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Canadians may be shopping Subban...

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That's what you took away from that?? That was not hinted at or mentioned in any possible way...at all.

Talk about completely missing the point.

Um. ...not certain that wasn't the point The Greek was trying to make. Was just very diplomatic about it.

...but I think there was a bit of sarcasm in 87's response.

just my take-away.

EDIT: okay, maybe not on '87's part.

Can't we all just agree that Subban has swagger... and leave it at that.

Edited by e_prime
Son of a Wing likes this

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I prefer not to make a big deal out of this but when he uses the word uppity he is hinting. And that's just not right.

I've honestly never heard that word used in a racial connotation but after a quick google search I see now what you're referring to....

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Omg this racism discussion is beyond stupid. He was barely 23/24 when he won the goddamn Norris trophy. If I won the Norris trophy at that age I would run my WHITE mouth at everyone in the league. Then eventually I'd hit 25 and stop being idot like most ppl that age.

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I think the Norris thing should be divided one trophy for the best DEFENDER and one for offensive production.

Karlsson winning it was absolute rob job against Weber that year.

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That last sentence sounds like you're calling all of us racist that's not cool.

Subban is black, has an NBA attitude. Ovenchicken is white and Russian, he has a soccer attitude.

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If Subban is available for a decent price, the Wings would be crazy not to take a look. Personality is one thing, play is another... Subban would step in and either push Kronwall's game forward or replace him as the foundation of the defense (not that he wouldn't deserve it with the Norris he's already won). For all the talk of 'immature' penalties, Kronwall actually has a worse penalty differential than Subban does this season (-15 for Kronwall to -9 for Subban).

Subban is more aggressive in his play that what the Wings are today, in both ends... He has twice as many shots as any Detroit D-man, 50% more hits, and has still managed to block nearly as many shots as Kronwall... He would be represent a huge upgrade over any non-Kronwall defenseman and could really open up more options on the power play. The fact that Montreal tries to make him look like a bad guy or immature kid in the media to keep his cap hit down shouldn't really factor into what he can do on the ice...

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That last sentence sounds like you're calling all of us racist that's not cool.

I wasn't calling everyone racist, but I was, indeed, saying that MUCH of the PK hate is race based. I just don't like throwing the word around, because a lot of white people refuse to believe that racism is still a problem, and many people may not be aware of their own prejudices. I prefer to let people confront the issue themselves, because it is the only way some people will realize what truly influences their opinions.

There are people who really don't like arrogance or showmanship. I have no issue with that. There were several people who hated Tatar and mursak's goal celebrations. But I do remember most posters not having a problem with it. I just find it strange that his "arrogance" is enough for some people to not want one of the game's Best defenseman on their team.

Admittedly, with the arrogance stuff, it's a bit of a wash. Nonetheless, there is still an undoubtable amount of PK hate that is race based. Saying he is a hockey player with the attitude of a football player is a clear illustration of this. I just really wish I could find the article, because something very similar was said In this thread.

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I wasn't calling everyone racist, but I was, indeed, saying that MUCH of the PK hate is race based. I just don't like throwing the word around, because a lot of white people refuse to believe that racism is still a problem, and many people may not be aware of their own prejudices. I prefer to let people confront the issue themselves, because it is the only way some people will realize what truly influences their opinions.

There are people who really don't like arrogance or showmanship. I have no issue with that. There were several people who hated Tatar and mursak's goal celebrations. But I do remember most posters not having a problem with it. I just find it strange that his "arrogance" is enough for some people to not want one of the game's Best defenseman on their team.

Admittedly, with the arrogance stuff, it's a bit of a wash. Nonetheless, there is still an undoubtable amount of PK hate that is race based. Saying he is a hockey player with the attitude of a football player is a clear illustration of this. I just really wish I could find the article, because something very similar was said In this thread.

Yeah sure everyone who disagrees with something is a racist, its a simple fact that Subban, Kadri, Yakupov, Eller, Ovechkin, E Kane are having a football, NBA, soccer attitude and in hockey that's simple not appreciated showmanship, over the top celebrations aren't wanted period. Don't like what others are writing? Don't read its as simple as that. I have my opinion on this guy and I will not change it, neither will his supporters so really there is nothing between the lines.

The current best defenders are named Weber, Suter, Pietrangelo, Chara, Doughty and Keith why? Because they aren't playing like 4 forwards and are getting the job done defensively.

Edited by frankgrimes

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Yeah sure everyone who disagrees with something is a racist, its a simple fact that Subban, Kadri, Yakupov, Eller, Ovechkin, E Kane are having a football, NBA, soccer attitude and in hockey that's simple not appreciated showmanship, over the top celebrations aren't wanted period. Don't like what others are writing? Don't read its as simple as that. I have my opinion on this guy and I will not change it, neither will his supporters so really there is nothing between the lines.

The current best defenders are named Weber, Suter, Pietrangelo, Chara, Doughty and Keith why? Because they aren't playing like 4 forwards and are getting the job done defensively.

I didn't say everyone who dislikes pk is a racist. I did say that a lot of the PK hate is due to racial prejudice. I also said that there are people who dislike arrogance across the board, and that is a consistent and legitimate viewpoint to have. I didn't want to single out your post, because I didn't want to seem like I'm picking on you and it's not fair to accuse individuals of racism when I don't truly know their motivations. But, You really should have left this one alone. If you really think all showboating is the same, you PROBABLY would have agreed when someone brought up ovechkin as an example of an nba attitude. Instead, you said he has more of a soccer attitude. Now you're saying that NBA/NFL/Soccer attitudes are all the same, because it works with your argument.

Your reaction to my post (everyone who disagrees with you is racist) is exactly why I hate discussing race with other white people. It is exactly what I was talking about when I said many people stop listening once the "race card" is played. The fact of the matter is that racism is still a problem. When guys show up to the Olympics in blackface and subban jerseys, and a player gets suspended for asking PK if he slipped on a banana peel, it becomes hard to argue that there is no race-based resentment towards subban.

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P.K. Subban is a spectacular puck-moving defenseman who can take big influence on a game with his end-to-end rushes. Is a very good skater and is able to shake of fore-checking forwards with quick stops or sharp turns and decent puck-control. Possesses a hard and accurate slap-shot, which is especially on the power play a weapon. Battles hard on every shift, but discipline is an issue as he takes stupid and often badly-timed penalties.

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I wasn't calling everyone racist, but I was, indeed, saying that MUCH of the PK hate is race based. I just don't like throwing the word around, because a lot of white people refuse to believe that racism is still a problem, and many people may not be aware of their own prejudices. I prefer to let people confront the issue themselves, because it is the only way some people will realize what truly influences their opinions.

There are people who really don't like arrogance or showmanship. I have no issue with that. There were several people who hated Tatar and mursak's goal celebrations. But I do remember most posters not having a problem with it. I just find it strange that his "arrogance" is enough for some people to not want one of the game's Best defenseman on their team.

Admittedly, with the arrogance stuff, it's a bit of a wash. Nonetheless, there is still an undoubtable amount of PK hate that is race based. Saying he is a hockey player with the attitude of a football player is a clear illustration of this. I just really wish I could find the article, because something very similar was said In this thread.

I'm not racist, when I see a horse I call it a horse. Simply put I don't like p.k. cause he cannot control his emotions, he has a bad attitude and only cares about himself. We've played Montreal a few times this year, and I'm pretty sure pk has more penalty minutes then any other player in those games, and that is simply unacceptable for a dman, especially one with his skill set and puck prowess. Don't like him and doubt want him here, he's not worth the headaches or problems, and he's probably a locker room cancer.

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I'm not racist, when I see a horse I call it a horse. Simply put I don't like p.k. cause he cannot control his emotions, he has a bad attitude and only cares about himself. We've played Montreal a few times this year, and I'm pretty sure pk has more penalty minutes then any other player in those games, and that is simply unacceptable for a dman, especially one with his skill set and puck prowess. Don't like him and doubt want him here, he's not worth the headaches or problems, and he's probably a locker room cancer.

First, I would like you to go through my posts and find where I singled you out and called you a racist. In the very post you quoted, I acknowledged it is unfair to accuse someone of racism when I do not know what truly motivates him. Edited by The Greek

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First, I would like you to go through my posts and find where I singled you out and called you a racist. In the very post you quoted, I acknowledged it is unfair to accuse someone of racism when I do not know what truly motivates him.

I didn't say you called me specifically racist. However you are making a very strong generalization here. I've never heard anyone say they hate pk cause he's black. I have however heard some very legitimate reasons why people doubt like him. Yes I'm sure some people don't like him cause he's black, but I think most of the pk hate is because of his attitude and his lack of self control and discipline, and he's very selfish.

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