Zetterberg leaves after 2nd Period; "upper body injury"

[kliq 3,755]

I'm thinking in the next CBA talks - the elimination of fighting will gain some traction from the NHLPA as there's a shrinking number of players who partake in fighting, and the general attitude is changing as well...Last time I checked - roughly 90% to 95% polled still felt it was part of the game at the pro level...I'm fairly certain it'll be out of the game within 15 years.

I think the key may be taking it out of the minor league/junior level. The reason why NHLers don't want it removed is because they grew up watching it, they grew up in it, but they have not felt the aftermath of it yet. If it was taken out at the minor league levels, when those players got to the NHL they wouldn't think anything of it. Its coming, it will probably take a death, or the NHL losing a giant lawsuit to do so though.

[amato 3,210]

Z & pulks both questionable for tonight's game, per the wings official site.

Pulks apparently hurt his leg in the first and neither of them practiced yesterday.

http://redwings.nhl.com/club/m_news.htm?id=754586

[WorkingOvertime 536]

I don't feel qualified to say whether one sport is worse than the other with regards to causing brain injuries. They both demonstrably have a serious issue with it. I do, however, feel that ANY sports league should absolutely prioritize the health and safety of their players. One easy way to do that, in hockey, is to take unnecessary (and avoidable) hits to the head out of the game. And one very easy way to do that is to remove fighting by removing the "so called" need for it...increase penalties for serious infractions to the point where players err on the side of caution.

Caution. The operable word. Heaven forbid human beings in the 21st Century learn how to enjoy sports where players must be cautious of one another.

How do you remove fighting? Make it a one game suspension? Will that deter players from trying to get others to fight? I doubt the Flyers would care if Rinaldo was suspended one game for getting (almost) any player for the other team off the ice for a game during the playoffs.

IMO heavier penalties for dangerous hits will lead to a decrease in hitting at the NHL level. Even 'clean' hits can become dirty if the other player unexpectedly moves, and there is a margin of error with any big hit. The Wings are a good example of the decrease in 'big hits' over the past few seasons.

Good hockey is still good hockey without fighting or hitting. College games are exciting, and the women's USA v. Canada games are as intense as any game with checking. Personally, I like the NHL because it is the most physical form of hockey (at least good hockey) with the best players in the world. I wouldn't stop watching or following the NHL if hitting and fighting were eliminated, but I would watch less NHL and more college, minor, etc.

[puckloo39 5,686]

Z & pulks both questionable for tonight's game, per the wings official site.

Pulks apparently hurt his leg in the first and neither of them practiced yesterday.

http://redwings.nhl.com/club/m_news.htm?id=754586

I suspect they are sitting Hank as a precaution and he will be back shortly. Don't need any Ducks taking shots at his head tonight, too.

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

Not as happy as this post just made me. Because if you, and this drivel, are the opposition then I know I'm going to win. I know that eventually my point of view will carry the day because the people arguing against me say things like this ^^^^^^^.

If I had my way, you'd be the face of the pro-fighting crowd. I'd put you on TV and let you write opinion pieces on TSN. Then I'd follow your silly arguments with the brain trauma experts, and the analytics guys, and the former players with behavior issues, and the coaches who don't use enforcers.

I'd let you say exactly what you (and Frank) always say, and then I'd let the sensible people say what they've got to say, and all the undecided people would laugh at how silly you sound. How crazy your position is. And you'd lose. Because you're on the wrong side of history and your position isn't clever enough to overcome that deficiency.

So keep saying what you say. I mean it. Keep trying to convince people with crap like this.

And I'll win and you'll lose in no time at all.

Are you trying to join Crymson on hfboards or something?

[puckloo39 5,686]

http://www.wingingitinmotown.com/2015/2/23/8089385/morning-skate-red-wings-at-ducks

No Z or Pookie... What's with the Benn family trying to kill the Wings, anyway?

Pasha, Tatar, and Helm are the listed top line, in Z's absence.

[jeff48109 474]

i don't understand why babcock continues to put Weiss on the 4th line! he is useless there.

[miksteri 55]

i don't understand why babcock continues to put Weiss on the 4th line! he is useless there.

'Cos Babcock is the greatest coach ever!

[kipwinger 8,524]

Are you trying to join Crymson on hfboards or something?

If I get banned for arguing this point, the moderators of this forum should be ashamed. I'm arguing with two guys who have consistently used homophobia as a way of defending a point of view that is hardly defensible in the first place. I don't know how else to describe that type of thinking other than to say it's stupid, insensible, archaic, and disgusting. I guess maybe I'd call it "fundamentally sickening and inhuman". That's pretty accurate.

Nevertheless, I actually appreciate (even though I don't agree) your view on fighting. Because at least the logical basis for it rest on nostalgia, and not the denigration of other groups of people.

Edited February 23, 2015 by kipwinger

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

If I get banned for arguing this point, the moderators of this forum should be ashamed. I'm arguing with two guys who have consistently used homophobia as a way of defending a point of view that is hardly defensible in the first place. I don't know how else to describe that type of thinking other than to say it's stupid, insensible, archaic, and disgusting. I guess maybe I'd call it "fundamentally sickening and inhuman". That's pretty accurate.

Nevertheless, I actually appreciate (even though I don't agree) your view on fighting. Because at least the logical basis for it rest on nostalgia, and not the denigration of other groups of people.

I only wrote that because your post looked like it was written by a Dragonball Z villain. Especially the last line.

[kipwinger 8,524]

I only wrote that because your post looked like it was written by a Dragonball Z villain. Especially the last line.

How do you know I'm not? And that your precious little McGrattan cannot save you? What is it like to be so helpless muahahahahaahahahaha?

But seriously, Roman Reigns won the Royal Rumble. Roman. Reigns.

Now that's a travesty.

[Jersey Wing 1,521]

NEXT MAN UP!!

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

How do you know I'm not? And that your precious little McGrattan cannot save you? What is it like to be so helpless muahahahahaahahahaha?

But seriously, Roman Reigns won the Royal Rumble. Roman. Reigns.

Now that's a travesty.

The wrong guy wins it every year.

But seriously, there is no right or wrong in these enforcer debates. There's good arguments on both sides. Teams have dressed enforcers for decades, knowing the roster spot could go to a more talented player instead. I doubt all GM's and coaches were stupid. I doubt the Wings didn't have a guy more talented than Grimson to dress in 1995. So there is a place in the game for enforcers nowadays like there was in the past. Not like there's only 3 lines being used now instead of the 4 that were used in the past.

The other argument about how hockey exists in other countries without fighting, and how concussions result in suicide and brain injuries is also a good one.

[kipwinger 8,524]

The wrong guy wins it every year.

But seriously, there is no right or wrong in these enforcer debates. There's good arguments on both sides. Teams have dressed enforcers for decades, knowing the roster spot could go to a more talented player instead. I doubt all GM's and coaches were stupid. I doubt the Wings didn't have a guy more talented than Grimson to dress in 1995. So there is a place in the game for enforcers nowadays like there was in the past. Not like there's only 3 lines being used now instead of the 4 that were used in the past.

The other argument about how hockey exists in other countries without fighting, and how concussions result in suicide and brain injuries is also a good one.

There are a whole lot of bad arguments too. One of them, which seems to be a common refrain around here, is that "fighting is good because otherwise hockey is homosexual" or it's "sissy", or "like soccer", "lady like", or some other thinly veiled innuendo. That's a problem; for LGW in particular, and the hockey community in general.

Which is why I can appreciate someone with a little more sense than that, regardless of whether or not I agree with you.

[hillbillywingsfan 792]

There are a whole lot of bad arguments too. One of them, which seems to be a common refrain around here, is that "fighting is good because otherwise hockey is homosexual" or it's "sissy", or "like soccer", "lady like", or some other thinly veiled innuendo. That's a problem; for LGW in particular, and the hockey community in general.

Which is why I can appreciate someone with a little more sense than that, regardless of whether or not I agree with you.

You're right....Because making someone who gets millions pay 10k for sucker punching our captain and putting him out will deter benn the next time he decides to do it. Not a punch to the face. That's so barbaric.

We need a wiki now to show us how to sneak in flowers and love letters to the next game so when someone runs one of our players or punches them in the back of the head we can all throw those onto the ice and tell said player how much we love him and appreciate his hard work. WE LOVE YOU BENN GROUP HUG!!!

[jimmyemeryhunter 2,747]

You're right....Because making someone who gets millions pay 10k for sucker punching our captain and putting him out will deter benn the next time he decides to do it. Not a punch to the face. That's so barbaric.

We need a wiki now to show us how to sneak in flowers and love letters to the next game so when someone runs one of our players or punches them in the back of the head we can all throw those onto the ice and tell said player how much we love him and appreciate his hard work. WE LOVE YOU BENN GROUP HUG!!!

You could just send your love letters and flowers to the American airlines center.

I'm sure someone will give them to him.

Edited February 23, 2015 by jimmyemeryhunter

[kipwinger 8,524]

You're right....Because making someone who gets millions pay 10k for sucker punching our captain and putting him out will deter benn the next time he decides to do it. Not a punch to the face. That's so barbaric.

We need a wiki now to show us how to sneak in flowers and love letters to the next game so when someone runs one of our players or punches them in the back of the head we can all throw those onto the ice and tell said player how much we love him and appreciate his hard work. WE LOVE YOU BENN GROUP HUG!!!

Is that what I said?

[Rhah 195]

Don't waste a roster spot. Just look at Carcillo on the Hawks. Gooning it up yesterday. He is so out of place on that roster of skilled players.

[frankgrimes 1,836]

You're right....Because making someone who gets millions pay 10k for sucker punching our captain and putting him out will deter benn the next time he decides to do it. Not a punch to the face. That's so barbaric.

We need a wiki now to show us how to sneak in flowers and love letters to the next game so when someone runs one of our players or punches them in the back of the head we can all throw those onto the ice and tell said player how much we love him and appreciate his hard work. WE LOVE YOU BENN GROUP HUG!!!

Yeah let's all send Benn some love-letters and flowers maybe if we do the same thing with the NHL department of players safety they'll come to their senses and fine a multi-millionaire 10.000 bucks lol

The only way I'm sending him a letter would be if a guy like Colton Orr, Brian McGrattan or Frazer McLaren delivers the letter on the ice

Edited February 23, 2015 by frankgrimes

[Internet.Unknown 422]

He says it right in the post that he's canadien. Your chosen idiom doesn't work in this situation.

So by claiming that Canadiens are racist and being Canadien himself, he proves his point by ... being racist. Gotcha.

[hillbillywingsfan 792]

Is that what I said?

Well if you don't want him to get his "comeupins" on the ice what is the alternative? What do you suggest. Fine him 1 million?

Hockey was always known to have its players regulate their own on the ice. Not so much now.

Edited February 23, 2015 by hillbillywingsfan

[kipwinger 8,524]

Well if you don't want him to get his "comeupins" on the ice what is the alternative? What do you suggest. Fine him 1 million?

Continue to increase the economic consequences, for both the player AND the team, until the behavior stops. I don't know the exact number it will take to make these jackasses stop, but that doesn't mean the number doesn't exist. Continue to increase the fines and suspensions (lost wages on top of fines) until you see a noticeable decrease in dirty hits.

It works for every single other sport. I don't know why people think hockey's so much different that it needs special extrajudicial violence to make it safe.

[cnot19 191]

Continue to increase the economic consequences, for both the player AND the team, until the behavior stops. I don't know the exact number it will take to make these jackasses stop, but that doesn't mean the number doesn't exist. Continue to increase the fines and suspensions (lost wages on top of fines) until you see a noticeable decrease in dirty hits.

It works for every single other sport. I don't know why people think hockey's so much different that it needs special extrajudicial violence to make it safe.

I do not believe this has happened in any other sport with success. You still have guys blasting qbs and wrs. Still have people stomping on guys. Also mind you this is hardly an easy thing to make happen the nhlpa would certainly be against it. I do not believe that fines can be made substantial enough for there to be a noticeable decrease in dirty hits.

I like fighting because I like to see people stand up for themselves.

[kipwinger 8,524]

I do not believe this has happened in any other sport with success. You still have guys blasting qbs and wrs. Still have people stomping on guys. Also mind you this is hardly an easy thing to make happen the nhlpa would certainly be against it. I do not believe that fines can be made substantial enough for there to be a noticeable decrease in dirty hits.

I like fighting because I like to see people stand up for themselves.

This is exactly the problem with this debate. The fighting people ways respond with "well fines won't get rid of cheap shots 100%". Of course they won't. But it'll work better than enforcers have. Every single contact sport has fewer malicious hits and cheapshots than the NHL has because they have stiffer fines.

Don't believe me? What was the big dirty hit epidemic the NFL used to have? Spearing. You almost never see it in NFL games anymore. Why? What got rid of it? Definitely not a bunch of goons beating the s*** out of each other. It was fines. BIG fines.

You guys act like if another method of punishment won't completely eradicate dirty hits, that it's not worth doing. That's false logic. The fact that it's not a PERFECT deterrent doesn't mean it's not a BETTER deterrent.

[cnot19 191]

This is exactly the problem with this debate. The fighting people ways respond with "well fines won't get rid of cheap shots 100%". Of course they won't. But it'll work better than enforcers have. Every single contact sport has fewer malicious hits and cheapshots than the NHL has because they have stiffer fines.

Don't believe me? What was the big dirty hit epidemic the NFL used to have? Spearing. You almost never see it in NFL games anymore. Why? What got rid of it? Definitely not a bunch of goons beating the s*** out of each other. It was fines. BIG fines.

You guys act like if another method of punishment won't completely eradicate dirty hits, that it's not worth doing. That's false logic. The fact that it's not a PERFECT deterrent doesn't mean it's not a BETTER deterrent.

The nfl still has an epidemic of guys killing defenseless receivers. Still has guys chop blocking.

I also think the nhl will always have the dirtiest amount of plays because the game is so fast but also because of the huge difference in size between some guys.

Lol of course you put words on my mouth as well saying that i think it needs to work 100%

Have you ever thought that these huge fines haven't been implemented because there is not enough of a movement within the league and nhlpa to implement them

Edited February 23, 2015 by cnot19