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The Greek

Mantha signed to ELC

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he plays the same game as Shanny and Perry. Skates, shoots and fights. None of those guys were or are known for lots of hits. Not their job. their job is to put the puck in the net. that being said he is just 19. Yzerman didn't learn to play D until his late 20's when Bowman threatened to trade him.

Shanny and Perry are top flight power forwards. Mantha has been exclusivley described as a pure goal scorer, or sniper if you will. "When a player with a big strong frame like Mantha doesn't use his size on the boards consistently it raises a red flag."

Shanny and Perry are not supposed to be hitters you're correct there, but they were still physical guys with a lot of PIMs, and at least Perry (I don't have the stats for Shanny) averages about a hit a game. Last season Mantha only had 3 fights, so I don't know why you think he will be dropping the gloves all the time in the near future.

He's a Daniel Sedin type. Fast, smart, talented, not physical.

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Question: Is this domination good for his progression as a player? There comes a point where being the big fish in the small pond isn't always good.

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oddball_zps284ce1ea.jpg

The reason I ask is because I believe the CHL/AHL transfer agreement is in bad need of revision because it causes situations like this. Mantha would be, in my mind, better served playing in the AHL where he can play against better talent and adjust to a game against adults with more of an NHL pace.

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Guest Crymson   
Guest Crymson

Question: Is this domination good for his progression as a player? There comes a point where being the big fish in the small pond isn't always good.

I'd be surprised to find out that any current star who came out of the Canadian junior leagues did NOT produce through the roof.

In other words, no.

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The reason I ask is because I believe the CHL/AHL transfer agreement is in bad need of revision because it causes situations like this. Mantha would be, in my mind, better served playing in the AHL where he can play against better talent and adjust to a game against adults with more of an NHL pace.

That would be better and I wish he could be playing in the AHL right now as well, but I don't think his progress is being hampered too much. He still had to improve on his competitive pace and so far he's answering that well. Now he just has to keep it up until the season's over and bring it over into the AHL for the remainder of that season. Now if he was stuck in the Q for another season, then yes I think that'd be a waste.

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That would be better and I wish he could be playing in the AHL right now as well, but I don't think his progress is being hampered too much. He still had to improve on his competitive pace and so far he's answering that well. Now he just has to keep it up until the season's over and bring it over into the AHL for the remainder of that season. Now if he was stuck in the Q for another season, then yes I think that'd be a waste.

Probably for the best anyway. The griffins would be over the 50 man limit with him, and I would absolutely hate to see a guy like nyquist have to go to the nhl so a top prospect can join the ahl...

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he plays the same game as Shanny and Perry. Skates, shoots and fights. None of those guys were or are known for lots of hits. Not their job. their job is to put the puck in the net. that being said he is just 19. Yzerman didn't learn to play D until his late 20's when Bowman threatened to trade him.

Posts like this remind me how old I am. I actually remember Shanny in his prime. He was everything you could ask from a player. He hit a lot, fought, had a good speed, nice dangles, good vision and in general was a player any opposing team was afraid in many different ways. There were so few guys like him since then and actually only Bert in his prime is comparable (perhaps, Getzlaf of 2008-2010, Neely as well but that was earlier). If Mantha could be half of a player Shanny was that would be a steal.

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I'd be surprised to find out that any current star who came out of the Canadian junior leagues did NOT produce through the roof.

In other words, no.

There has to be a point in which someone has to say "alright what is this kid doing here?!"...43 in 17 is pretty close but not there yet.

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Posts like this remind me how old I am. I actually remember Shanny in his prime. He was everything you could ask from a player. He hit a lot, fought, had a good speed, nice dangles, good vision and in general was a player any opposing team was afraid in many different ways. There were so few guys like him since then and actually only Bert in his prime is comparable (perhaps, Getzlaf of 2008-2010, Neely as well but that was earlier). If Mantha could be half of a player Shanny was that would be a steal.

I remember Shanny in his prime and I'm relatively young. So don't feel too bad about that.

Shanny - in his prime - was a force to be reckoned with, just an absolute beast of a player. If the Coffey trade doesn't happen, we probably don't win either of those back-to-back Cups.

I think one of the most remarkable things about him is that he was still scoring 30-40 goals when he was way past his prime. If any one of our top scorers (so...um...Datsyuk or Zetterberg) were to score 40 goals this season, we'd call it a miracle.

As for Mantha, I'd like to see him on the Wings ASAP. Have Babs tell him that he needs to score 50 goals in his rookie season or his NHL career will be finished.

Edited by Dabura

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Guest Crymson   
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I remember Shanny in his prime and I'm relatively young. So don't feel too bad about that.

Shanny - in his pime - was a force to be reckoned with, just an absolute beast of a player. If the Coffey trade doesn't happen, we probably don't win either of those back-to-back Cups.

I think one of the most remarkable things about him is that he was still scoring 30-40 goals when he was way past his prime. If any one of our top scorers (so...um...Datsyuk or Zetterberg) were to score 40 goals this season, we'd call it a miracle.

As for Mantha, I'd like to see him on the Wings ASAP. Have Babs tell him that he needs to score 50 goals in his rookie season or his NHL career will be finished.

Shanahan was arguably at the pinnacle of his career when he joined the Red Wings. People often forget that 1996-1997 was Shanny's tenth full season in the league (counting the lockout-shortened 1995 campaign). Power forwards do not age well, and this showed with Shanahan. He continued scoring---albeit not at quite as torrid a pace---but the intensity of his physical game decreased steadily; by the time the lockout rolled around, he was more a sniper than a power forward. In retrospect, of course, this this was the correct move for him; his body would have given out on him far earlier had he done otherwise.

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Shanahan was arguably at the pinnacle of his career when he joined the Red Wings. People often forget that 1996-1997 was Shanny's tenth full season in the league (counting the lockout-shortened 1995 campaign). Power forwards do not age well, and this showed with Shanahan. He continued scoring---albeit not at quite as torrid a pace---but the intensity of his physical game decreased steadily; by the time the lockout rolled around, he was more a sniper than a power forward. In retrospect, of course, this this was the correct move for him; his body would have given out on him far earlier had he done otherwise.

Yep.

I guess the implied point I was making, re: his later days, is that he'd successfully changed his game, the type of player he was - which is a fairly impressive accomplishment, especially when you consider just how effective he really was as a power forward and then as a sniper.

I see Iginla trying to make essentially the same transition, and it's not going quite as well for him. And that makes me appreciate Shanny's ttly mad skillz that much more.

Now, Mantha. I don't know if it's really fair to use PS (Prime Shanahan) as a projection for Mantha. The pure scoring ability seems to be there, but the snarl and "compete" that PS had...I don't see any traces of that in Mantha's game right now. Now, admittedly, I haven't seen a whole lot of Mantha. But I think it's fair to say that, at this point in time, SS (Sniper Shanahan) is a more realistic comparison-projection.

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Guest Crymson   
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Yep.

I guess the implied point I was making, re: his later days, is that he'd successfully changed his game, the type of player he was - which is a fairly impressive accomplishment, especially when you consider just how effective he really was as a power forward and then as a sniper.

I see Iginla trying to make essentially the same transition, and it's not going quite as well for him. And that makes me appreciate Shanny's ttly mad skillz that much more.

Now, Mantha. I don't know if it's really fair to use PS (Prime Shanahan) as a projection for Mantha. The pure scoring ability seems to be there, but the snarl and "compete" that PS had...I don't see any traces of that in Mantha's game right now. Now, admittedly, I haven't seen a whole lot of Mantha. But I think it's fair to say that, at this point in time, SS (Sniper Shanahan) is a more realistic comparison-projection.

He may be more of a Michael Ryder type, albeit significantly larger.

Edited by Crymson

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Guest mjtm77   
Guest mjtm77

I have watched allot of hockey in the QMJHL, WHL, OHL.

Sure Mantha is putting up allot of points and killing the score sheet but keep the following in mind.

1. He is almost a year older then his fellow draft class. He got cut off by 1 day!

2. He is playing in the QMJHL which is the weakest league in the CHL by far. Allot of players light it up there and are a complete disappointment come the National Hockey League. Scouts are weary when drafting players from the QMJHL.

I hope just like all of you guys that we have a stud but when I watch him play his game just looks "meh" really struggles with playing hard. To me its almost like "as long as he scores his goals then he doesn't have top compete"

I see allot of Johan Franzen in his game now (floating around). If he Booms we could see a Thomas Vanek type player. If he busts something along the lines of how Michael Ryder plays now days.

Edit- Pick I really like is Hunter Shinkaruk

Edited by mjtm77

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Guest Crymson   
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Yeah, I'm not so sure Mantha is the "real deal." Doesn't everyone tear up the juniors?

Nope.

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Yeah, I'm not so sure Mantha is the "real deal." Doesn't everyone tear up the juniors?

The ones who go on to have NHL careers, typically. Some of the top scorers fizzle out in the AHL, and some of those that make it to the NHL fizzle out there. What's promising about this kid is how immensely he seems to be tearing it up. As of right now, he has 43 points (20g, 23a) in 17 games. The guy who is second place in the league is at 33 points in 20 games. As Crymson mentioned earlier "#1 overall pick Nathan MacKinnon had 75 points in 44 games last season in the Q, and #3 Drouin had 103 points in 50 games. Mantha is on pace for 126 points if he plays 50 games."

It definitely doesn't guarantee that he is going to be a star at the NHL level or even succeed as a third liner. That has yet to be seen. But what it does show is that at the very least, Mantha has the potential to really be a difference maker for the Red Wings. And besides, when you're a Wings fan who hasn't seen a top 10 pick in 100 years, these kind of players are all we have to get excited about.

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Guest mjtm77   
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If everyone did, then by theory, no one would be tearing it up. But not too many players get 43 points in 17 games.

The level of hockey in the Q is substantially lower.

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Nope.

If everyone did, then by theory, no one would be tearing it up. But not too many players get 43 points in 17 games.

Yeah, but only about 5% of major junior players make it to the show.

And obviously a substantially higher percentage of that 5% would have torn it up compared to the remaining 95% of major junior hockey players.

EDIT: As for the topic--Mantha strikes me as a Jeff Carter type of player. Someone who can score a lot of goals--but doesn't really bring any other dimensions.

Edited by Nevermind

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Yeah, but only about 5% of major junior players make it to the show.

And obviously a substantially higher percentage of that 5% would have torn it up compared to the remaining 95% of major junior hockey players.

EDIT: As for the topic--Mantha strikes me as a Jeff Carter type of player. Someone who can score a lot of goals--but doesn't really bring any other dimensions.

Which is something that we need desperately on this team=)

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Yeah, I'm not so sure Mantha is the "real deal." Doesn't everyone tear up the juniors?

Maltby was a 50 goal scorer in juniors :D

As far as Mantha, I really don't see him projecting out as a power forward. Much better chance that Martin Frk becomes the Wings' power forward of the future than Mantha.

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Maltby was a 50 goal scorer in juniors :D

As far as Mantha, I really don't see him projecting out as a power forward. Much better chance that Martin Frk becomes the Wings' power forward of the future than Mantha.

I'm hoping Jurco can be that guy for us.

Also, did you know Maltby was a 50-goal scorer in juniors?

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