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Dreger: Filppula looking for $5.5m/season over at least 7 years

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When Flip was center he was paired with much worse players than when Weiss was. Who did Flip center? Franzen? Bertuzzi? Cleary? Sammy? All players barely quantifiable as top six players. Weiss played with Versteeg and Fleischmann, with a ton more TOI too, who both had good years in 11-12 when he scored 57 points.

And Crymson, Cambell almost scored more points than Lidstrom and Kronwall combined in 11-12.

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When Flip was center he was paired with much worse players than when Weiss was. Who did Flip center? Franzen? Bertuzzi? Cleary? Sammy? All players barely quantifiable as top six players. Weiss played with Versteeg and Fleischmann, with a ton more TOI too, who both had good years in 11-12 when he scored 57 points.

And Crymson, Cambell almost scored more points than Lidstrom and Kronwall combined in 11-12.

The issue is that Filp couldn't hold down the second-line center position. Weiss can. He produces, wins face offs, and has done more with less than Filppula did in his time here.

Also, Campbell might have scored more points, but I believe the point Crymson was making stemmed from the defensive side of things. Campbell is a sieve compared to Lidstrom.

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Weiss is a steady 20 goal, 50-60 point guy. And on a much worse team. You know, the guy we kept waiting for Filppula to become. Instant upgrade.

When Flip was center he was paired with much worse players than when Weiss was. Who did Flip center? Franzen? Bertuzzi? Cleary? Sammy? All players barely quantifiable as top six players. Weiss played with Versteeg and Fleischmann, with a ton more TOI too, who both had good years in 11-12 when he scored 57 points.

And Crymson, Cambell almost scored more points than Lidstrom and Kronwall combined in 11-12.

Did you forget all the time Flip spent with Zetterberg and Franzen? Flip should have been much more productive than he was.

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The issue is that Filp couldn't hold down the second-line center position. Weiss can. He produces, wins face offs, and has done more with less than Filppula did in his time here.

Also, Campbell might have scored more points, but I believe the point Crymson was making stemmed from the defensive side of things. Campbell is a sieve compared to Lidstrom.

Er, did you not read my post? Filppula didn't not work out as center because he can't center a line, but because his linemates when he was center were barely top 6ers at best.

And I'm pretty sure that when it comes to scoring, I think a defenseman who scored almost 60 points would be more beneficial than one who scored 30.

Did you forget all the time Flip spent with Zetterberg and Franzen? Flip should have been much more productive than he was.

He almost scored 70 points and was 13th in the league in even strength scoring. How much better are you supposed to get?

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Er, did you not read my post? Filppula didn't not work out as center because he can't center a line, but because his linemates when he was center were barely top 6ers at best.

And I'm pretty sure that when it comes to scoring, I think a defenseman who scored almost 60 points would be more beneficial than one who scored 30.

He almost scored 70 points and was 13th in the league in even strength scoring. How much better are you supposed to get?

His ability to play the center position isn't directly related to his wingers. Plus, how is Franzen "barely top 6" material?

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Er, did you not read my post? Filppula didn't not work out as center because he can't center a line, but because his linemates when he was center were barely top 6ers at best.

And I'm pretty sure that when it comes to scoring, I think a defenseman who scored almost 60 points would be more beneficial than one who scored 30.

He almost scored 70 points and was 13th in the league in even strength scoring. How much better are you supposed to get?

He scored 66 points, not almost 70. And if you're asking for the kind of money he allegedly is, you need to produce near that for more than one season.

For most of his 8 year career, Flip has mostly been a 35-40 point guy.

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His ability to play the center position isn't directly related to his wingers. Plus, how is Franzen "barely top 6" material?

It's not related at all, that's my point. Poor production when he is at center isn't because he can't play center, but because when he plays center, he had poor linemates.

And I call Franzen "barely top 6" because he is lazy, floats, can't make plays, doesn't cycle well and only scores goals when someone gives him the puck in a perfect scoring position.

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It's not related at all, that's my point. Poor production when he is at center isn't because he can't play center, but because when he plays center, he had poor linemates.

And I call Franzen "barely top 6" because he is lazy, floats, can't make plays, doesn't cycle well and only scores goals when someone gives him the puck in a perfect scoring position.

So Franzen, who has outproduced Flip virtually every year they've been on the team, is barely a top 6 guy?

Franzen is lazy at times but that's a gross exaggeration of his abilities otherwise. He can and does absolutely make plays, cycle well, and score goals.

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And if you're asking for the kind of money he allegedly is, you need to produce near that for more than one season.

I agree. It's just people are acting like Weiss or Grabovski would be a big upgrade, when in reality its a lateral move at best.

And actually, over the past 5 seasons he has averaged .60 ppg. That's 50 points, not 35.

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Weiss is a steady 20 goal, 50-60 point guy. And on a much worse team. You know, the guy we kept waiting for Filppula to become. Instant upgrade.

Did you forget all the time Flip spent with Zetterberg and Franzen? Flip should have been much more productive than he was.

So should have Z and Franzen.

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Past two years:

Filppula: 122g, 32g, 51a

Weiss: 97g, 21g, 40a

Grabovski: 122g, 32g, 35a

How are weiss or Grabovski any better than Filppula?

At this point, anyone on the FA list is a downgrade from Flip. If we sign Weiss for anything around $4.5m, it would be insane.

That's because you're taking Filppula's ONE good season in there. That's the whole point, nobody believes that that's the player he really is. He finally breaks through and then regresses.

Here's some more telling stats of the top 5 seasons for each player (from best to worst):

Filppula: 66 pts, 40 pts, 39 pts, 36 pts, 35 pts

Weiss: 61 pts, 60 pts, 57 pts, 49 pts, 48 pts.

And Weiss played on a crap team for most of those years.

There is no way Filppula is better.

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I agree. It's just people are acting like Weiss or Grabovski would be a big upgrade, when in reality its a lateral move at best.

And actually, over the past 5 seasons he has averaged .60 ppg. That's 50 points, not 35.

I'm talking about real numbers. Not extrapolations from ppg.

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Franzen is lazy at times but that's a gross exaggeration of his abilities otherwise. He can and does absolutely make plays, cycle well, and score goals.

At times? You mean the times when he's on the ice?

And Franzen has always had a much bigger role on the team with a ton of PP time and playing with Pav or Z. He does his job marginally well as long as he is with a bonafide star like Datsyuk or Zetterberg.

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At times? You mean the times when he's on the ice?

And Franzen has always had a much bigger role on the team with a ton of PP time and playing with Pav or Z. He does his job marginally well as long as he is with a bonafide star like Datsyuk or Zetterberg.

Except Franzen never expected to be paid as a first liner, according to St James Flip wants first line center money. No thank you. Weiss at <5 million please.

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I'm telling you how many points he scores per game. You can't say that's not a "real number" or a real argument just because it makes you wrong.

I'm not arguing his PPG. But that doesn't make him a 50 point per season guy.

In terms of points actually produced in games that were actually played, in his career Flip has generally put up 35 to 40 points. I'm not wrong about that.

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Except Franzen never expected to be paid as a first liner, according to St James Flip wants first line center money. No thank you. Weiss at <5 million please.

Franzen is getting paid $5.25 million right now. The only reason his cap hit is so low is because of the $4m he gets paid over the last 3 years of the contract.

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That's because you're taking Filppula's ONE good season in there. That's the whole point, nobody believes that that's the player he really is. He finally breaks through and then regresses.

Here's some more telling stats of the top 5 seasons for each player (from best to worst):

Filppula: 66 pts, 40 pts, 39 pts, 36 pts, 35 pts

Weiss: 61 pts, 60 pts, 57 pts, 49 pts, 48 pts.

And Weiss played on a crap team for most of those years.

There is no way Filppula is better.

This. Filppula had one good year that fits right in with Weiss' average season, maybe a little bit more points but Weiss is better

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In terms of points actually produced in games that were actually played, in his career Flip has generally put up 35 to 40 points. I'm not wrong about that.

You're not paintng a full picture since you don'tmention how many games he played. Unless you don't think he would have scored 6 more points if he played 27 more games to make a full season in 09-10.

Otherwise he comes in around 35-40 points per year.

There is really no point in rehashing the entire Filppula argument if you're going to ignore facts.

Water must be blue, until you actually think about it, right?

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You're not paintng a full picture since you don'tmention how many games he played. Unless you don't think he would have scored 6 more points if he played 27 more games to make a full season in 09-10.

6 more points? sure he probably could have, which would put him at 41 points for the season. That's pretty close to the 35-40 points I've been saying.

But really who knows what he would have done? Maybe he goes on a hot streak and scores 2 goals a game for 27 games. Maybe he fails to register a point for the entire rest of the season.

I'm talking about the points a player has regularly put up, not extrapolations. Health factors into that.

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Franzen is getting paid $5.25 million right now. The only reason his cap hit is so low is because of the $4m he gets paid over the last 3 years of the contract.

And? What he is getting paid now makes no difference in this world, his cap hit is important. Flip wants 5.5 million AAV. Hes not worth that, hes worth 4-4.5 tops, especially after how badly he s*** the bed last year.

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