs.  Big body with good hands which he showed in OT winning goal against the Wild.  Believe Bickell is UFA at the end of this year. 

3rd line of Abby-Anderson - Bickell looks good to me.

Other than his penalty killing, not too excited about Emmerton. He did have a couple good scoring chances in game 7 but other than that, nothing really sticks out about him in this year's playoffs.

IMO Bickell is redundant on the Wings. The Wings have too many players 3rd/4th liners, and Bickell will only add to that surplus. The Wings don't have much roster space, and I don't think Bickell brings enough to knock Tatar and/or Nyquist back to GR.

 

 

 

 

  Agreed on the soft aspect for sure.  This is just a mere brass tacks list of what we should have July 1st...Though workingovertime do you not miss the glorious time's when every one of our line's was a powerplay line?  I loved those times

I do miss it. That's why I'm also a big fan of having three scoring lines instead of being too skill-heavy in the top-6. I do think the Wings can get by with one 'all skill' line, as long as it allows a third scoring line, but some size in the top 6 is a positive for the team.

 

 

How good is Ferraro defensively and how would you compare him to Helm? Or maybe Tatar is a better comparison?

Ferraro has improved this year after many thought he would bust, but he isn't as skilled as Tatar (more like Helm in using his speed to create offense).

 

Used to be Bert. Abby played the role but not as skillfully. We should get Horton.

I'd take pre-concussion Horton any day, but I think he has slowed down in the physicality department too much to be what the Wings need. I would rather have Tatar and/or Nyquist with the Wings than Horton (at the salary he wll get). With that said, if the Wings use their buy-outs on Sammy and Bert I am for Horton.



#20 GoalieManPat

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 07:55 AM

I like Abys game but he is not a top 6 player. They guy plays well but the 3rd line is where he belongs. He doesnt have the offensive skills for top 6. Hes a 3rd line energy guy. Forcing him into a role thats not that lessens his effectiveness. Him and a healthy Helm are already 2/3's of an amazing shutdown line.







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