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#1 Dabura

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 04:11 PM

Franzen + Smith (+ something?) for something good.

 

Would you do that for, say, a really high-end defenseman? Maybe, say, an Ekman-Larsson? (The Coyotes need a goal-scorer like no one's business, and they're well aware of what Franzen can do.)

 

Or would there have to be more coming back the other way, like a defenseman and a forward, e.g. Edler and Kassian?

 

Discuss.


Edited by Dabura, 13 October 2013 - 04:13 PM.

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#2 GMRwings1983

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 04:27 PM

The problem is, we still need a real winger who can score goals.  You trade Franzen, and you're stuck with not only Abby on the top 6, but also a Cleary.  We need a legit top 6 winger who can score.  Franzen is too inconsistent for that.  

 

To me, that's our number one priority.  Even above getting a top defenseman.  


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#3 Dabura

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 04:39 PM

The problem is, we still need a real winger who can score goals.  You trade Franzen, and you're stuck with not only Abby on the top 6, but also a Cleary.  We need a legit top 6 winger who can score.  Franzen is too inconsistent for that.  

 

To me, that's our number one priority.  Even above getting a top defenseman.  

 

Dustin Brown might be my (pipe)dream pick-up. Not happening, of course. But, point is, I know what you're saying. I can dig it.

 

Do you think we could move Franzen and Smith (and a pick/prospect?) for a scoring winger? Who would you like for us to land?


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#4 marcaractac

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 04:56 PM

I don't think it is wise to trade Smith at this point unless it is a deal that cannot be passed up. Trading Franzen is an AWFUL idea, as it can screw the Wings down the road regardless when he retires. Buying out Franzen is the only option when it comes to getting rid of him. 

 

Pretty much no choice but to be stuck with Franzen for this season. His production matches his cap hit, so that isn't my complain about him. I just can't stand his lack of heart. 

 

I do see Holland making a move or two at the deadline now that we are very well stocked in the prospect pool compared to the past. I don't see us making any big splash, but a Stuart-type move is definitely a possibility in my opinion.

 

When it comes down to it, it is way too soon to start making moves. This roster will start to gel, and the Wings will start rolling at some point. Injuries will no doubt hit at some point as well, giving the young guns a chance to show their worth. Not worried at all about our forwards going into the playoffs. I think the D will be fine as well if they keep building off of last year. But trading for a good shut down dman towards the end of the season couldn't hurt for the playoff run. People forget how awful Ericsson was there for a couple of seasons. Smith will be fine in time. Knee jerk reactions are the reason why Philly is in the state they are in. 


The problem is, we still need a real winger who can score goals.  You trade Franzen, and you're stuck with not only Abby on the top 6, but also a Cleary.  We need a legit top 6 winger who can score.  Franzen is too inconsistent for that.  

 

To me, that's our number one priority.  Even above getting a top defenseman.  

 

People hate to hear it, but this legit top 6 winger everyone wants so badly is gonna end up being someone already in the organization. It's just the way the league is today.


 

Dustin Brown might be my (pipe)dream pick-up. Not happening, of course. But, point is, I know what you're saying. I can dig it.

 

Do you think we could move Franzen and Smith (and a pick/prospect?) for a scoring winger? Who would you like for us to land?

 

If Smith were moved, we'd have a huge depth problem on D. A team needs depth to go all the way. Get rid of Smith, and one injury turns this team into a first round bust. Smith makes boneheaded plays, sure. But he was always a free wheeling offensive dman. Learning defense at the NHL level is gonna take him time. Bottom line, we need him. Only way he is traded if it is part of a package to land a legit dman. Not a forward.



#5 T.Low

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 05:03 PM

The reason Holland is going to do it is simple. He'll plug Nyquist in for Franzen and Edler in for Quincey but as 3-4 D with DeKeyser. .

Nyquist will make up for 20 or more of Mules goals, while the rest are made up for across-the-board due to Edler's puck moving prowess.

Zetterberg.Datsyuk Bertuzzi
Nyquist Wiess Alfie
Abby Andy Tatar
Miller Glendenning Cleary
Sammy Kassian

Kronner Ericsson
Edler DeKeyser
Kindle Lashoff

Have Kassian learn from Bertuzzi while Bert's still here.

#6 Dabura

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 05:04 PM

For the the record, I'm a big believer in Smith. And I like Franzen better than most here. More than anything, I'm just terribly bored, and prone to daydreaming. (Screw reality, man.)

 

Good points, marcaractac. Basically what you're saying is, we need to move Franzen and Smith - but only for a defenseman. I'm with you. ;)


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#7 Crymson

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 05:04 PM

Franzen + Smith (+ something?) for something good.

 

Would you do that for, say, a really high-end defenseman? Maybe, say, an Ekman-Larsson? (The Coyotes need a goal-scorer like no one's business, and they're well aware of what Franzen can do.)

 

Or would there have to be more coming back the other way, like a defenseman and a forward, e.g. Edler and Kassian?

 

Discuss.

 

It will take far more than that to pry OEL away from Phoenix. He's set to become a premiere defenseman in this league. Good luck getting Edler and Kassian out of that package, too; the Canucks are high on Kassian, and Edler is on the top pairing over there.

 

Besides, as GMR has mentioned, we'd still be down one scoring winger.



#8 marcaractac

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 05:16 PM

For the the record, I'm a big believer in Smith. And I like Franzen better than most here. More than anything, I'm just terribly bored, and prone to daydreaming. (Screw reality, man.)

 

Good points, marcaractac. Basically what you're saying is, we need to move Franzen and Smith - but only for a defenseman. I'm with you. ;)

 

 

Well, Franzen will only be off this team with a buy out. It will be cap suicide to trade him. Smith goes nowhere unless there was an offer just too good for Holland to pass up. By no means do I think Holland will be shopping either of them at any point. 

 

If anything, I'd say they will trade picks and prospects at the deadline for a legit top 4 dman, which would allow them to move Quincey. On our back end, he is the only one who just doesn't seem like a fit in the long term plans. At least I hope not. 

 

Kronwall, Ericsson, and Kindl have al at some point had us rolling our eyes with boneheaded plays. Now most of us couldn't picture our defence without them. It will be no different with #2. It'll just take time.Patience seems to be LGW's worst enemy  :lol:


 

It will take far more than that to pry OEL away from Phoenix. He's set to become a premiere defenseman in this league. Good luck getting Edler and Kassian out of that package, too; the Canucks are high on Kassian, and Edler is on the top pairing over there.

 

Besides, as GMR has mentioned, we'd still be down one scoring winger.

 

Agreed. You're looking at 2 high end prospects and a high first rounder just to get their attention when it comes to OEL. Probably 2 first rounders for a team like the Wings. You'd be looking at the likes of Sproul, DeKeyser and a 1st just to get their attention, and it would take a lot more than that in the end. Their socks would have to be knocked off. This is a guy who is going to be a top dman in this league for a long, long time. 

 

Think along the lines of what it would take to land a young Lidstrom in a trade


Edited by marcaractac, 13 October 2013 - 05:22 PM.


#9 Crymson

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 05:34 PM

Agreed. You're looking at 2 high end prospects and a high first rounder just to get their attention when it comes to OEL. Probably 2 first rounders for a team like the Wings. You'd be looking at the likes of Sproul, DeKeyser and a 1st just to get their attention, and it would take a lot more than that in the end. Their socks would have to be knocked off. This is a guy who is going to be a top dman in this league for a long, long time. 

 

Think along the lines of what it would take to land a young Lidstrom in a trade

 

 

Yep. It would take an offer that Phoenix would be stupid to refuse. Anything short of that would garner laughs, as #1 defensemen are much rarer even than #1 centers.



#10 T.Low

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 05:47 PM

The reason Gillis is going to do this trade is because he's actually at his wits end with Edler the same way Holland is this Franzen

Franzen will give them two legit lines and allow Burrows to move back up with the Sedins

They have cooled off on Kassian a lot, similar to how we've cooled on Smith. Both could already use fresh starts again.

Edited by T.Low, 13 October 2013 - 05:53 PM.


#11 Echolalia

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 06:06 PM

I would hang onto Smith for at least a couple more years.  Its not uncommon for D to take a few years to really get comfortable in the NHL (see: Kindl, Ericsson)  Smith is a rookie, having played in only 52 regular season games up to this point.  He's going to make rookie mistakes.  But I think his potential down the road far outweighs what the Wings could get in return for him right now.

 

Franzen is frustrating, because he could truly be an elite forward if he pushed himself every night, but it clearly doesn't happen.  It becomes even more frustrating when we look back to see that the Wings ended up with Franzen instead of Hossa, who has something of a reputation for being a hard worker.  Even still, Franzen's cap hit is under 4M and his production for that cost is a reasonable value.  Ultimately, I don't know whether that money would be more effective is spent on another player.  If we traded for him using Franzen's cap hit, this new player might give it his all every night, but it likely will still amount to about whatever half-ass Franzen puts up now.

 

In short; stand pat.



#12 T.Low

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 06:25 PM

I would hang onto Smith for at least a couple more years.  Its not uncommon for D to take a few years to really get comfortable in the NHL (see: Kindl, Ericsson)  Smith is a rookie, having played in only 52 regular season games up to this point.  He's going to make rookie mistakes.  But I think his potential down the road far outweighs what the Wings could get in return for him right now.
 
Franzen is frustrating, because he could truly be an elite forward if he pushed himself every night, but it clearly doesn't happen.  It becomes even more frustrating when we look back to see that the Wings ended up with Franzen instead of Hossa, who has something of a reputation for being a hard worker.  Even still, Franzen's cap hit is under 4M and his production for that cost is a reasonable value.  Ultimately, I don't know whether that money would be more effective is spent on another player.  If we traded for him using Franzen's cap hit, this new player might give it his all every night, but it likely will still amount to about whatever half-ass Franzen puts up now.
 
In short; stand pat.

Can't afford to stand pat while the clock on Datsyuk and Zetterberg is ticking, Especially with the logjam keeping Nyquist and Tatar benched.
Move Franzen and Smith now and we will effectively replace Franzen with Nyquist and upgrade Smith with Edler while getting potentially a solid power forward that can take over when Bert retires And again with the logjam upfront, there's no need to depend on Kassian to contribute right away. If he does, it's a bonus

Nyquist makes Franzen obsolete, and Edler significantly upgrades our D and O.

No sense in waiting for Smith to develop. Our future is

Ericsson DeKeyser
Sproul Oullette
Lashoff Kindl
Almquist
. Edit: so if he is not getting it done now, no need to keep him around for the future.

This is that one move we need to really unleash the potential on this team.

Gillis is in the same position. He can't afford to stand pat while the clock on the Sedins is ticking.

Edited by T.Low, 13 October 2013 - 06:55 PM.


#13 T.Low

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 06:32 PM

 

 
Besides, as GMR has mentioned, we'd still be down one scoring winger.


Nyquist and Tatar are our scoring wingers: they will more than make up for Franzens goals.

Edited by T.Low, 13 October 2013 - 06:32 PM.


#14 GMRwings1983

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 07:00 PM

Nyquist and Tatar are our scoring wingers: they will more than make up for Franzens goals.

 

From GR?  


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#15 T.Low

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 07:06 PM

Seriously, is that the only line you read?

#16 dirtydangles

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 07:09 PM

I wouldn't mind selling "high" on smith. If he doesn't turn things around then we will be losing value on him. We have loads of D prospects that can fill the void as our D won't be turning over too much for quite a while.

 

Franzen is amnesty buyout material after this season - we can't just trade him off and have him retire early - this will screw us capwise. 

 

The only real "trade-bait" we have would be a tatar or nyquist in combination with smith. And I would want a pretty good player in return. As for the "power forward issue" we could always see what mantha can do for 9 games...



#17 luvmnger

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 07:26 PM

right now is the time to move players to struggling teams....NYR...Buffalo...New jersey....jets...philly..etc.

 

emmerton, franzen..tootoo....sammy...smith...even lashoff...can be moved for crucial pieces.

 

vanek....endstrom....streit...bogo....e.kane.....come to mind.

 

but the pot would have to be sweet!

 

10 more games....and the desperate teams will come down in price.

 

but ...some will slip away.

 

i am a huge OEL fan...but the kids not going anywhere until contract time.


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#18 Z Winged Dangler

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 07:48 PM

Franzen + Smith (+ something?) for something good.
 
Would you do that for, say, a really high-end defenseman? Maybe, say, an Ekman-Larsson? (The Coyotes need a goal-scorer like no one's business, and they're well aware of what Franzen can do.)
 
Or would there have to be more coming back the other way, like a defenseman and a forward, e.g. Edler and Kassian?
 
Discuss.


Last year hell no. This year hell yes. I'm slowly falling off the Smith bandwagon cause he got no better over the summer and i loathe Franzen....he's a lazy mule that's for sure. OEL is legit. So yes please.

This offseason will determine whether Ken Holland should still be employed with the Wings organization.

 

Please put Smith on the Power Play!


#19 marcaractac

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 08:55 PM

I wish people would see how awful of an idea trading Franzen would be. It would screw the team in the long run



#20 GMRwings1983

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 09:16 PM

I wish people would see how awful of an idea trading Franzen would be. It would screw the team in the long run

 

Not at all.  Just depends on what we get in return.  

 

And is Franzen even part of the long run?  He's not exactly 25.  


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