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Din758

What would you give up for Malkin?

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What would I give up for Malkin?

Gary-Oldman-Yelling-Everyone-Leon-The-Pr

"Can't play in key situations"

malkin-conn-smythe-winner-lrg.png

Uh huh. How many points did Datsyuk have in a 7 game series against Chicago?

1. Gary Oldman is awesome. I would give up anyone and everyone to have him as an assistant coach. Can you imagine? Mike Babcock and...Gary Oldman.

2. Key nail-biting situations. How much crap did Bylsma get for having Malkin on the ice late against the Sens that one game? And we're talking about the second round. And the Senators.

3. I'm not big on Datsyuk in the playoffs. He always seems to be "fighting an injury."

GMRwings1983 likes this

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Hi, my name's _SP_, and I'd like to remind you that were in the beginning stages of the Red Wings' off-season. This is the time where many people play, "What if?" and toss around different scenarios to pass the time between the end of the season and Free Agency/Draft/Training Camp.

If you don't like the concept... well, there's about 200 other active threads on this forum. I'm sure one of them will suit your desires.

IF Mario said, "Hey _SP_, we're looking to move Malkin. What would you give for him?" My response: G Petr Mrazek, C/W Riley Sheahan, D Kyle Quincy, and a 2014 1st Round Pick. I would not agree to touch top prospects like Tatar, Nyquist, Jarnkrok, Sproul, or Ouellett. They get an excellent goalie prospect and a top-4 NHL defenseman.

I agree, its all fun and games. That being said, I never thought of the Mrazek angle. They definitely need a direction to go with their goaltending. Fleury s*** the bed, and Vokoun is not really someone who is going to be their starter for years to come. I am good with giving up Q, and the 2014 pick. I do think though it would take more than Sheahan to sweeten the deal. I wouldn't mind giving up Tatar or Jurko and I still think that if they could do some buyouts along with this trade, it would open up more money to get a legit 2nd line scorer too. I would also want Vokoun in return to be Jimmy's backup. I would then just waive the Monster. If that involved dealing a player or two more then so be it. Of course it would be much more settling to have a deal in place to re-sign him as soon as the deal was done (just like when the traded for Hasek.) Getting Pav inked, making to trade and getting Malkin inked would have to be to way it is done. We cannot chance losing him after one season to a higher bidder. Shero could either sign him to the 8 year $80M deal and then trade him, or he could trade him to us and we could. Either way, this guy has to be paid that much.

So, in my Scenario:

to Pittsburgh : Kyle Quincey, Petr Mrazek, Tomas Tatar, 2014 1st round Pick

to Detroit : Evgeni Malkin, Tomas Vokoun

(I am going to make up a capgeek with my new roster and post it in the capgeek thread if it all works out money-wise.)

If they were going to move him-doubt it, I would give whatever they wanted. Malkin has and will continue to out score most of our forwards combined. He has 560 career points in 458 regular season games. In the playoffs he has 97 points in 82 games. That my friends is production. Proven production. That is better than either Datsyuk or Zetterberg. Malkin would be our best player and it isn't even close. At 26-soone to be 27, he has 8-10 GREAT years left.

On the open market he would get a 7 year (max) 70 million deal. If he resigns with his current team, they can go to 8 years. This is big. As for paying him, how much wasted money are the wings currently carrying? Bert-2 million, Sammy-3 million, Q-almost 4 million, Cola-2.5 million, Cleary-3 million. That is 14.5 million just on those guys.

But we would have to move our prospects. So? At best 1 out of 5 ever make it. Most don't. Nyquist, tatar, and Anderson will never produce the same amount as Malkin. Heck he might even produce MORE playing with his countryman and Ideal-Datsyuk.

Our issue this past year was O. Adding a 50+ goal guy fixes that overnight.

Now wil this ever happen? No. Holland doesn't have the stones for this type of move anymore. This would be a better move than when we traded Primeau for Shanahan.Yes Kieth turned into a great player-before the head injuries, but Shanny got us 4 cups. In the end that is what matters. Cups. Malkin makes us a cup contender. The others don't.

I agree Holland probably wouldn't have the nutso's to pull this off. BTW, Holland was not the GM when Shanahan was acquired, but he did do the Hasek deal, so he has done a big deal before....Malkin would for sure solve our Offense problem....

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1. Gary Oldman is awesome. I would give up anyone and everyone to have him as an assistant coach. Can you imagine? Mike Babcock and...Gary Oldman.

2. Key nail-biting situations. How much crap did Bylsma get for having Malkin on the ice late against the Sens that one game? And we're talking about the second round. And the Senators.

3. I'm not big on Datsyuk in the playoffs. He always seems to be "fighting an injury."

Only agree with you on the Datsyuk thing.

But Malkin is a much better playoff performer throughout his career. Who has a better playoff points per game than Malkin, since he came into the league?

Edited by GMRwings1983

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I don't know that there's much to disagree with me about the key situations thing. The Bylsma-got-shredded-for-having-Malkin-on-the-ice-late-in-that-game-against-the-Sens dealy is legit. It actually happened, and just a few weeks ago. And we're a team that prides ourselves on having special players who can do absolutely everything. Like play solid Team D.

Malkin can score like crazy. When he's not being smothered. He really doesn't understand Team D, he's goon-ish, and his face reminds me of Shrek.

EDIT: Then again, we do need a guy who can score like crazy. But at what cost?

Edited by Dabura

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Hi, my name's _SP_, and I'd like to remind you that were in the beginning stages of the Red Wings' off-season. This is the time where many people play, "What if?" and toss around different scenarios to pass the time between the end of the season and Free Agency/Draft/Training Camp.

If you don't like the concept... well, there's about 200 other active threads on this forum. I'm sure one of them will suit your desires.

IF Mario said, "Hey _SP_, we're looking to move Malkin. What would you give for him?" My response: G Petr Mrazek, C/W Riley Sheahan, D Kyle Quincy, and a 2014 1st Round Pick. I would not agree to touch top prospects like Tatar, Nyquist, Jarnkrok, Sproul, or Ouellett. They get an excellent goalie prospect and a top-4 NHL defenseman.

I would NOT trade Mrzak. He his our future and he's one of the reasons the Griffins are in the Calder Cup finals.

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I don't know that there's much to disagree with me about the key situations thing. The Bylsma-got-shredded-for-having-Malkin-on-the-ice-late-in-that-game-against-the-Sens dealy is legit. It actually happened, and just a few weeks ago. And we're a team that prides ourselves on having special players who can do absolutely everything. Like play solid Team D.

Malkin can score like crazy. When he's not being smothered. He really doesn't understand Team D, he's goon-ish, and his face reminds me of Shrek.

EDIT: Then again, we do need a guy who can score like crazy. But at what cost?

I would gladly give up Datsyuk's two way game if he could score like Malkin can. Datsyuk is too streaky offensively in the playoffs. Hell, Gretzky and Lemieux weren't great two-way centers. Did anyone care about that? Hell no!

Get a 3rd line that can play as a shut down line. Then your star players won't look gassed having too much defensive responsibility.

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Do not want.

Guy can't play defense, can't play in key nail-biting situations, can't handle smothering coverage (he just went pointless in a sweep loss with probably the best supporting cast you're going to see in this cap era. And we all remember what the Wings did to him way back when.) And I don't get the sense that he's a great team guy, though that may just be me. Still, ultimately, Do not want.

-He's underrated defensively; he's always getting back in the play torwards his zone.

-Any player of his caliber will fare well in "nail biting situations"; one instance where they got scored on does not prove your predisposition.

-You can literally say that about any top tier player in the NHL; just look at this season. Even Crosby gets s*** for not showing up past the 2nd round. Sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesn't. Malkin was the one who single-handedly took them through the ECF, then won the Conn Smythe.

Those are very vague assertions. I'd say his biggest issue is giving up the puck from trying to force plays in the O zone, and trying to be too creative. And a lot of the time he pulls it off. That and he's a hot head which leads to him taking some questionable penalties. But so does Crosby, and when he does: the guy has his back torwards him and it's behind the play.

Maybe it's just a thing from that environment, because I could never really see Bylsma reprimanding Crosby or Malkin. He's a "players coach," running a contry club. I remember when they were down in that philly series?? and he was laughing on the bench with Crosby. I'm not saying the Wings need to get Malkin, but some of the things players are tagged with are so spurious and not fair. He's a good player.

EDIT: I get the notion from fans that the only top tier good defensive forwards in the leauge are Z, Datsyuk, Toews, Bergeron, Kesler, Hossa, and maybe a few others; the rest are all liabilities.

Edited by PuckY18

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Would you give up Dats for Malkin?

Of course. Datsyuk is many years older and has hinted about playing in the KHL eventually.

No such trade would ever happen straight up, of course, but I'd make that move if it did.

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Only agree with you on the Datsyuk thing.

But Malkin is a much better playoff performer throughout his career. Who has a better playoff points per game than Malkin, since he came into the league?

How can you not agree with how awesome Gary Oldman is?

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I would gladly give up Datsyuk's two way game if he could score like Malkin can. Datsyuk is too streaky offensively in the playoffs. Hell, Gretzky and Lemieux weren't great two-way centers. Did anyone care about that? Hell no!

Get a 3rd line that can play as a shut down line. Then your star players won't look gassed having too much defensive responsibility.

I think the Pens would have had a better chance with Pav and Z instead of Crosby and Malkin.

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(he just went pointless in a sweep loss with probably the best supporting cast you're going to see in this cap era.

And I remember what Yzerman, Fedorov, Shanny et al did when we choked against the Kings. I remember what Yzerman, Shanny, Fedorov, Robitaill, Hull et al did when we got swept by the Ducks. Does that mean they suck too?

And we all remember what the Wings did to him way back when.)

Yep, the much maligned Valterri Filpulla shut him down. And the next season, Malkin was the difference when they won.

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Get a 3rd line that can play as a shut down line. Then your star players won't look gassed having too much defensive responsibility.

1. You can control the matchups in only half the games. A shutdown third line doesn't do you any good on the road when the other coach can (and often, if not usually, does) get his own third line out against yours.

2. Do you really want your third line getting the most ice time of your forwards? That's what will happen if you match them up against the other team's first line (at home).

The matchup game has changed dramatically since the days when teams would put a Bugsy Watson out against a Bobby Hull. I don't think we will go back to third line-vs-first line (at home) any time soon. It would be nice if Z and D didn't have to expend a lot of energy checking the Toews line and the Kane line, for instance, but I don't see too many coaches resisting such head-to-head matchups. The real key, I think, is to get a third line that can outscore the other team's third line. When the Wings were up 3-1 against Chicago, it was in large part because Nyquist-Andersson-Brunner were outplaying the third-liners they were matched against. When Chicago came back, and also against L.A., a lot of it had to do with the scoring it was getting from Bickell, not the big guns.

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I think the Pens would have had a better chance with Pav and Z instead of Crosby and Malkin.

I doubt it. Pav and Z are past their primes and are only better than Malkin/Crosby as defensive forwards. Offensively, it's not even close.

The Pens needed goals from their stars and didn't get them, against a big and physical Boston team. I don't know how Pavel and Z would have done better, not being big guys themselves.

1. You can control the matchups in only half the games. A shutdown third line doesn't do you any good on the road when the other coach can (and often, if not usually, does) get his own third line out against yours.

2. Do you really want your third line getting the most ice time of your forwards? That's what will happen if you match them up against the other team's first line (at home).

The matchup game has changed dramatically since the days when teams would put a Bugsy Watson out against a Bobby Hull. I don't think we will go back to third line-vs-first line (at home) any time soon. It would be nice if Z and D didn't have to expend a lot of energy checking the Toews line and the Kane line, for instance, but I don't see too many coaches resisting such head-to-head matchups. The real key, I think, is to get a third line that can outscore the other team's third line. When the Wings were up 3-1 against Chicago, it was in large part because Nyquist-Andersson-Brunner were outplaying the third-liners they were matched against. When Chicago came back, and also against L.A., a lot of it had to do with the scoring it was getting from Bickell, not the big guns.

That's true, but I remember Anaheim having a great checking line when they won the Cup in 2007. We had a good checking line with Draper and Maltby as defensive stalwarts too.

How can you not agree with how awesome Gary Oldman is?

Oh yeah. Forgot that point.

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And I remember what Yzerman, Fedorov, Shanny et al did when we choked against the Kings. I remember what Yzerman, Shanny, Fedorov, Robitaill, Hull et al did when we got swept by the Ducks. Does that mean they suck too?

Yep, the much maligned Valterri Filpulla shut him down. And the next season, Malkin was the difference when they won.

Calm down.

My point is, I want a guy who's not going to get shut down. And so do you. We all do. We're Wings fans - we know what it's like to see our high-powered, high-octane forwards get shut-the-eff-down. And it's not fun. Now, maybe if he were more responsible defensively (OMG IS HE REALLY PLAYING THAT CARD), I'd be more keen on selling the farm for him. (And we would have to sell the farm for him.)

He's generally a force to be reckoned with. I'm not denying that. I just feel like, for all the skill he has, there's a blueprint for shutting him down, and when he gets shut down, he's absolutely useless. If I'm selling my farm, I at least want a guy who can not only score like mad but play some real good defense as well. I think I'd like Dustin Brown or Ryan Callahan. They can score, they can hit, they can play D. And their faces don't remind me of Shrek.

OH MY GOD DID HE JUST SAY THAT

Edited by Dabura

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I wouldnt do it for Nyquist. I would trade 2 1st round picks, smith, Tatar or Sheahan for Malkin. The only few untouchables out of the young players are Brunner(if he reups) andersson,Nyquist, DeKeyser , and maybe Emmerton. The rest are fair game.

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I wouldnt do it for Nyquist. I would trade 2 1st round picks, smith, Tatar or Sheahan for Malkin. The only few untouchables out of the young players are Brunner(if he reups) andersson,Nyquist, DeKeyser , and maybe Emmerton. The rest are fair game.

Emmerton? Untouchable? For serious?

Out of those, I'd say Nyquist and DeKeyser are pretty much untouchable. I could part with Brunner and Andersson. I'm not big on Smith. I think I'd like to keep Tatar, but I wouldn't weep if we lost him for something nice. Sheahan, eh.

Edited by Dabura

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I said maybe Emmerton. I wouldnt part with any young player unless they get great value back.

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Zetterberg and Datsyuk sacrifice scoring for defense and the team and have class. I would much rather have Datsyuk or Zetterberg on my team.

He could play much better defense than he does if he wanted to but he would have to sacrifice some scoring to do so.

5 years from now when Datsyuk and Z are retired, Malkin will still be puttig up 50 goals seasons. Yes I said seasons. Something Dat and Z have never done on there own. In many years Malkin outscores those 2 combined by himself.

For example, in 2011/12 Z and Dat scored 41 goals combined. Malkin scored 50. At 27 he is just entering his prime years. Whereas Z 34 and Dat 35 are past theirs.

Edited by Richdg

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I wouldnt do it for Nyquist. I would trade 2 1st round picks, smith, Tatar or Sheahan for Malkin. The only few untouchables out of the young players are Brunner(if he reups) andersson,Nyquist, DeKeyser , and maybe Emmerton. The rest are fair game.

You are joking right? Nyquist, Anderson, and Emmerton? At best we get 30 goals from that group. The biggest positive about them is they are cheap.

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I said maybe Emmerton. I wouldnt part with any young player unless they get great value back.

You realize we're talking about Evgeni friggin Malkin right?

MAYBE Emmerton? Good god almighty....what is happening

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You realize we're talking about Evgeni friggin Malkin right?

MAYBE Emmerton? Good god almighty....what is happening

Ha ha. Youre right. Malkin for Emdog. Straight up. I mmmmmmmight do that.

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That's true, but I remember Anaheim having a great checking line when they won the Cup in 2007. We had a good checking line with Draper and Maltby as defensive stalwarts too.

Yes, but Draper/Maltby/McCarty (or Kocur) was quite a long time ago, when there was a somewhat different approach to line-matching. Even then, I think the only time that trio got on against the other team's top line was when Scotty won the matchup game either because he was at home or because the other coach wasn't as smart or as matchup-oriented. I don't think the Draper/Maltby line played many minutes against a No. 1 or No. 2 line in 2008.

It would be interesting to go back and see how Anaheim used its third line in 2007 but I seem to recall that they were noted primarily because of their PK and because these "defensive" guys gave their opponents fits in the offensive zone. I'd be surprised if they were able to consistently get them out against the top line for the other team. The Wings lost to Anaheim that year -- does anyone remember how the line matchups worked in that series?

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I like people acting like picking up a superstar basically guarantees us a cup.

On paper the Pens were basically an all star team and they still got swept.

Hockeymom1960 likes this

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