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Babcock's Job?

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Others have already pointed out the sound evidence that Babcock is one of if not the best coaches in the league. And that's what it comes down to for me. In terms of replacing him, I don't think there's a clear candidate that's better.

Holland has been the most disappointing these last few seasons, not Babcock.

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Others have already pointed out the sound evidence that Babcock is one of if not the best coaches in the league. And that's what it comes down to for me. In terms of replacing him, I don't think there's a clear candidate that's better.

Holland has been the most disappointing these last few seasons, not Babcock.

Agreed, given their near endless resources the best owner in all of sports has provided, Kenny could and should have done a better job. Also I love the way Chiarelli is building his teams, Shero seems to have an eye for adding valuable complementary players and well Stevo Y rebuild the Tampa Bay Lighting without much resources.

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I don't really think Yzerman has proven himself as a GM. I don't think Shero has done anything all that impressive Chiarelli has turned the Bruins around and made some good deals, but Boston hasn't won any more than Detroit has.

And for the record, Stevo, is the Jackass guy. Yzerman is Steve or Stevie, Stephen to his mommy or just the Captain. Had to get that off my chest.

Edited by Playmaker

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I mean, as far as winning goes Quenneville has fewer wins but more cups. So you can say it's a wash, or you can say Babcock is better because he wins more often, or you can say Quenneville is better because he wins more often when it matters.

Personally, I think guys who do more with less are the better coaches. Dave Tippett has missed the playoffs ONCE in a coaching career that has included Dallas, LA (before and causing their recent ascent), and Phoenix. He's never had a Datsyuk, Zetterberg, or Lidstrom. Hell he's hardly had a Rafalski or Franzen. Barry Trotz, same deal. These guys are good with no resources, give them as much support as Babs gets and they rule the roost, but that's just me. I think of them like I think of Ron Gardenhire in baseball, a lot with a little.

Edited by kipwinger

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I mean, as far as winning goes Quenneville has fewer wins but more cups. So you can say it's a wash, or you can say Babcock is better because he wins more often, or you can say Quenneville is better because he wins more often when it matters.

Personally, I think guys who do more with less are the better coaches. Dave Tippett has missed the playoffs ONCE in a coaching career that has included Dallas, LA (before and causing their recent ascent), and Phoenix. He's never had a Datsyuk, Zetterberg, or Lidstrom. Hell he's hardly had a Rafalski or Franzen. Barry Trotz, same deal. These guys are good with no resources, give them as much support as Babs gets and they rule the roost, but that's just me. I think of them like I think of Ron Gardenhire in baseball, a lot with a little.

I wouldn't say Quenneville is a wash with Babcock. He has more Cups but with two powerhouse teams. Babcock has been to the finals three times with very different teams. There's no way I'd want Quenneville over Babs.

I think Tippet is a good coach, evidenced by what he's done in Phoenix. But he was an assistant with the Kings, not head coach. And it was in 2002, well before their ascent. The coaches most responsible for the Kings turnaround were Terry Murray and Darryl Sutter.

If forced to pick a coach other than Babcock I'd definitely go with Tippet or Trotz before Quenneville.

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I wouldn't say Quenneville is a wash with Babcock. He has more Cups but with two powerhouse teams. Babcock has been to the finals three times with very different teams. There's no way I'd want Quenneville over Babs.

I think Tippet is a good coach, evidenced by what he's done in Phoenix. But he was an assistant with the Kings, not head coach. And it was in 2002, well before their ascent. The coaches most responsible for the Kings turnaround were Terry Murray and Darryl Sutter.

If forced to pick a coach other than Babcock I'd definitely go with Tippet or Trotz before Quenneville.

I agree with you on preferring Tippett or Trotz. But I don't think Quenneville's teams were any better or worse than Babs. Sure Quenneville has Kane, Toews, Sharp, Hossa, and Keith. But Babs had Pronger, Niedermayer, Getzlaf, Selanne, Perry, Kunitz, Datsyuk, Z, Franzen, Lidstrom, Rafalski, Hossa, Osgood (some people will argue but he's a hall of famer). Babs has by no means had inferior talent to Quenneville. Tippett and Trotz, of course, both have.

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I agree with you on preferring Tippett or Trotz. But I don't think Quenneville's teams were any better or worse than Babs. Sure Quenneville has Kane, Toews, Sharp, Hossa, and Keith. But Babs had Pronger, Niedermayer, Getzlaf, Selanne, Perry, Kunitz, Datsyuk, Z, Franzen, Lidstrom, Rafalski, Hossa, Osgood (some people will argue but he's a hall of famer). Babs has by no means had inferior talent to Quenneville. Tippett and Trotz, of course, both have.

Carlyle had those guys.

Babs had Giggy, Kariya and mostly a bunch of plugs.

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Carlyle had those guys.

Babs had Giggy, Kariya and mostly a bunch of plugs.

Exactly. He didn't have Selanne either and the Niedermayer he had was Rob, not Scott.

When you look down the roster it's surprising how average that Ducks team was, other than Giguere.

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Carlyle had those guys.

Babs had Giggy, Kariya and mostly a bunch of plugs.

You're totally right, I'm wrong. I have no idea why I was thinking he coached them in 2007 when I watched him coach us in the series against them in 2007. I concede on the Ducks front, but I still believe Babs' 2008 and 2009 Red Wings rosters were as good as anything Quenneville has had.

Exactly.

When you look down the roster it's surprising how average that Ducks team was, other than Giguere.

As noted above, you guys are totally right on this one.

Edit: Just looked at that 2003 Ducks roster. How the hell did they ever make it to the finals? J.S. Giguere must still have fingernail imprints on his ears from the rest of that team jumping on his back and grabbing hold.

Edited by kipwinger

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In his tenure as an nhl coach he has more wins then any other coach, what more do you need for proof that he is the best nhl coach?

Quennville, Trotz, Ruff, Hitchcock, and Sutter all have more wins. Granted they have been in the league longer as head coaches but I think that your point was that wins=success? But his winning percentage under the Wings and his overall career is lower than 3 other coaches in both categories. So going by wins solely with the Wings and wins overall, he is not the best coach in the NHL. According to wins and time, Dan Bylsma is the top coach. And he has as many Cups.

Stanley Cup winning coach

Olympian gold medal coach in his own country

more wins than any other coach

As for Kennys replacement I pray it will be Chiarelli, Shero or my favorite obviously Stevo Y :)

I could have won that medal with that team. Oh, it's overtime, who should I put on the ice? Oh, I guess those 5 future HoFs, then the next 5 future HoFs when the first 5 get tired. If he coached Libya to the gold then I would say, yes, no doubt, he is the best. I would say that Ron Wilson in coaching an underdog team to the finals and into OT against the far-and-away favorites was more impressive. The 2008 Cup and 2009 finals appearance were both impressive. And at the time it would be hard to argue that he wasn't the best coach in hockey. But right now??? Nah. Not when his coaching errors are so glaringly obvious and easily solved by other coaches in the Eastern conference. Granted, not all his fault. He has to work with what he is provided with. Holland's lapses in judgment and injuries do not allow him to roll with the team he wants.

I think 24/7 is going to show more Babcock human errors that some seem to think don't exist. I saw a huge personality defect in the first episode. He walks into the locker room says some "hey let's pick it up out there" line and leaves. That's it? TO's coach at least draws on a board and illustrates what he is talking about. Cites specifics. Makes sure it is understood. Understood that the tradition of being a Red Wing keeps you at a higher standard. But, doesn't mean you get to improvise on the ice and hope that your overall team-talent will carry you every game. That's what I took off of the episode at least.

vancouver-2010-gold-medal.jpg

Exhibit "A".

See above.

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Seriously, you're judging Babcock on one midseason game, midgame speech or lack thereof? Carlyle's speeches are obviously so effective

As we know very well as Red Wing fans, the team with the most talent often doesn't win. When a coach with a ton of talent wins, it's a piece of cake and anyone could do it. When a coach loses, it's all his fault.

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Seriously, you're judging Babcock on one midseason game, midgame speech or lack thereof? Carlyle's speeches are obviously so effective

As we know very well as Red Wing fans, the team with the most talent often doesn't win. When a coach with a ton of talent wins, it's a piece of cake and anyone could do it. When a coach loses, it's all his fault.

Nope, not judging him based on that alone. I've seen in interviews that he is very tough with his players and expects a lot from them. I am assuming that (based on this one episode) that he is either:

a. Not a between periods speech guy but a before and after game speech and speech at practice guy.

b. Not talking with the cameras around

But if all his between period coaching adjustments are this abrupt, then it could be an issue.

I am not blaming him on all the losses. Injuries and roster adjustments are OBVIOUSLY an issue. That falls on Holland. But for anyone to suggest that there is no upgrade available ANYWHERE in the NHL just because he's won in the past... come on... And he has had it easier than a lot of coaches. He came into the Wings Org. with a Bowman-Holland-Devellano team practically built and running on all cylinders. And team Canada is even more of a baby-fed team. He had the players to win and won... on home ice. What's so special about that? Is Bowman a genius to Wings fans because he won the 2002 Cup? No, fixing the team in the early 90s and taking them to dominance is why he is a genius. Babs turns the team around and they win the Cup after dominating in the playoffs will show that he is the top coach in the NHL. Nothing less.

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We can look at wins, Stanley Cups, gold metals etc, but I think last year's cup run was really a testament to Babs' coaching skills. That roster had no business competing for the Stanley Cup and they eliminated the heavily-favorited Ducks and sent the Cup-winning team to OT of game 7.

pucktividi, haroldsnepsts and Ally like this

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I think if we lost Babs and could pick who we wanted.....Trotz would be my first. He has done good with the crap that the nashville ownership has given him year end and year out. Yea they are no power house but when your management screws you every year man what can you do.


We can look at wins, Stanley Cups, gold metals etc, but I think last year's cup run was really a testament to Babs' coaching skills. That roster had no business competing for the Stanley Cup and they eliminated the heavily-favorited Ducks and sent the Cup-winning team to OT of game 7.

which is true to a point but we just need that one thing to get us over the hump and it just seems like babs is a little sporadic on the line changes and who sits and who doesn't. Although I do place a ton of if not most blame on Holland for not better preparing us for the end of days (lids retirement).

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Even with such an outstanding roster, winning the gold medal infront of the home crowd is not that easy. So no, any non pro coach claiming they would have won it with this team too, is getting a bit over themselves. Team USA had a guy named Ryan Miller playing out of his mind. Yes, it is easier to coach a bunch of allstars and future HoFers but if they aren't instructed well enough nothing will come out of it, as shown by Team Canada during last years WJC.

Babcock has his flaws just like every other coach, gm but the guy damn well knows his business, otherwise there is no way someone could have had such an impressive set card as a coach. Making the playoffs last year almost was a miracle, lately his GM really has let him down in terms of player personal, he can only work with what Kenny is giving him.

Personally I like Tippet and i think he is a great coach, but for whatever reason I feel like the guy is made for non major hockey-markets. His systems are simple, yet hard to defeat and he can get a bunch of average NHLers to play above their skillset for him but he certainly can't get top players to reach the next level.

As for Babcocks replacement when the time is right, I would like to see Carlyle or Barry Trotz.

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I know that Wings' fans can be a bit spoiled at times but seriously?

Wings are in fifth...with a roster that's less than impressive and plagued with injuries.

Babcock is the reason that last year's terrible team made the playoffs and he IS one of the best (if not THE best) coach in the league.

It's been too long since our last Stanley Cup but there's 25 other teams in the league that have been waiting longer so I'm gonna go ahead and not freak out just yet.

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I know that Wings' fans can be a bit spoiled at times but seriously?

Wings are in fifth...with a roster that's less than impressive and plagued with injuries.

Babcock is the reason that last year's terrible team made the playoffs and he IS one of the best (if not THE best) coach in the league.

It's been too long since our last Stanley Cup but there's 25 other teams in the league that have been waiting longer so I'm gonna go ahead and not freak out just yet.

I think people are used to the west, where our current points total barely gets us into the playoffs. Also, even though we are getting points here and there with OT games - the quality of our play has regressed heavily over the last 2 years. Our identity as a puck possession team has diminished so we don't look as dominant. We are undergoing roster turnover right now so it is to be expected (at least by me).

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I think people are used to the west, where our current points total barely gets us into the playoffs. Also, even though we are getting points here and there with OT games - the quality of our play has regressed heavily over the last 2 years. Our identity as a puck possession team has diminished so we don't look as dominant. We are undergoing roster turnover right now so it is to be expected (at least by me).

Agreed with that, but Babcock is the one choosing the right player from the roster given by Kenny so his hands are somewhat tied here. He made mistakes for sure, but I would bet my house if Kenny fires him there are at least 27 other teams who would fire their current coach and make him an offer immediately, he is that good of a coach as shown by HBO episode 2.

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Just a thought....would you all think Jeff Blashill be good fill in for Bab's in one or two years? He is having one hell of a start in GR!

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Do I think Babcock's job is in jeopardy? No, but I can't say that it doesn't bother me that Babcock has let his personal feelings get in the way of what is best for the team.

To be fair to Babcock, Cleary *was* the team's second-leading scorer in the playoffs, even if his numbers were very inflated.

That said, it seems Babcock has now recognized Cleary's very significant shortcomings, though he still continues to gift the latter ice time in situations Cleary doesn't deserve.

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Just a thought....would you all think Jeff Blashill be good fill in for Bab's in one or two years? He is having one hell of a start in GR!

I friggin' love Jeff Blashill. If we had to replace Babs, he'd be my #1 choice.

I fear he'll be snatched up by another organization. Sabres? Isles? Flames?

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