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alabarrie

Dan Boyle not coming back to the Sharks

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Honestly, I'm surprised it hasn't already happened. If there's one thing he's proven, even back when he was in Boston, is that he doesn't have what it takes to take his team to the next level. Thornton and the Sharks are synonymous with each other and I would think SJ would want to break that.

In fairness, Yzerman couldn't lead us to the Cup and we were gonna trade him to Ottawa for Yashin. Not a perfect parallel, but yeah.

I think Thornton is a great 1C, but maybe not a great C, if you know what I mean. Thing is, who's the better leader on the team? To me, that feels like the big issue with them. Thornton doesn't have to be traded, but he probably shouldn't be captain, but there's no one better for the role, but there has to be somene better for the role, but there isn't really, so, f***.

I dunno, maybe since they're losing a veteran leader in Boyle they should look into acquiring some fresh veteran leader blood. Or they could trade for James Neal or Chris Kunitz. That would be so them.

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Kronwall Smith

DeKeyser Boyle

Ericsson Sproul

OMG THAT'S TERRIBLE IT NEEDS MORE YOUTH OR WE'RE SCREWED

I'm sure I sound like a broken record, but this is my ideal defense corps for next season. Great balance there - saves the headache of seeing a forward play the right point on the PP (though, I think given the depth at forward, we'll still see one on the 2nd unit, left side) and gives the guys roles. Kronwall, Boyle and Sproul would be PP for certain, maybe some looks for Smith. PK would be Kronwall, Ericsson, DeKeyser and Smith.

Dabura likes this

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We all know this has ken holland written all over it. Don't forget we gave Bert a 2 year extension at 37. Also the same guy who brought back Sammy at 35 for two years, went after Alfie and Modano and made a hard push for Jagr.

A 5 year deal wouldn't be surprising.

Yup - you're right...And if this is another poor signing - it is then Ken Holland is relieved of his duties.

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I'm sure I sound like a broken record, but this is my ideal defense corps for next season. Great balance there - saves the headache of seeing a forward play the right point on the PP (though, I think given the depth at forward, we'll still see one on the 2nd unit, left side) and gives the guys roles. Kronwall, Boyle and Sproul would be PP for certain, maybe some looks for Smith. PK would be Kronwall, Ericsson, DeKeyser and Smith.

I'd probably prefer Niskanen, but I'd gladly take two years of Dan Boyle.

The bottom line is we're missing Lidstrom and Rafalski like no one's business. They weren't young or big or physical or fleet of foot. They were just really good with the puck, really smart without it. We need that on the back end or nothing works. What we saw this season is nothing working. We need to possess the puck and do good things with it and make savvy reads and make the opposition run around and chase the play. We didn't do that, because we lacked experience and elite talent.

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I'd probably prefer Niskanen, but I'd gladly take two years of Dan Boyle.

The bottom line is we're missing Lidstrom and Rafalski like no one's business. They weren't young or big or physical or fleet of foot. They were just really good with the puck, really smart without it. We need that on the back end or nothing works. What we saw this season is nothing working. We need to possess the puck and do good things with it and make savvy reads and make the opposition run around and chase the play. We didn't do that, because we lacked experience and elite talent.

Boyle doesn't fill that need if he did the Sharks wouldn't have let him go simple as that.

Also we need to stop dreaming about another one being able to do what Lidstrom did, it won't happen :( Niskanen will be the best bet in terms of PP QB abilities and even then I'm not expecting flawless Lidström like play from him either ..

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Boyle doesn't fill that need if he did the Sharks wouldn't have let him go simple as that.

Also we need to stop dreaming about another one being able to do what Lidstrom did, it won't happen :( Niskanen will be the best bet in terms of PP QB abilities and even then I'm not expecting flawless Lidström like play from him either ..

I agree. Boyle really can't be called "elite" anymore.

That being said, I feel like I would rather see the Red Wings grab Dan Boyle or Marek Zidlicky for a year or two, instead of coughing up what Niskanens camp is likely looking for on a long term deal. I'm not sold on Niskanen for the $5.5mil he is likely to get on the open market. This was his "break out" season after being average for a few seasons. I can already envision the coal dragging he'll get here if he regresses to his pre-13/14 form (see Quincey, Weiss, etc.). If that happens, the Wings are stuck with an expensive hard to move dman, which will create a logjam for when Sproul/Ouellet/Marchenko/etc. are ready to be regulars. Grab Boyle or Zidlicky for a year at around $4mil. If they don't work out, you let whoever it is walk as a UFA the next summer and either promote from within or get another short term UFA.

whitewolf406 and Jesusberg like this

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I dont know much about him but I've heard that he may be done...

Its possible that his play has dipped alot so holland will probably get him signed for a decade or so

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I dont know much about him but I've heard that he may be done...

Its possible that his play has dipped alot so holland will probably get him signed for a decade or so

Holland doesn't sign guys like that for more than 2 years at most. Every team signs these types of players. Go to any fan forum and all the fans do is ***** about how they signed this vet or that vet that's washed up. You need vets to be successful, you can't win with just youth. Look at Edmonton

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Boyle doesn't fill that need if he did the Sharks wouldn't have let him go simple as that.

Also we need to stop dreaming about another one being able to do what Lidstrom did, it won't happen :( Niskanen will be the best bet in terms of PP QB abilities and even then I'm not expecting flawless Lidström like play from him either ..

Straw man. I never said Dan Boyle is Nick Lidstrom.

I want at least two puck-moving, offense-driving, point-producing, PP-quarterbacking, possession-savvy vets in our top four. Boyle, while not the player he used to be, and certainly never the player Lidstrom was, possesses these qualities and would therefore be a big addition to our team. I wouldn't want him for more than two seasons, though.

Ultimately, he probably signs with the Rags. Richards and St. Louis are there, and if they could turn Stralman into Boyle? That's a ludicrous top four they'd have there.

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Holland doesn't sign guys like that for more than 2 years at most. Every team signs these types of players. Go to any fan forum and all the fans do is ***** about how they signed this vet or that vet that's washed up. You need vets to be successful, you can't win with just youth. Look at Edmonton

I dont understand what your trying to say

Holland doesnt have a reputation for signing guys on the decline to bad contracts? Boyle would be OK as a wing, but not for any cap hit or term hed get here.

As per youth, yes i know that. Just because I don't want Boyle here doesn't mean i dont think that we need vets on the team. We really need one on defence right now but I don't think it should come from Boyle who managed to be -8 on a pretty stacked sharks team

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I dont understand what your trying to say

Holland doesnt have a reputation for signing guys on the decline to bad contracts? Boyle would be OK as a wing, but not for any cap hit or term hed get here.

As per youth, yes i know that. Just because I don't want Boyle here doesn't mean i dont think that we need vets on the team. We really need one on defence right now but I don't think it should come from Boyle who managed to be -8 on a pretty stacked sharks team

Yes Holland like every gm signs some bad contracts and throws around ntc's like they're going out of style. However we do need some of those vets

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I agree. Boyle really can't be called "elite" anymore.

That being said, I feel like I would rather see the Red Wings grab Dan Boyle or Marek Zidlicky for a year or two, instead of coughing up what Niskanens camp is likely looking for on a long term deal. I'm not sold on Niskanen for the $5.5mil he is likely to get on the open market. This was his "break out" season after being average for a few seasons. I can already envision the coal dragging he'll get here if he regresses to his pre-13/14 form (see Quincey, Weiss, etc.). If that happens, the Wings are stuck with an expensive hard to move dman, which will create a logjam for when Sproul/Ouellet/Marchenko/etc. are ready to be regulars. Grab Boyle or Zidlicky for a year at around $4mil. If they don't work out, you let whoever it is walk as a UFA the next summer and either promote from within or get another short term UFA.

This is pretty much my exact line of thinking. Kronwall and Ericsson are here for a while longer (5 and 6 years, respectively) and I don't see the team moving DeKeyser anytime soon, Smith if he continues to get better. You throw in Niskanen and you're essentially saying you're going to move one of those four regulars, and I would assume that Kronwall, E and DeKeyser are all looked upon more favorably by management (and most of us).

I'm ok with moving Smith in a package deal for a legitimate right-handed, top 4 guy... but I don't think moving him in some other manner to make room for Niskanen and the kids makes sense. The big four defensive prospects are knocking on the door, and it's going to be tough to make room for them as is... adding Niskanen for the term he's going to get would only complicate that further.

Edited by Jesusberg

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Would actually be a good signing for the right price.

This powerplay is terrible and needs some help back there. Veteran leadership would also help.

Does our pp stink because of our Dmen, or lack of consistent production from our forwards?

Personally I feel we have enough veteran leadership on this team as is; Hank/Dats/Kronner have been with this team for years.

I'd rather see a few of the GR kids get some ice time in the D.

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Does our pp stink because of our Dmen, or lack of consistent production from our forwards?

Personally I feel we have enough veteran leadership on this team as is; Hank/Dats/Kronner have been with this team for years.

I'd rather see a few of the GR kids get some ice time in the D.

Ya that's our problem. We didn't have enough young guys playing.

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I'd love to have Boyle. Under-valued for his current expectation because of his recent struggles, but a champion is inside.

He would redeem himself in Detroit. I'd love to have him

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Rather trade for Luke Schenn, who seems to be getting bigger and stronger every season. Guy is an extremely hard worker and trains with Shea Weber. Boyle from 2 - 3 years ago sure but right now no thanks.

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I wouldn't want Schenn as our only addition. He's a shutdown defenseman and I don't think we need another one of those. The Wings are supposed to be a high-scoring team, the offense being driven primarily by two top-end puck-moving, offensively inclined, PP-quarterbacking veteran defensemen. We have one in Kronwall. We could have another in Boyle. His age won't be a big issue if he's used properly and we're able to play our possession game. Timonen in Philly probably should've retired two seasons ago, but he's continued to be their most valuable defenseman. He moves the puck, he drives possession and the attack. He's small and old and slow and weak, but it hasn't mattered all that much, because they haven't asked him to be more like Luke Schenn.

We're not getting nearly enough production from our blue line. Kronwall's doing what he can, but that's all we've got. DeKeyser is a defensive defenseman. Smith may or may not become the high-scoring poor man's Erik Karlsson that we want him to be. Quincey is Quincey. I wouldn't expect any of the kids to be big producers in their first few seasons. Adding Schenn would be adding another guy who doesn't have great offensive instincts and won't really help with our breakouts.

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We're not getting nearly enough production from our blue line. Kronwall's doing what he can, but that's all we've got. DeKeyser is a defensive defenseman. Smith may or may not become the high-scoring poor man's Erik Karlsson that we want him to be. Quincey is Quincey. I wouldn't expect any of the kids to be big producers in their first few seasons. Adding Schenn would be adding another guy who doesn't have great offensive instincts and won't really help with our breakouts.

I forgot to mention Ericsson. Ericsson doesn't produce much; he's a shutdown defenseman.

Kronwall is our only reliable point producer.

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Justin Bourne wrote a piece a little while back about the importance of having a cornerstone defenseman. He listed each team's #1 defenseman and divided the teams according to how they (the teams) ultimately fared this season. The point he was making is that the remaining playoff teams generally boast better #1s than the teams that have been eliminated, and the teams that have been eliminated generally boast better #1s than the teams that didn't make the playoffs. But what really struck me is that virtually none of the league's #1s are shutdown types. These days (maybe like always), a Truly Elite Defenseman is, basically, a two-way monster. He can defend, but maybe more importantly, he moves the puck exceptionally well and puts up lots-o-points. He drives possession, offense. He runs the power play...

I'm not saying Dan Boyle is one of the true elites. But he's a lot closer than a Luke Schenn. With Kronwall being excellent (though, not elite) in his own right, we don't necessarily need a true elite. We just need a guy who has that kind of ability. A guy like...Dan Boyle. After two years of Boyle, Smith would, hopefully, be a big producer, and Sproul (who I think has the potential to be a #1 in this league) would be ready to play big minutes. And even if Boyle gets hurt or seriously falters, well, that's an opportunity for one of the kids. So, to me, it's a win-win.

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Rather trade for Luke Schenn, who seems to be getting bigger and stronger every season. Guy is an extremely hard worker and trains with Shea Weber. Boyle from 2 - 3 years ago sure but right now no thanks.

Schenn is brutal. Hes nothing more than a 6th defenceman; which we have 4 of

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Justin Bourne wrote a piece a little while back about the importance of having a cornerstone defenseman. He listed each team's #1 defenseman and divided the teams according to how they (the teams) ultimately fared this season. The point he was making is that the remaining playoff teams generally boast better #1s than the teams that have been eliminated, and the teams that have been eliminated generally boast better #1s than the teams that didn't make the playoffs. But what really struck me is that virtually none of the league's #1s are shutdown types. These days (maybe like always), a Truly Elite Defenseman is, basically, a two-way monster. He can defend, but maybe more importantly, he moves the puck exceptionally well and puts up lots-o-points. He drives possession, offense. He runs the power play...

I'm not saying Dan Boyle is one of the true elites. But he's a lot closer than a Luke Schenn. With Kronwall being excellent (though, not elite) in his own right, we don't necessarily need a true elite. We just need a guy who has that kind of ability. A guy like...Dan Boyle. After two years of Boyle, Smith would, hopefully, be a big producer, and Sproul (who I think has the potential to be a #1 in this league) would be ready to play big minutes. And even if Boyle gets hurt or seriously falters, well, that's an opportunity for one of the kids. So, to me, it's a win-win.

And we don't have to trade to get him

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I forgot to mention Ericsson. Ericsson doesn't produce much; he's a shutdown defenseman.

Kronwall is our only reliable point producer.

I truly feel as if Smith could jump to the 30-35 range next year, given some actual PP time. One of his biggest issues at the beginning of the year and prior was getting the puck out of the zone - boneheaded passes up the middle. He seemed to get away from that near the end, and especially when paired with Kronwall. More poise in the defensive zone and some time on the PP and I think this team has got another point producer.

Justin Bourne wrote a piece a little while back about the importance of having a cornerstone defenseman. He listed each team's #1 defenseman and divided the teams according to how they (the teams) ultimately fared this season. The point he was making is that the remaining playoff teams generally boast better #1s than the teams that have been eliminated, and the teams that have been eliminated generally boast better #1s than the teams that didn't make the playoffs. But what really struck me is that virtually none of the league's #1s are shutdown types. These days (maybe like always), a Truly Elite Defenseman is, basically, a two-way monster. He can defend, but maybe more importantly, he moves the puck exceptionally well and puts up lots-o-points. He drives possession, offense. He runs the power play...

I'm not saying Dan Boyle is one of the true elites. But he's a lot closer than a Luke Schenn. With Kronwall being excellent (though, not elite) in his own right, we don't necessarily need a true elite. We just need a guy who has that kind of ability. A guy like...Dan Boyle. After two years of Boyle, Smith would, hopefully, be a big producer, and Sproul (who I think has the potential to be a #1 in this league) would be ready to play big minutes. And even if Boyle gets hurt or seriously falters, well, that's an opportunity for one of the kids. So, to me, it's a win-win.

I think it's been pretty obvious in recent posts that I'm pro-Boyle, and I agree completely above the elite defenders. Doughty and Keith are there, McDonagh has turned into that guy. I don't think PK is that two-way monster, but Markov makes up for it. Regardless, those are the guys who dictate possession.

I also agree with the sentiment behind having Boyle mentor the other offensive defenders. I think Smith, Sproul, etc could learn from watching his poise, ability to hold the puck at the blueline and his puck movement. I'm not sure about the "Sproul being a #1 in this league" comment. I am a huge, huge Sproul fan, but I think his defensive game is definitely lacking. He's really at a crossroads right now where he needs to fill out and shore up his defensive game, or he could run the risk of developing a Cody Franson type game. That's the downside with him - an offensively driven big man who is prone to defensive lapses - a PP specialist. Right now I see Sproul as having a 2nd pairing guy kind of upside, but that could change, obviously. I for one really hope he rounds out into a two-way guy.

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It's probably moot. We'll sign Tom Gilbert ultra-cheap or sign Derek Morris ultra-expensive or something and none of us will be happy and yeah.

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And we don't have to trade to get him

Personally, I'm ok with trading for a defenseman, but I'd like for him to be a top-end player. I don't really see Schenn being a top-four rock on a skill-centric possession team (maaaybe a Brad Stuart-esque #4), which means we're talking about the third pairing, which means we're also talking about four or five NHL-ready kids with good upside, plus Kindl and Lashoff. So, unless he'd come real cheap, I wouldn't want to trade for Schenn. But a high-end guy? I'd be open to that. Free agency should be the priority, though.

I truly feel as if Smith could jump to the 30-35 range next year, given some actual PP time. One of his biggest issues at the beginning of the year and prior was getting the puck out of the zone - boneheaded passes up the middle. He seemed to get away from that near the end, and especially when paired with Kronwall. More poise in the defensive zone and some time on the PP and I think this team has got another point producer.

I think it's been pretty obvious in recent posts that I'm pro-Boyle, and I agree completely above the elite defenders. Doughty and Keith are there, McDonagh has turned into that guy. I don't think PK is that two-way monster, but Markov makes up for it. Regardless, those are the guys who dictate possession.

I also agree with the sentiment behind having Boyle mentor the other offensive defenders. I think Smith, Sproul, etc could learn from watching his poise, ability to hold the puck at the blueline and his puck movement. I'm not sure about the "Sproul being a #1 in this league" comment. I am a huge, huge Sproul fan, but I think his defensive game is definitely lacking. He's really at a crossroads right now where he needs to fill out and shore up his defensive game, or he could run the risk of developing a Cody Franson type game. That's the downside with him - an offensively driven big man who is prone to defensive lapses - a PP specialist. Right now I see Sproul as having a 2nd pairing guy kind of upside, but that could change, obviously. I for one really hope he rounds out into a two-way guy.

I probably should've been clearer. I don't think Sproul is going to be a two-way monster. It's possible, but unlikely.

I can see Sproul putting up points like a lunatic and throwing some big hits while being so-so in his own end. (I don't see this happening right away. This would be a few years down the road.) Given the precedent that's been set by guys like Green and Karlsson and Subban and Letang (and, again, maybe we can go back as far as Coffey, Orr...), that would actually make Sproul one of the better defensemen in this league and a fringe Norris Trophy candidate, not unlike Kronwall. So, it's not necessarily that I think he's going to be facemeltingly amazing. I just think he fits the mold of That Guy Every Team Wants and Needs at Least One of on the Blue Line. Not on the same level as Keith or Doughty or Weber or Chara or Suter (two-way monsters)...or Karlsson or Subban (one-way monsters), for that matter. But those are insanely rare and special players.

What I'm getting at is, the "new" school is never having to actually play defense. You still need your Schenns and Fistrics and Lashoffs, but the closer we can get our top three to what we had with Lidstrom-Rafalski-Kronwall, the better. That means, of course, we'll definitely need a two-way monster (who may or may not be an elderly Kronwall), and I'm not too confident Sproul is going to be that guy. But, the more offense from our defense, the better.

I'm hoping Smith can blossom with some PP time and more experience. He's one of our better puck-movers at present, and he has pretty good offensive insticts - so he's far from expendable. But if he doesn't show some pretty significant growth, and if even one of the kids below manages to do what he was supposed to do and makes an impact straight out of the gate (as opposed to needing 3-4 years to be a solid top-four defenseman, after having spent extra time on the farm), he's going to fall down the depth chart, and if we then decide to move him, we'll be selling quite low. So it's an interesting situation with Smith.

Edited by Dabura

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