krsmith17 7,191 Report post Posted January 20, 2015 Smith is better than Ouellet now, and I believe Smith will be better than Ouellet in the future. I'm not, nor have I ever been as high on Ouellet as most fans. I don't think he's close to our top defense prospect. I've watched a ton of Griffins games over the past few years and Ouellet has never done anything to impress. I'll admit that his hockey IQ seems to be high, and he does everything above average, but nothing he does, points to him being better than a bottom pairing defenseman at the NHL level. I think Smith is a second pairing defenseman now and he has the potential to be a really good one in a year or two. I think Sproul is the only other defense prospect that we have (other than Backman, and he's gone back to Sweden...) that has a legit shot to be a top 3/4 defenseman. As good as the DeKeyser / Quincey pairing has been does anyone actually think that it is better than the DeKeyser / Smith pairing? I sure don't, but we're all entitled to our own opinion... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kipwinger 8,756 Report post Posted January 20, 2015 (edited) Smith is better than Ouellet now, and I believe Smith will be better than Ouellet in the future. I'm not, nor have I ever been as high on Ouellet as most fans. I don't think he's close to our top defense prospect. I've watched a ton of Griffins games over the past few years and Ouellet has never done anything to impress. I'll admit that his hockey IQ seems to be high, and he does everything above average, but nothing he does, points to him being better than a bottom pairing defenseman at the NHL level. I think Smith is a second pairing defenseman now and he has the potential to be a really good one in a year or two. I think Sproul is the only other defense prospect that we have (other than Backman, and he's gone back to Sweden...) that has a legit shot to be a top 3/4 defenseman. As good as the DeKeyser / Quincey pairing has been does anyone actually think that it is better than the DeKeyser / Smith pairing? I sure don't, but we're all entitled to our own opinion... No, I don't think Smith and Dekeyser would be better. Quincey is better than Smith in nearly every objective measure for a defenseman. Quincey has more goals. Quincey has more assists. Quincey plays on pk. Quincey has more hits. Quincey has FEWER give aways. Quincey has more blocked shots. Quincey shoots more. Quincey has a higher shooting percentage. Quincey has a higher Corsi. Quincey starts in the offensive zone less often. Smith has FEWER penalties (by two). Smith has MORE takeaways (by a lot). Other than those two areas, Smith is not better than Quincey in any measureable way. And that's not an opinion buddy. That's a FACT. Edited January 20, 2015 by kipwinger 1 number9 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krsmith17 7,191 Report post Posted January 20, 2015 Yup, all of that is true, as recent as this week... He has gone on a huge run, just like any of our defenders can next week, including Smith... If Smith had been paired with DeKeyser on the second pair for the past month, I'm very confident he would have more than 5 extra points... I'm one of the very few that has never constantly bitched about Quincey, but Smith is better than Quincey in MY OPINION, and Quincey (every single defenseman in the league) is better than Smith in YOUR OPINION... That's completely fine with me, as long as you're not the one calling the shots. Smith is here to stay. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kipwinger 8,756 Report post Posted January 20, 2015 (edited) Yup, all of that is true, as recent as this week... He has gone on a huge run, just like any of our defenders can next week, including Smith... If Smith had been paired with DeKeyser on the second pair for the past month, I'm very confident he would have more than 5 extra points... I'm one of the very few that has never constantly bitched about Quincey, but Smith is better than Quincey in MY OPINION, and Quincey (every single defenseman in the league) is better than Smith in YOUR OPINION... That's completely fine with me, as long as you're not the one calling the shots. Smith is here to stay. Your opinion is wrong. I just proved that with measurable evidence. Also, to suggest that Quincey surged ahead of Smith in all those areas in just one week is not only wrong...but laughable. Have your opinion. That's fine. But as of right now it is 100% clear that your opinion is based on absolutely NOTHING substantive. Edit: Also, for the 50th time. You have to earn your opportunities. Of course Smith would have better stats with Dekesyer rather than Ouellet...so would Lashoff or Kindl. It doesn't mean they deserve to be there. The Wings organization doesn't owe Brendan Smith more ice time any more than they owed Mattias Backman more ice time. Earn it or don't. Edited January 20, 2015 by kipwinger Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krsmith17 7,191 Report post Posted January 20, 2015 (edited) An opinion cannot be wrong, hence it being an "opinion"... An estimation of the quality of worth of someone or something not necessarily based on fact... You can throw as many stats at me as you want, I'm going by the product I see on the ice. Smith is the better option for the second pairing, while Quincey would be a great shut-down third pairing guy. Yup, I said Quincey surged ahead of Smith in ALL those areas in just one week... It was very clear in what I said that I was specifically talking about points, as in the one extra goal he got, and the four extra assists... Is it really that impossible for you to fathom that Smith could have potentially got that plus some if he were paired with DeKeyser for the past month rather than babysitting a rookie?... Give me a break... Edited January 20, 2015 by krsmith17 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kipwinger 8,756 Report post Posted January 20, 2015 (edited) An opinion cannot be wrong, hence it being an "opinion"... An estimation of the quality of worth of someone or something. You can throw as many stats at me as you want, I'm going by the product I see on the ice. Smith is the better option for the second pairing, while Quincey would be a great shut-down third pairing guy. Yup, I said Quincey surged ahead of Smith in ALL those areas in just one week... It was very clear in what I said that I was specifically talking about points, as in the one extra goal he got, and the four extra assists... Is it really that impossible for you to fathom that Smith could have potentially got that plus some if he were paired with DeKeyser for the past month rather than babysitting a rookie?... Give me a break... Christ, are you really saying that just because you hold an opinion it "cannot be wrong"? You're definitely smarter than that. An opinion can absolutely be wrong if the preponderance of evidence suggests the opposite, as it does in this case. Because there's an objective truth here. Opinions can't be wrong when the choices are subjective (e.g. I like red better than blue tshirts). If you said "I like Smith better", I couldn't argue. That's your subjective opinion. But you said "Smith IS better". Which is not an opinion, its a demonstrably false statement. That's like saying my "opinion" isn't wrong if I say Steve Yzerman was better offensively than Wayne Gretzky. "Well...um...I don't care what the stats say...umm...it's my OPINION". You're wrong dude. Get over it. One day Smith MAY be better than Quincey, but as of right now the universe of evidence proves otherwise, regardless of your opinion. Edited January 20, 2015 by kipwinger 1 number9 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rick zombo 3,739 Report post Posted January 20, 2015 You guys should take a much deserved break and join us in the GDT so we can all ***** about Babcock's new lines Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kipwinger 8,756 Report post Posted January 20, 2015 You guys should take a much deserved break and join us in the GDT so we can all ***** about Babcock's new lines Haha, I haven't even seen them. Bad? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Echolalia 2,961 Report post Posted January 20, 2015 Haha, I haven't even seen them. Bad?Woefully Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rick zombo 3,739 Report post Posted January 20, 2015 Haha, I haven't even seen them. Bad? You'll LOVE them. 2 number9 and kipwinger reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krsmith17 7,191 Report post Posted January 20, 2015 I never once represented Smith as having more points and trying to pass it off as an opinion... I never stated anything as opinion that can be proven by stats. I am saying that Smith is a better defenseman, and that IS an opinion and it is NOT wrong. Get the f*** over yourself Kip. You're not always right... Who's better in your opinion? Mark Streit or Keith Yandle? I think everyone would agree that Yandle is better, which is an opinion, but stats say that Streit is better... What now?... Based on the definition I gave you earlier, an opinion CANNOT be wrong. Quincey gets more ice time with a better defense partner, so that automatically means Quincey is a better player?... Yeah, okay... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kipwinger 8,756 Report post Posted January 20, 2015 I never once represented Smith as having more points and trying to pass it off as an opinion... I never stated anything as opinion that can be proven by stats. I am saying that Smith is a better defenseman, and that IS an opinion and it is NOT wrong. Get the f*** over yourself Kip. You're not always right... Who's better in your opinion? Mark Streit or Keith Yandle? I think everyone would agree that Yandle is better, which is an opinion, but stats say that Streit is better... What now?... Based on the definition I gave you earlier, an opinion CANNOT be wrong. Quincey gets more ice time with a better defense partner, so that automatically means Quincey is a better player?... Yeah, okay... All of these stats say Quincey is better, not just points. Quincey has more goals. Quincey has more assists. Quincey plays on pk. Quincey has more hits. Quincey has FEWER give aways. Quincey has more blocked shots. Quincey shoots more. Quincey has a higher shooting percentage. Quincey has a higher Corsi. Quincey starts in the offensive zone less often. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krsmith17 7,191 Report post Posted January 20, 2015 (edited) Yup, and almost every single one of those stats have to do with two different things in my OPINION... Quincey has a better, more reliable defense partner. And Quincey has nearly triple the amount of games played (experience)... Also, this isn't even necessarily about who is the better player. Like I said right from the beginning, the whole point of this conversation was, who is the better fit on the second pairing with DeKeyser (to get our offense going and make our 3 pairings more balanced). And also who is going to be better in the future, the reason I'm so adamant about not trading Smith. Also, funny how you didn't respond to the Yandle vs Streit comparison. Probably because assessing a player, which is what we are doing with Smith is absolutely an opinion... Edited January 20, 2015 by krsmith17 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kipwinger 8,756 Report post Posted January 20, 2015 (edited) Yup, and almost every single one of those stats have to do with two different things in my OPINION... Quincey has a better, more reliable defense partner. And Quincey has nearly triple the amount of games played (experience)... Also, this isn't even necessarily about who is the better player. Like I said right from the beginning, the whole point of this conversation was, who is the better fit on the second pairing with DeKeyser (to get our offense going and make our 3 pairings more balanced). And also who is going to be better in the future, the reason I'm so adamant about not trading Smith. You said "Smith is better", so forgive me for mistakenly thinking this was absolutely about "who is better". I give up. You win. Maybe one day Smith will be better. Maybe not. That's good enough for me. Edited January 20, 2015 by kipwinger Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krsmith17 7,191 Report post Posted January 20, 2015 The very thing you originally responded to, I said that Smith is currently better than Ouellet. I did not say Smith was better than Quincey. I said that the DeKeyser / Smith pair would be better than the DeKeyser / Quincey pair. Despite me having the OPINION that Smith is better than Quincey, I just think that was an amazing pairing when they were together earlier this season. So it has more to do with chemistry and balance than individual ability. I know, DeKeyser and Quincey have chemistry now too but I don't think it compares to how well DeKeyser and Smith meshed when they were put together at the beginning of the season. Again, this is all my... opinion... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dabura 12,232 Report post Posted January 20, 2015 http://www.thescore.com/nhl/news/674400 No team has been better at controlling games at even strength over the past six weeks than the Red Wings. And then you add the special teams prowess on top of that. 1 krsmith17 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rick zombo 3,739 Report post Posted January 20, 2015 http://www.thescore.com/nhl/news/674400 And then you add the special teams prowess on top of that. Yeah, this teams fancy numbers have been great. Side note: how the hell are LA ranked 4th on that list when they currently sit in 9th place in the West? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
number9 3,297 Report post Posted January 20, 2015 Brendan Smith is a dumpster fire on skates 1 pondrocket reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krsmith17 7,191 Report post Posted January 20, 2015 Lol f*** off number9... This was a serious debate until you showed up Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
number9 3,297 Report post Posted January 20, 2015 Lol f*** off number9... This was a serious debate until you showed up Oh don't stop the debate bc of me. I love ur guys Brendan bouts. Seriously though, Rielly is better 2 krsmith17 and kipwinger reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kipwinger 8,756 Report post Posted January 20, 2015 Oh don't stop the debate bc of me. I love ur guys Brendan bouts. Seriously though, Rielly is better Riley was the 20th best player at his position a year ago. Just sayin'. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
joesuffP 1,746 Report post Posted January 20, 2015 Smith has had great rushes, hits and plays so it's easy to think of him as a great talent but those are few and far between. Like weeks apart. I'll never forgive him for our last game against Boston when Marchand was exiting his zone with his head down and Smith was about to lay him out, perfectly reading the play but ended up on his ass while Marchand still maintained control of the puck, even though Marchand didn't even see Smith. It made me embarrassed of my team. This is Smith in a nutshell. Can never put it all together Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krsmith17 7,191 Report post Posted January 20, 2015 That right there sums it up perfectly. Fans in general tend to hold on to the bad moments for way too long and forget the good ones. A player can have a game where he makes an amazing play to set up a goal, and then he makes an untimely turnover... Which one do most fans remember? Add on top of that, a player that has already been labeled, it's not easy to drop that label... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FlashyG 1,799 Report post Posted January 23, 2015 As long as we have this guy, we're always contenders. 7 jimmyemeryhunter, Namingway, CaliforniaWingsFan and 4 others reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Desert Rat 78 Report post Posted January 23, 2015 That right there sums it up perfectly. Fans in general tend to hold on to the bad moments for way too long and forget the good ones. A player can have a game where he makes an amazing play to set up a goal, and then he makes an untimely turnover... Which one do most fans remember? Add on top of that, a player that has already been labeled, it's not easy to drop that label... Like Quincey. If he has a rare bad play this season my Twitter blows up with all the hate. It took him a while to adjust but he's reliable and it's nice to see. I think he's a big part of our surprising defense this year. I wish we could land Yandle. Do we really have a true offensive defenseman in the pipes other than Sproul? I wish we could part with some defensive D prospects to snag him. 1 number9 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
