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Holland on SiriusXM w/ audio link


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#61 Datsyukian-Deke

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 11:23 PM

It makes me laugh when people talk about the physicality difference between East and West. People make the West sound like a bunch of Justin Beibers skate around slapping each other. Sure the East may have a few more "physical" players but it's not like Western Conference teams are playing no-check hockey. We will be fine in he East...people need to stop worrying.

#62 Crymson

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 11:26 PM

Agreed sometimes the "eyeball test" means a lot. As someone that watches the eastern conference a lot I can see they're tougher and more physical.....then when I need to support it cause many people don't trust the eyeball test. Then I also have facts to back it up. The east hits more. Period end of story.

 

In other words, "This is how things are, because I say so---facts be damned---and if you don't agree, then you're a fool." Why even bother to say such a thing on a discussion forum? I sometimes wonder if you have any association whatsoever with the concept of subjectivity.


Edited by Crymson, 09 July 2013 - 11:27 PM.


#63 AtomicPunk

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 11:37 PM

 

Manhandle like this?

 

 

I'll take it.

On a side note, I don't think I've ever seen Filppula do that.


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#64 Crymson

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 11:38 PM

 

Everyone plays their goons against Montreal, and punks their team out.  

 

Why wouldn't they try that same strategy against us?  

 

Teams like Montreal and Buffalo have been in denial for years about getting bigger in the East, but they're trying to change their philosophies with recent moves.  There's something to that.  Not like these other GM's are idiots, while Holland is a genius.  


 

Not really.  

 

 

Sigh. I'm not sure why you made that claim despite your clear unfamiliarity with the matter, but rest assured that you are incorrect. And while Montreal's GM seems to be fairly decent, that Darcy Regier is an idiot is an allegation that no Sabres fan will dispute.


Edited by Crymson, 09 July 2013 - 11:41 PM.


#65 Wings4Life19

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 12:13 AM

Clown. There is a difference between 15 games a season well like thirty including the few physical WC teams and playing like 60 games against more physical teams.

Remember what weber did to z? We HAVE NO ONE to stand up to against stuff like that. The biggest thing with having a fighter is to let guys know our stars are untouchable.


The east hits more. Period end of story.

I agree there is a difference from the odd game against the east here and there and playing them potentially 3 times a week, but thats still a 61% winning percentage against eastern teams over a great deal of time.

Your argument doesn't hold up, if the east is so much more physical than the west then why has the west won 5 of the 8 cups since the lockout and 11 of the last 19. Shouldn't the east have just bullied there way to a cup every year.

The last time i checked NHL games are decided by the team that scores the most goals not by who has the most hits, if the rules have changed please let me know.



#66 Crymson

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 12:56 AM

For kicks, I did the math on hits (and more!) for the past four seasons.

 

In the 2013 season, EC teams averaged 1197.6 hits apiece, or 24.95 per game. WC teams averaged 1174.1 hits apiece, or 24.46 per game. The difference? A miniscule .5 hits per game. The Stanley Cup winner was dead last in the league in hits. The Maple Leafs were #1. The Bruins (who seem to be getting the most attention in this thread) ranked in at #10. Of the top ten hitters, five each resided in the EC and WC. Of the top eleven players (four were tied for 5th place) in major penalties, four played in the EC, five played in the WC, and the final two split their time between the two conferences.

 

In the 2011-2012 season, EC teams averaged 1911.2 hits, or 23.31 per game. WC teams averaged 1821.9 hits, or 22.21 per game. The difference? An unimpressive 1.1 hits per game. The Stanley Cup winner was #2 in the league in hits. The Rangers, who failed to qualify for the playoffs, were #1. The Bruins ranked in at #20. Of the top ten hitters, seven played in the EC and three in the WC. Of the top eleven players (two players were tied for 6th place) in major penalties, five resided in the EC, five played in the WC, and the last split his time between the two.

 

In the 2010-2011 season, EC teams averaged 1835.9 hits, or 22.39 per game. WC teams averaged 1891.5 hits, or 23.06 per game. The difference? An tiny .69 hits per game, this time in favor of the WC. The Stanley Cup winner was #21 in hits. The Rangers were #1. The Bruins, as mentioned, were #21---two spots below the Wings. Of the top ten hitters, five each played in the EC and WC. Of the top twelve players (three players were tied for 8th place) in major penalties, three played in the EC, and nine resided in the WC.

 

In the 2009-2010 season, EC teams averaged 1806.7 hits, or 22.03 per game. WC teams averaged 1807.6 hits, or 22.04 per game. The difference? A completely irrelevant .01 hits per game, in favor of the WC. The Stanley Cup winner was #25 in hits. The Stars, who failed to qualify for the playoffs, were #1. The Bruins ranked in at #10, again two spots beneath the Wings. Of the top ten hitters, three resided in the EC and seven in the WC. Of the top ten (no ties in the final place this time) players in major penalties, four played in the EC, five played in the WC, and the last split his time between the two conferences.

 

For those who would prefer it in table form, here are the per-team averages for each conference:

table_zps76605952.png

 

So there you have it. I hope that these numbers will help to put to rest this talk about the East being an immensely tougher conference. In other news, I can't believe that I just spent 45 minutes on this.


Edited by Crymson, 10 July 2013 - 01:18 AM.


#67 The Axe

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 02:39 AM

Hits is a lame stat. Franzen records them, and he's never done a real one in his life.

#68 Crymson

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 02:40 AM

Hits is a lame stat. Franzen records them, and he's never done a real one in his life.

 

 



#69 The Axe

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 02:44 AM

One elbow and one hit. Big deal.

#70 DeGraa55

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 04:55 AM

I agree there is a difference from the odd game against the east here and there and playing them potentially 3 times a week, but thats still a 61% winning percentage against eastern teams over a great deal of time.
Your argument doesn't hold up, if the east is so much more physical than the west then why has the west won 5 of the 8 cups since the lockout and 11 of the last 19. Shouldn't the east have just bullied there way to a cup every year.
The last time i checked NHL games are decided by the team that scores the most goals not by who has the most hits, if the rules have changed please let me know.



It does hold up. The west wins cups because they generally have more skill and the players don't have as much wear and tear. You will see.


The wings will start off fantastic and slow down a lot as the year goes on.

#71 amato

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 05:33 AM

And it was really joy to watch :lol:
 
...but the point is that the Pens played on the tougher and bigger card by adding Iginla,Morrow and Murray at the trade deadline and still got swept by the Bruins.Wouldn't mind to see those players here,but there's no a guarantee the Wings are gonna be a better team. :eh:


Oh the pens? You mean that team with no D, very little depth and shaky playoff goaltending? :P

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#72 darkmanx

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 06:49 AM

On a side note, I don't think I've ever seen Filppula do that.

 

He would pull off that move and be looking for someone to pass to.



#73 FireCaptain

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 07:14 AM

They do that every year and also in most games.

 

The wings will start off fantastic and slow down a lot as the year goes on.


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#74 pucktividi

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 08:08 AM

Oh the pens? You mean that team with no D, very little depth and shaky playoff goaltending? :P

 

yep,Orpik,Engelland,Murray,Dupuis,Adams,Morrow,Cooke and the rest of the lazy and soft group  :tounge2:



#75 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 09:22 AM

 

I'm sorry, but if the stats don't tell the "story", what does?

 

This is beginning to enter the bizzaro world class of arguments.

 

He said stats don't tell the whole story.

 

Which they don't because people often draw conclusions out of context that the stats don't actually support. 

 

Dan Cleary was 2nd only to Zetterberg in playoff points.  So Cleary is the 2nd best player on the team?  Cleary was the 2nd most important player this postseason?  Cleary was better than Datsyuk in the playoffs? 

 

While obviously not that extreme of a statement, Detroit's record against the East in the past doesn't mean much to me.  It's not a very big sample size, especially considering they didn't play any games against the East this season, and it's a very different thing to be in a division with teams than to play them every once in a while.  

 

Given the roster changes, all new teams they'll be playing much more frequently, but now having less travel I frankly don't know how we'll do against the East.  There are some teams that are definitely tougher but that doesn't mean they'll necessarily win games. 

 



#76 Dabura

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 09:31 AM

The East is silly. I've lived my whole life here, I know.

 

You know me. I "hate" our team lots. However, even I have to say: this move to the EC may be the best thing that has ever happened, and will ever happen, to the Detroit Red Wings.

 

There's a not-entirely-out-of-the-realm-of-possibility chance that we tear this conference a new U-KNOW-WUT right from the get-go - and never look back.


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#77 topshelf14

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 10:24 AM

I think the Wings will be fine in the East. I dislike that they have an additional team in the East compared to the West but as far as toughness is concerned it will not be a problem. The Wings matched up against the more physical teams over the years and typically out skilled them after they took stupid penalties against them. Besides the a central division had teams like the Blues, Predators and BJ's that wanted to kill the Wings but we still dominated them over the years.

Some of you guys need to sack up and stop being sooooo scared!
Go Wings!!!

#78 Nev

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 12:12 PM

On a side note, I don't think I've ever seen Filppula do that.

 

O RLY?

 


"If I can be totally honest, it's not a lot of guys you get impressed by. Actually, it's no one else but him. From the bench, to see what move he makes -- you're like, 'I wish I could do that.' Sometimes you sit on the bench and just think, 'wow,' and you look over to the other bench and they sit there and shake their heads, too. He has great, great skills. I'm probably not going to play with another player who has the kind of skills he has." Mikael Samuelsson on Pavel Datsyuk

#79 stillwater

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 12:16 PM

It does hold up. The west wins cups because they generally have more skill and the players don't have as much wear and tear. You will see.


The wings will start off fantastic and slow down a lot as the year goes on.

 

What evidence to you have to back up your preposterous claims?



#80 stillwater

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 12:21 PM

 

 

 

 

 

Dan Cleary was 2nd only to Zetterberg in playoff points.  So Cleary is the 2nd best player on the team?  Cleary was the 2nd most important player this postseason?  Cleary was better than Datsyuk in the playoffs? 

 

 

 

 

It would be hard for me to believe that you don't understand the concept of small sample size.

 

The playoffs was 14 games. Links and tables have been post showing no discernible difference in size, hitting or fighting in the East and West.

 

Years of stats is a trend, 14 games is dumb luck ...


Edited by stillwater, 10 July 2013 - 12:25 PM.






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