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wings87

Quincey

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I want to make a thread called "How Much Better Would This Team Be Without Kyle Quincey?" We'd use fancy stats to prove that Quincey has singlehandedly cost us 10 games and provided absolutely nothing positive.

RedWang and BadgerBob like this

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I did understand a trade for Quincey,but to give him an extension is a way to hard core even for the Ken's we like our team approach

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I hated him as soon as they traded back for him. Can't stand this guy at all. I'll be so much happier when him, Cleary, and Sammy are no longer on this team!

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Then how do you explain the Cleary signing and giving Sammy a no-trade clause?

For that matter, trading Quincey for a 1st was pretty incompetent. For a GM that always talks about not overpaying, he overpaid for Quincey.

Not incompent - He just doesn't have a crystal ball.

People say Quincey was actually quite good in Colorado - and for a team that lost Rafalski, knew they were going to lose Stuart, and possibly Lidstrom, we were kind of desperate to fill out our D. The fact that Quincey was familiar with our system and organization, fairly young, (and, yes, apparently was good when not in red and white) meant that he looked ideal.

Sammy was signed in the year that we thought we had a chance at Parise/Suter. Missed out and nobody was really left except, but we needed some help - Enter Sammy. He also played better elsewhere and was familiar with the system. Anyone who's watched Weiss's struggles should appreciate the value of familiarity - It's not just the sense of loyalty that people criticize Holland for. No crystal ball to see that Sammy would miss almost all of last year. I've read in a number of places (Malik for one I think, but too late to search) that Sammy doesn't have this fabled NTC - his apparently is the type where he gives a list of teams he wouldn't go to.

Can't really defend the Cleary signing, but he did produce in the playoffs last year.

Not saying all Holland's decisions have turned out perfect, but if you criticize, I believe you have to make an attempt to remember the circumstances of the decision.

Edited by PavelValerievichDatsyuk

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Quincey>Kindl, Lashoff

If we can get him signed to a short deal under 2M per year it's a great deal. He can play 20+ minutes and is big and young. He makes dumb plays here and there but he's not as bad as people make him out to be.

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The Sammy signing wasn's stupid until this year. I see the logic, nobody could've predicted his injury last season or his jerk move regarding the buyout.

I think Quincey is done here. I wish we could get Stuart back. But without a lot of free agent D I'm worried Holland will have to re-sign Q. I think Kindl and Quincey are both expendable at this point. We need another top 4 D unless Smith continues to improve to that level.

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Quincey>Kindl, Lashoff

If we can get him signed to a short deal under 2M per year it's a great deal. He can play 20+ minutes and is big and young. He makes dumb plays here and there but he's not as bad as people make him out to be.

Yea a guy that is responsible for losing us 3 games single-handily, sports a -15, turns over the puck everywhere under pressure and doesn't contribute anything offensively is not as bad as people make him out to be.

I'm guessing you missed the sarcasm emoticon ?

BadgerBob and Z Winged Dangler like this

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I think it's irrelevant what the Avs will want.

Irrelevant?

I get the sense that he left his heart in Colorado. It seems like whenever I read something about him in the press, there's some mention of how he has good friends on the Avs and how he practices and works out with them in the offseason, or something like that. And, frankly, he was much better (or, at least, more effective) (or, at least, not as terrible) as an Av.

So, let's say Quincey hits the market. (It's probably a 50/50 call at this point.) Joe Sakic gives him a call.

"Well, Kyle, you know we've got an up and coming team, a lot of firepower up front. But where we really think we can improve is on the back end. That's where you come in. We'd like you to consider coming back, Kyle. We'd like you to consider coming home."

Hell, I almost want to be an Av just from reading that! :w00t2:

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Then how do you explain the Cleary signing and giving Sammy a no-trade clause?

Babcock wanted Cleary. Samuelsson was the only scorer available in a weak UFA class, and NTCs were thrown out like candy that summer.

Again, mistakes don't mean incompetence. Given your apparent belief otherwise, I don't think there's a GM anywhere with whom you'd be satisfied.

For that matter, trading Quincey for a 1st was pretty incompetent. For a GM that always talks about not overpaying, he overpaid for Quincey.

As has been noted, nobody could have anticipated that Quincey would be even remotely as bad as he has been. Indeed, hockey analysts believed it at the time to be a good move.

While it's fun to look at events in hindsight, it's important to remember at the same time that general managers don't have prescient abilities.

Irrelevant?

I get the sense that he left his heart in Colorado. It seems like whenever I read something about him in the press, there's some mention of how he has good friends on the Avs and how he practices and works out with them in the offseason, or something like that. And, frankly, he was much better (or, at least, more effective) (or, at least, not as terrible) as an Av.

It's irrelevant in the sense that he's extremely unlikely to be offered a contract extension here at all.

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Babcock wanted Cleary. Samuelsson was the only scorer available in a weak UFA class, and NTCs were thrown out like candy that summer.

Again, mistakes don't mean incompetence. Given your apparent belief otherwise, I don't think there's a GM anywhere with whom you'd be satisfied.

As has been noted, nobody could have anticipated that Quincey would be even remotely as bad as he has been. Indeed, hockey analysts believed it at the time to be a good move.

While it's fun to look at events in hindsight, it's important to remember at the same time that general managers don't have prescient abilities.

It's irrelevant in the sense that he's extremely unlikely to be offered a contract extension here at all.

People keep repeating this as if it's a fact, but I've not seen anything to indicate why the coach should bear more responsibility for signing Cleary than the GM who offered him multi-year deals in June, only to finally sign him a few months later. Babcock starting Cleary on the top line in some games doesn't mean he somehow strong armed Holland into re-signing him.

And that's going way too easy on the Sammy signing. It was a desperation move after Holland failed at his other desperation moves in the Suter/Parise sweepstakes. He gave a raise, 2 year deal and a NTC on a 35+ contract as the league was headed into CBA negotiations that he had to know would result in a much lower cap. Now he has a $3 million fourth liner who's often a healthy scratch to show for it. The only reason Sammy's deal hasn't looked even worse is because he was on LTIR for most of last season. For a guy who's the king of "the cost was too high" this was a terrible signing by Holland, which many people here predicted.

Holland did pretty well this offseason (minus Cleary) but he's paying for his big mistakes in 2012. He couldn't even give away Tootoo because of the contract he has. If this were any other GM in the league people here would be pointing and laughing at what he'd done to his team's roster this season.

wings87 likes this

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Every GM makes some bad moves, but defining Holland's abilities and track record on the basis of his 2012 signings alone pretty much means not seeing the forest for the trees.

Edited by Crymson

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Every GM makes some bad moves, but defining Holland's abilities and track record on the basis of his 2012 signings alone pretty much means not seeing the forest for the trees.

I'm definitely not defining it on 2012 alone. Holland's success over the years at keeping a championship team going is pretty undeniable. But rebuilding is a different thing, and so far his track record has been a lot spottier.

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I'm definitely not defining it on 2012 alone. Holland's success over the years at keeping a championship team going is pretty undeniable. But rebuilding is a different thing, and so far his track record has been a lot spottier.

It could have been much, much worse.

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Every GM makes some bad moves, but defining Holland's abilities and track record on the basis of his 2012 signings alone pretty much means not seeing the forest for the trees.

It's not just 2012. The departures of Lidstrom and Rafalski were anticipated for years before they actually happened and nothing was done as far as finding viable replacements. I can't fathom that they actually thought Quincey could attempt to fill these shoes. There was a reason he left the first time. Shouldn't have had to desperately go after Suter like they did.

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Every GM makes some bad moves, but defining Holland's abilities and track record on the basis of his 2012 signings alone pretty much means not seeing the forest for the trees.

There certainly is a lot of truth to that, but would you say over the last 5 years Holland has made more good moves than bad? When was the last time we got a steal of a trade? When was the last time we improved our team for the long term with a FA signing? When I look at the trades the Wings have made over the past 5 years or so, I am pretty unimpressed personally. Sure there are some decent value trades by moving down spots in the draft for adding extra picks, but thats about it. Regarding FA signings, he has a couple big splashes like Hossa and Alfredsson, but both of those appear to be oen and done situations that didn't necessarily help the team in the long run. Even take a guy like Weiss. He was a quality signing at the time, but was merely replacing someone that had been lost in Filppula.

Bigger picture, I feel this team has been managed poorly recently. We have still had success, but mostly due to the fact that we had some generational talent on our roster. Much of which wasn't a direct result of Holland, so its kind of hard to keep giving him credit.

Regarding Quincey, I personally feel its silly to focus on the trade. At the time it was a solid move. We didn't know Quincey would regress with the Wings. I just don't feel tha the is part of our future and that if he is resigned, especially if its more than 1 year, he will be an achor on the blue line similar to how Cleary/Sammy currently are on the forwards. The Wings have a lot of potential in their young dmen. The only way to see if they are legit is to let them play. Having Quincey around will only hamper that. Especially when he is bringing so little to the table.

And for those that say it doesn't matter, Holland would never re-sign him, thats all I heard 4 months ago about the forwards and look where that is. Its been 2 or 3 years now where everyone says Tatar and Nyquist will definitely be on the roster. Yet here we are over a quarter of the way through the season and Nyquist has 1 game and Tatar has 15. Yet Cleary has 22 and Sammy 15??? My point is, Quincey signing a multiyear deal is a very likely scenario given the wings past few seasons. And that makes me sick to my stomach.

wings87 likes this

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It's irrelevant in the sense that he's extremely unlikely to be offered a contract extension here at all.

Says the poster with a "Bench Cleary" signature graphic. Irony, your name is Crymson. :D

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Says the poster with a "Bench Cleary" signature graphic. Irony, your name is Crymson. :D

I don't get it.

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You claim there's no chance the team will resign Quincey, but it resigned Cleary. Bad things happen.

Bad things like a generally terrible defenseman being signed to a long-term, big money contract? No, not really.

Also, I've yet to hear you entirely explain your post. Why is my name ironic?

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Your name isn't ironic. Your post was.

1. You claimed Q wouldn't likely be resigned (a slug player).

2. Cleary, however, was resigned (another slug).

3. You sport a "Bench Cleary" signature.

By your sig, you're aware that the Wings do in fact sign players that shouldn't be signed. That's the irony.

Perhaps you know this and are trolling me. :confused:

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People keep repeating this as if it's a fact, but I've not seen anything to indicate why the coach should bear more responsibility for signing Cleary than the GM who offered him multi-year deals in June, only to finally sign him a few months later. Babcock starting Cleary on the top line in some games doesn't mean he somehow strong armed Holland into re-signing him.

And that's going way too easy on the Sammy signing. It was a desperation move after Holland failed at his other desperation moves in the Suter/Parise sweepstakes. He gave a raise, 2 year deal and a NTC on a 35+ contract as the league was headed into CBA negotiations that he had to know would result in a much lower cap. Now he has a $3 million fourth liner who's often a healthy scratch to show for it. The only reason Sammy's deal hasn't looked even worse is because he was on LTIR for most of last season. For a guy who's the king of "the cost was too high" this was a terrible signing by Holland, which many people here predicted.

Holland did pretty well this offseason (minus Cleary) but he's paying for his big mistakes in 2012. He couldn't even give away Tootoo because of the contract he has. If this were any other GM in the league people here would be pointing and laughing at what he'd done to his team's roster this season.

Totally agree with everything you said.

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And Kyle Quincey costs us another game.

The worst part about it, beyond the whole losing games and points thing, is that no team will want any part of him, whether through a trade or the waiver wire.

3,775,000 cap hit. Brutal.

Z Winged Dangler likes this

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We were playing so well, maybe the best we've played all season. Then, boom, Quincey. And we never really recovered.

He's our opposition's best friend, every. freaking. game.

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I really hope once the injured players get back that Quincey is the odd man out on the back end. I don't know how many times a player can be the direct reason why a goal was scored, a bad penalty, costly turnover, etc and yet still play a regular shift.

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