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Samuelsson: IR to All-Star?

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Abdelkader on the top line? I hope to God not.

Could be worse. Had the team brought back Cleary then Babs wouldn't be able to help himself than to put him up there at some point.

The fact the Sammy couldn't stay healthy enough to prove his contract worth shows hes not worth the contract.

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Right, one of the best gms and coaches in the league have absolutely no clue what a 4th line should consist of. And in further news kwame is innocentNot the last few years they don't. You're thinking old times. Don't. It's 2013. For the last few seasons, our 4th line has been useless and a waste of time. Sure it is. 2 guys who get in and hit and Samuelsson is good at pissing people off. 2 grinders and a guy who shoots. Also if he shows anything he could bump Abdelkader out of the top 6. Samuelsson as the shooter for Datsyuk and Zetterberg could work well. As for our 4th line, put the injured guys in and it's better.Miller hits? Also, Helm is more of a 3rd liner . He's too important to this team to be on the 4th line.
#2 among the forwards in hits.I don't think the 4th line will play much less than the 3rd at even strength. It's more likely that both will play the same and the differences in toi will be special teams.
When he takes time away from kids then people can complain about it Eaves and Emmerton are the guys getting cut not anyone better than a 4th liner.2 years at $3 mil is not a big contract. I can easily list a dozen signed the last 2 years worse. The ntc was a moot point. If he played well they wouldn't want to trade him. If he played bad nobody would want him and players will generally waive them anyway.When he's healthy he can score 45+ points throw a few hits and piss off the other team. If he's not orbhe craps the bed then he sits on IR again or the press box and a younger guy gets his ice time. Win-win.That's where my concern lies. I don't see Samuelsson taking Eaves' or Emmerton's spot. Those two likely aren't playing regardless if everyone is healthy to start the season. Z - Pav - AbbyMule - Weiss - AlfieNyquist - Helm - TatarMiller - Andersson - BertuzziI think you could mess around with the combinations on the bottom two lines, but those are the guys I think should/will dress if everything goes well with Helm. That doesn't even include Tootoo. So, even if the Wings end up cutting ties with Emmerton and/or Eaves, I still don't see where Samuelsson fits. I guess you could make a case over Bertuzzi, but I think Bert is more valuable with his ability to create space and as an asset in the shootout. My overriding fear here is Nyquist goes to Grand Rapids all because of Samuelsson. When clearly, Gus has earned his place in the NHL.
If a trade isn't made Bertuzzi Samuelsson and Tootoo will be fighting for playing time. Nyquist and Tatar will be in unless they play their way out of the lineup. Edited by DickieDunn

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You don't recall correctly. If I'm wrong, please post a link with Samuelsson's nasty quotes about Detroit from that time period. Seriously, has the Samuelsson hate gotten to the point now where we're going to make up bad stories about him that never happened? Or is the hatred just so blinding that we don't really remember and just assume everything associated with Samuelsson was negative and terrible?

Simmer there, Chief. I did say I didn't have quotes and I didn't state is as undisputable fact. It was my opinion. My wording probably wasn't the best. I just recall him being somewhat bitter that the Wings didn't do more to keep him. If I was totally off base on that, my apologies. I don't hate Sammy at all, and I had nothing bad to say about his first stint here. Your reply was a total overreaction. While some might like his honesty, my opinion is he makes himself look like a DB more than often than not with his "honesty". The Team Sweden thing, blaming Alex Burrows for the Stanley Cup collapse, criticizing Vancouver management. It isn't like he doesn't have a history. I don't have any problem with anyone leaving for more money or a better opportunity.

As far as the contract being fair market value and deserved, I beg to differ. When he signed with Vancouver, he was coming off two stellar playoff performances and yet he signed for less money with the Canucks (3/7.5 and no NTC) How he's was worth more last summer, coming off injury plaqued seasons, 3 years older, in his mid 30's with all the uncertainty over the CBA and the unknown salary cap, is a mystery to me. Again, maybe I'm not remembering correctly, but was he a highly coveted FA?

FWIW, I do not believe that Nyquist can go to GR. He would have to clear waivers. Same goes for TT and Andersson. Also the Wings have two too many players. They have to shed 2 players, in addition to salary. I don't have an issue with losing Emmerton, but at 29 and under a million dollar cap hit, and a right handed shot, Patrick Eaves is far more of an asset than Samuelsson. I agree with the notion that he's a true 4th liner and his speed and PK skills make him valuable.

Holland has made far more good moves than bad, but this one was lousy from the start and his injuries have only made it look that much worse.

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Simmer there, Chief. I did say I didn't have quotes and I didn't state is as undisputable fact. It was my opinion. My wording probably wasn't the best. I just recall him being somewhat bitter that the Wings didn't do more to keep him. If I was totally off base on that, my apologies. I don't hate Sammy at all, and I had nothing bad to say about his first stint here. Your reply was a total overreaction. While some might like his honesty, my opinion is he makes himself look like a DB more than often than not with his "honesty". The Team Sweden thing, blaming Alex Burrows for the Stanley Cup collapse, criticizing Vancouver management. It isn't like he doesn't have a history. I don't have any problem with anyone leaving for more money or a better opportunity.

As far as the contract being fair market value and deserved, I beg to differ. When he signed with Vancouver, he was coming off two stellar playoff performances and yet he signed for less money with the Canucks (3/7.5 and no NTC) How he's was worth more last summer, coming off injury plaqued seasons, 3 years older, in his mid 30's with all the uncertainty over the CBA and the unknown salary cap, is a mystery to me. Again, maybe I'm not remembering correctly, but was he a highly coveted FA?

FWIW, I do not believe that Nyquist can go to GR. He would have to clear waivers. Same goes for TT and Andersson. Also the Wings have two too many players. They have to shed 2 players, in addition to salary. I don't have an issue with losing Emmerton, but at 29 and under a million dollar cap hit, and a right handed shot, Patrick Eaves is far more of an asset than Samuelsson. I agree with the notion that he's a true 4th liner and his speed and PK skills make him valuable.

Holland has made far more good moves than bad, but this one was lousy from the start and his injuries have only made it look that much worse.

I agree with most of what you said except the part about market value. Last year, when Samuelsson was signed, there was a very thin FA crop. This raised up prices for those who were available. I agree that, based on his previous season of injury and age, he didn't warrant the contract, but that's not market value; that's real worth. Market value takes into account supply and demand - and last year: supply was low + demand was high = inflated salaries

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Simmer there, Chief. I did say I didn't have quotes and I didn't state is as undisputable fact. It was my opinion. My wording probably wasn't the best. I just recall him being somewhat bitter that the Wings didn't do more to keep him. If I was totally off base on that, my apologies. I don't hate Sammy at all, and I had nothing bad to say about his first stint here. Your reply was a total overreaction. While some might like his honesty, my opinion is he makes himself look like a DB more than often than not with his "honesty". The Team Sweden thing, blaming Alex Burrows for the Stanley Cup collapse, criticizing Vancouver management. It isn't like he doesn't have a history. I don't have any problem with anyone leaving for more money or a better opportunity.

It was your opinion? Are you saying that there was something he said or did upon leaving that is open for interpretation? And, you interpret that to be "nasty and bitter," but others may not? That scenario aside, I don't see how your opinion comes into play in this particular situation. Either he left Detroit on nasty and bitter terms or he didn't. I gave you an opportunity to support your statement with a source and you are unable to do that. So, let's agree then that your 'opinion' was incorrect and that Sammy did not leave on "bitter and nasty" terms, but rather for more money and a better opportunity. And, since you've said you have no problem with leaving for those reasons, we have no more discussion.

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Simmer there, Chief. I did say I didn't have quotes and I didn't state is as undisputable fact. It was my opinion. My wording probably wasn't the best. I just recall him being somewhat bitter that the Wings didn't do more to keep him. If I was totally off base on that, my apologies. I don't hate Sammy at all, and I had nothing bad to say about his first stint here. Your reply was a total overreaction. While some might like his honesty, my opinion is he makes himself look like a DB more than often than not with his "honesty". The Team Sweden thing, blaming Alex Burrows for the Stanley Cup collapse, criticizing Vancouver management. It isn't like he doesn't have a history. I don't have any problem with anyone leaving for more money or a better opportunity.

As far as the contract being fair market value and deserved, I beg to differ. When he signed with Vancouver, he was coming off two stellar playoff performances and yet he signed for less money with the Canucks (3/7.5 and no NTC) How he's was worth more last summer, coming off injury plaqued seasons, 3 years older, in his mid 30's with all the uncertainty over the CBA and the unknown salary cap, is a mystery to me. Again, maybe I'm not remembering correctly, but was he a highly coveted FA?

FWIW, I do not believe that Nyquist can go to GR. He would have to clear waivers. Same goes for TT and Andersson. Also the Wings have two too many players. They have to shed 2 players, in addition to salary. I don't have an issue with losing Emmerton, but at 29 and under a million dollar cap hit, and a right handed shot, Patrick Eaves is far more of an asset than Samuelsson. I agree with the notion that he's a true 4th liner and his speed and PK skills make him valuable.

Holland has made far more good moves than bad, but this one was lousy from the start and his injuries have only made it look that much worse.

Nyquist is still waiver exempt until he plays literally 2 more nhl games.

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Samuelsson just isn't what we need, on any level. If we want skill, we should go for Skill. If we want a fourth-liner with physical chops and high-energy, we should go for that. If we want a 35-year-old who just...is, then, great, we've got Samuelsson. mehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

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Think of it this way:

If Samuelsson weren't on our team, would you all be like, "You know who we really need? Samuelsson." "Hey, that's a great idea!" "I'd be down with that!"

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It was your opinion? Are you saying that there was something he said or did upon leaving that is open for interpretation? And, you interpret that to be "nasty and bitter," but others may not? That scenario aside, I don't see how your opinion comes into play in this particular situation. Either he left Detroit on nasty and bitter terms or he didn't. I gave you an opportunity to support your statement with a source and you are unable to do that. So, let's agree then that your 'opinion' was incorrect and that Sammy did not leave on "bitter and nasty" terms, but rather for more money and a better opportunity. And, since you've said you have no problem with leaving for those reasons, we have no more discussion.

Speaking of bitter and nasty.....Dude,I gave my opinion on Samuelsson. It wasn't based on any deep hatred for him. I had thought I remembered him being kind of pissy when he left that the Wings hadn't done more to sign him. I apologized if I misspoke. I have neither the time nor the inclination to search for quotes. If you do, knock yourself out. He's a decent player that I thought Holland overpaid for in terms of years, salary and NTC. I'm hoping the Wings find a way to rid themselves of him based solely on his ability to play or lack there of. I'd rather see others play ahead of him. Do I like his "honesty"? No. But had he been healthy and contributed this season and had the younger players flopped, I could deal with his personality a lot easier. I didn't like the Tootoo signing either and hope they can find a way to get rid of him also. But I love what he's done off the ice with charity work with youth suicides, etc. It doesn't mean I want the Wings to keep him because of that.

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Speaking of bitter and nasty.....Dude,I gave my opinion on Samuelsson. It wasn't based on any deep hatred for him. I had thought I remembered him being kind of pissy when he left that the Wings hadn't done more to sign him. I apologized if I misspoke. I have neither the time nor the inclination to search for quotes. If you do, knock yourself out. He's a decent player that I thought Holland overpaid for in terms of years, salary and NTC. I'm hoping the Wings find a way to rid themselves of him based solely on his ability to play or lack there of. I'd rather see others play ahead of him. Do I like his "honesty"? No. But had he been healthy and contributed this season and had the younger players flopped, I could deal with his personality a lot easier. I didn't like the Tootoo signing either and hope they can find a way to get rid of him also. But I love what he's done off the ice with charity work with youth suicides, etc. It doesn't mean I want the Wings to keep him because of that.

Yeah, I was saying that it wasn't really your opinion... it was something you had misremembered (if I can steal a word from Roger Clemens). There's no need to apologize - I'm not offended or anything, I was just taking up the argument because I believed what you said to be false.

I guess I come to Samuelsson's defense because I loathe the whole 'whipping boy' concept here. I think people feed off of each other's negativity on a certain player or subject and it gets out of control. It is almost as if your dislike (and the board's general collective dislike) for him led you to create the scenario of his bitter and nasty departure from Detroit (which didn't really happen) in your mind.

I know Detroit has 16 forwards and 2 have to go.... but why do we have to tie guys to the proverbial whipping post in the mean time? We're all going to cheer just as much when Sammy or Tootoo (or Emmerton or Eaves or Bertuzzi) scores a goal next season as we are with anyone else, aren't we? Of course, the whipping boy thing goes on during the season too, so..... I guess I'm just fighting a losing battle here. Never mind.

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With is injury situation, Babcock has seemed to be a bit frustrated with him, along the lines of maybe not believing he's injured or as seriously injured as he says.

I don't think anyone really beleives he is injured, at least not to the extent he is claiming. He was cleared by the doctors, and seemed to just want that extra million dollars...

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Our 4th line has been awful for several seasons. Look at the series against Anaheim, where their 4th line was a huge advantage for them. Ours did nothing in that series. Teams that win the Cup typically have a 4th line that contributes greatly throughout the run.

It shouldn't just be a place to stack leftover players. It should have identity and purpose, namely an energy line that sparks the teams and has guys with grit, size and preferably fighting ability. A 4th line of Miller-Helm-Samuelsson isn't much of a 4th line.

Abdelkader-Helm/Andersson-Tootoo is much more of a 4th line I'd like to see, with a healthy Tuzzi on the 1st with Z and Dats.

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You mean the one season in the last several he missed a chunk of games? This isn't Colaiacovo or Lecavalier who miss 15-20 games a season. He'd been pretty consistently over 70 games a season before he was traded to Florida, hurt his groin, then tried coming back too early and reinjuring it.

I wouldn't call in one season. He basically missed a whole season last year, missed almost half the season the year before, 7 games the year before that, 8 games the year before that.

I wouldn't look at playing 70 games a year as a good thing, that means you are missing 12 games a year (15%). If you look at his career (ignoring his first couple where he bounced between the NHL and AHL), he's played 10 seasons in the league, only 2 of those seasons did he miss less than 5 games. 3 seasons he missed between 5-10 games and 5 seasons he missed 10+ (a few of which were signficantly more than 10 games).

Are there more injury prone guys? Sure, but pointing to someone that might be more injury prone doesn't make him not an injury concern....espcecially with him turning 37 in a few months.

Also, just for the record, Lecavalier missing games is more of the exception rather than the rule (it just happens to be more recent). If you look at his stats, he has often played 80+ games a year.

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I wouldn't call in one season. He basically missed a whole season last year, missed almost half the season the year before, 7 games the year before that, 8 games the year before that.

I wouldn't look at playing 70 games a year as a good thing, that means you are missing 12 games a year (15%). If you look at his career (ignoring his first couple where he bounced between the NHL and AHL), he's played 10 seasons in the league, only 2 of those seasons did he miss less than 5 games. 3 seasons he missed between 5-10 games and 5 seasons he missed 10+ (a few of which were signficantly more than 10 games).

Are there more injury prone guys? Sure, but pointing to someone that might be more injury prone doesn't make him not an injury concern....espcecially with him turning 37 in a few months.

Also, just for the record, Lecavalier missing games is more of the exception rather than the rule (it just happens to be more recent). If you look at his stats, he has often played 80+ games a year.

Datsyuk has only played one full season, 3 of 80 or more games and one with 79 games. in the last 2 and a shortened seasons he has missed 39 games. I will take Datsyuk for as many (or as little games) as he is capable of playing. No I am not comparing Sammy to Pasha, I am simply saying a lot of players lose games every year to injury. It is a physically grueling sport and not too many players can do that for 10-15-20 years without missing more than a handful of games a year to injury.

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You mean the one season in the last several he missed a chunk of games? This isn't Colaiacovo or Lecavalier who miss 15-20 games a season. He'd been pretty consistently over 70 games a season before he was traded to Florida, hurt his groin, then tried coming back too early and reinjuring it.

I wouldn't call in one season. He basically missed a whole season last year, missed almost half the season the year before, 7 games the year before that, 8 games the year before that.

I wouldn't look at playing 70 games a year as a good thing, that means you are missing 12 games a year (15%). If you look at his career (ignoring his first couple where he bounced between the NHL and AHL), he's played 10 seasons in the league, only 2 of those seasons did he miss less than 5 games. 3 seasons he missed between 5-10 games and 5 seasons he missed 10+ (a few of which were signficantly more than 10 games).

Are there more injury prone guys? Sure, but pointing to someone that might be more injury prone doesn't make him not an injury concern....espcecially with him turning 37 in a few months.

Also, just for the record, Lecavalier missing games is more of the exception rather than the rule (it just happens to be more recent). If you look at his stats, he has often played 80+ games a year.

10 games a year is acceptable. Some players are just more prone to missing a couple games here and there.

Lecavalier has missed 20% of his games the last 3 seasons. That's not missing a ton one year and being fairly healthy the other 2. That's a trend.

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