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Guest The Axe

Abdelkader Hypothetical

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i don't see abby playing on the PP though.. at least not yet.

pav, z, alfie, mule, bert, weiss, nyq, tatar are all guys i see on the PP before abby.

hell, even sammy would be on there before abby, not that i'd want him to be at all..

I think the PP is where Abby's play is best. Over the course of lat season, his play in front of the net improved greatly.

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Guest The Axe

In the 2008 and 2009 seasons, with Datsyuk and Zetterberg in their primes and having their best career offensive seasons, Holmstrom never had 50 pts. Contrary to what some believe, neither Datsyuk nor Zetterberg are the same players they were then. Those guys will be good this year, but they aren't going to squeeze blood from a stone. I'd love it if you're right, but Abby has not shown the ability to produce even as consistently as Miller at the NHL level, and D and Z aren't at an age where they can still make anyone around them look that good. Hell Franzen has consistently played on Datsyuk's wing for a couple years now and only gets 50-60 pts. And whether you like him or not, Franzen is about 2,000,000 times the offensive player that Abby is.

Playing with Datsyuk or Zetterberg is no longer a way to get more out of less. At their age we should be acquiring complimentary pieces to help keep their numbers up, not the other way around. I would have loved a shooting winger for Datsyuk, and to see Zetterberg on Weiss' wing. In my opinion that would be a better dynamic than once again asking those two to play their game and half of everybody else's as well.

Newsflash: Holmstrom SUCKED. You are making him out to be the constant with Z and Dats the variables. Thats ridiculous.

"Since Holmstrom couldn't score 50 pts, neither can any other NHLer."

Holmstrom was a gamer, and I love the guy for that. But he was TERRIBLE at playing hockey his last 3-4 years, while just being serviceable during his prime.

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I think the PP is where Abby's play is best. Over the course of lat season, his play in front of the net improved greatly.

Yep.

Holland and Babcock want some one in Holmer's office. Abby and Cleary are the best we have, Bert is good, Franzen is good as long as no one touches him too much; he gets squimish.

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:eh:

55 points?

Guy scored 3 points in 12 playoff games, playing on the top lines. He's not an offensive player and has hammer hands.

Babcock needs to put this guy on the lower lines where he belongs.

Lower lines, not on the team....

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Newsflash: Holmstrom SUCKED. You are making him out to be the constant with Z and Dats the variables. Thats ridiculous.

"Since Holmstrom couldn't score 50 pts, neither can any other NHLer."

Holmstrom was a gamer, and I love the guy for that. But he was TERRIBLE at playing hockey his last 3-4 years, while just being serviceable during his prime.

All I'm saying is that Holmstrom outperformed Abby offensively at every single stage of his career. He was a more prolific scorer as a rookie, a more prolific scorer in his second year, third, fourth, etc. etc. etc. He played with D and Z in their primes and didn't score 50. Abby is playing with them on the downswing of their careers, and Abby himself is has not shown that's he's offensively capable. As such, he's not likely to score 50 just because he's playing regularly with them.

Not that nobody could, certainly Corey Perry could, or any other player who goes to the net and has consistent offensive capabilities. I'm just saying Abby won't, because he doesn't have offense, and they're too old to drag him along offensively.

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No matter his point production I prefer him playing with our euro twins. He's one of the more heavy hitters on our team and like our magician has said, the man pulls pianos. If he hits 50 points it's safe to call him a pianist

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Guest The Axe

All I'm saying is that Holmstrom outperformed Abby offensively at every single stage of his career. He was a more prolific scorer as a rookie, a more prolific scorer in his second year, third, fourth, etc. etc. etc. He played with D and Z in their primes and didn't score 50. Abby is playing with them on the downswing of their careers, and Abby himself is has not shown that's he's offensively capable. As such, he's not likely to score 50 just because he's playing regularly with them.

Not that nobody could, certainly Corey Perry could, or any other player who goes to the net and has consistent offensive capabilities. I'm just saying Abby won't, because he doesn't have offense, and they're too old to drag him along offensively.

Ok. I hear you.

But here's the thing:

Abby led our team in even strength goals last year.

He played half the year with Z and Dats after Benedict Brunner fizzled.

He's only 26.

Im gonna give him a full season of 20 mins a night with 2 good linemates before I doubt him.

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Ok. I hear you.

But here's the thing:

Abby led our team in even strength goals last year.

He played half the year with Z and Dats after Benedict Brunner fizzled.

He's only 26.

Im gonna give him a full season of 20 mins a night with 2 good linemates before I doubt him.

He lead a team that was at the bottom 1/3rd of the league in goals. Sorry, but if the Wings were prolific scores last season, I could see it, but they were anemic on offense, and this was fluke.

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Guest The Axe

He lead a team that was at the bottom 1/3rd of the league in goals. Sorry, but if the Wings were prolific scores last season, I could see it, but they were anemic on offense, and this was fluke.

Facts are Facts. Discrediting them as flukes is a weak argument.

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Facts are Facts. Discrediting them as flukes is a weak argument.

Fact: Cheechoo had 56 goals one season. One season proves nothing, especially when that season shows he was on pace to have 22 points over 82 games and was playing with one of the best players in the world.

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Guest The Axe

Fact: Cheechoo had 56 goals one season. One season proves nothing, especially when that season shows he was on pace to have 22 points over 82 games and was playing with one of the best players in the world.

I would argue that he only played half the season with Datsyuk. And I'd argue that Z on the other wing instead of Cleary would make a HUGE difference.

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I think affording Abs a real chance on their wing will be able to determine his real value with them. Like Axe is saying, he didn't even really spend much time on Dats' wing, and Cleary was with them. He's got a better shot and foot speed than Homer did; he just really needs to work on his net-front positioning and balance. The guy's been used as a PK'er and checking line forward, it's kind of hard to just throw him into a new role and expect him to adapt right away. Give the guy some time before you write him off in that role.

Edited by Jesusberg

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I would argue that he only played half the season with Datsyuk. And I'd argue that Z on the other wing instead of Cleary would make a HUGE difference.

Well if the playoffs are any indication, he's trash and should only be on the 4th line.

I think affording Abs a real chance on their wing will be able to determine his real value with them. Like Axe is saying, he didn't even really spend much time on Dats' wing, and Cleary was with them. He's got a better shot and foot speed than Homer did; he just really needs to work on his net-front positioning and balance. The guy's been used as a PK'er and checking line forward, it's kind of hard to just throw him into a new role and expect him to adapt right away. Give the guy some time before you write him off in that role.

I disagree about his shot, his hands aren't stone, but Homer had a very underrated wrist shot.

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Well if the playoffs are any indication, he's trash and should only be on the 4th line.

I disagree about his shot, his hands aren't stone, but Homer had a very underrated wrist shot.

|

Seriously, looking at this video, tell me he doesn't have 20 goal upside on Pavel's wing. And more than whatever points he puts up, he can create a lot of room for Dats and Z. He's got the ability to make some power moves to the net, he can be a pest and has a better shot than people think. His biggest issue is consistency, which I think will come with more confidence.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QyKYbrNpRh0

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I'd say Miller or Eaves have the ability to put up 20 goals on Pav's wing, they've shown some offensive capability even without playing with Pav. Abdelkader simply hasn't shown that so far in his career. I'm not saying he isn't useful up there as a thumper, but I think anything like 50 points is expecting too much given what he's shown to this point in his career. Could he break out all David Clarkson? Maybe, but nobody saw that coming either. Playing the odds I'd say max he's capable of what Bertuzzi did two years ago on Pav's wing, 14 goals 24 assists. And that's on the high end.

As I've already stated, if you look back through his season last year you'll notice that he really wasn't a scoring threat despite leading the team in even strength goals. 3 goals in one game, three others bounced in off his body by other players (two of which came in one game). So realistically 50% of his production came in two games and a full third came via just standing around in the crease. Again, kudos to him for getting in front of the net, but it's not like he's tipping in shots or banging in rebounds.

Edit: I was wrong on two posts in this thread. Abdelkader's first goal of last season was an empty netter, not a deflection off his body. Just to be accurate, though I still think my point is valid.

Edited by kipwinger

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I would argue that he only played half the season with Datsyuk. And I'd argue that Z on the other wing instead of Cleary would make a HUGE difference.

I would argue Abby has no right to play in the top 6 at all. He can't shoot, can't pass, can't deflect shots... he basically can't do anything right except maybe hit the odd person here and there. He is a 3rd or 4th line player, nothing more.

Also I don't even want to see him on a line with D and Z. It's just a waste to have someone play with great players who cannot finish anything.

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:eh

Guy scored 3 points in 12 playoff games, playing on the top lines. He's not an offensive player and has hammer hands.

Babcock needs to put this guy on the lower lines where he belongs.

What he does give you is a net presence you just have to evaluate how important that is to have

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I would argue Abby has no right to play in the top 6 at all. He can't shoot, can't pass, can't deflect shots... he basically can't do anything right except maybe hit the odd person here and there. He is a 3rd or 4th line player, nothing more.

Also I don't even want to see him on a line with D and Z. It's just a waste to have someone play with great players who cannot finish anything.

So who would you rather play with them?

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