Losing Streak affecting Babcock's Decision?

[MrazekFanBoy 223]

Jeez number9 your like the wise grandpa of the forums who also happens to be a d*ck lol I like you tho!

[kipwinger 8,524]

How many more cups would you like? Since Babcocks tenure began only 2 teams have won more than 1 cup. And lately the talent just hasn't been there to win.

I'd like to know why you think Babs can't manage the current team? No sarcasm involved I'd genuinely like to know?

Because we are a team full of guys who, because of our late round picks, were selected for their hockey smarts and skill level. And not because of their physically dominant traits. And because he's a coach who consistent wants to subordinate offense for "heaviness", and shot suppression. He'd be a great coach for teams like Columbus, LA, or Anaheim. But not for a team full of guys who learned how to play the game in a European, puck possession, type system.

[MrazekFanBoy 223]

He could go back to Anaheim I never thought of that

[number9 3,297]

Yes. Every great coach was a rookie once. I don't see how that precludes someone from being in the discussion. Further I don't think this team is right on the cusp of greatness. It'll be a year or two before we are an elite team again. When our young guys enter their primes. At which point blashill wouldn't be a rookie anymore. He would, however, still be the coach who has won with these guys, developed these guys, built report with these guys, and (hopefully) brought a fresh perspective to their abilities, and dynamic.

I agree with you on all those points. But I'm willing to send Blashill out just like we sent Yzerman, Nill, and a multitude of other coaches out. Why take on something unproven when you already have something great? I'm not gonna throw away a top 5 coach to gamble on a guy just cause he was successful in a lesser league. If Dave Lewis was our coach I'd partial, but he's not.

Jeez number9 your like the wise grandpa of the forums who also happens to be a d*ck lol I like you tho!

Appreciate the brown nosing, but I don't know or like you back dude sorry.

Because we are a team full of guys who, because of our late round picks, were selected for their hockey smarts and skill level. And not because of their physically dominant traits. And because he's a coach who consistent wants to subordinate offense for "heaviness", and shot suppression. He'd be a great coach for teams like Columbus, LA, or Anaheim. But not for a team full of guys who learned how to play the game in a European, puck possession, type system.

Where as I'd say he brings the perfect coaching balance to a team full of euros

[kipwinger 8,524]

I agree with you on all those points. But I'm willing to send Blashill out just like we sent Yzerman, Nill, and a multitude of other coaches out. Why take on something unproven when you already have something great? I'm not gonna throw away a top 5 coach to gamble on a guy just cause he was successful in a lesser league. If Dave Lewis was our coach I'd partial, but he's not.

Appreciate the brown nosing, but I don't know or like you back dude sorry.

Because I don't believe he is great. I think he's good. And I think he'd be great in an organization that shared his philosophy. But in this one he's a square peg in a round hole. As his use of legwand, Weiss, glendening, and Anderson attest. Get a coach who knows how to utilize the types of talent our organization supplies. That's easier than finding a new gm, scouts, etc. And why would you want to anyway? They're more accomplished than he is...by a lot.

[wings87 1,290]

I don't expect him to win ever single year, but you guys are downplaying some of the really great teams he had and lost with. His teams were not mediocre in 2005 or 2009. I get irritated when people act like he's had nothing to work with. He's had good, to great teams since joining the wings. He's got one cup. He's not such a super duper coach that its anathema to even consider life after Babcock.

I am just as pissed as the next guy that the Wings didn't take advantage of the teams they had and won more, but all the blame can't be placed on Babcocks doorstep. 05 I blame on Legace, who had a terrible time in the playoffs. 09 should have been a win, but I have a hard time blaming the loss on Babcock. The officiating was just crap, and if we are going to blame anyone for the loss, how about laying some blame on Stuart and his giveaways. The parity in the NHL since the lockout has also been a huge part of why many teams are failing to repeat. Not to say that Babcock is completely blameless, I just believe that by and large the majority of coaches are interchangeable, since most of what happens depends on the players. And I'm sure that after some growing pains, Blashill would do a fine job, I just don't see a reason to make a change.

[number9 3,297]

Because I don't believe he is great. I think he's good. And I think he'd be great in an organization that shared his philosophy. But in this one he's a square peg in a round hole. As his use of legwand, Weiss, glendening, and Anderson attest. Get a coach who knows how to utilize the types of talent our organization supplies. That's easier than finding a new gm, scouts, etc. And why would you want to anyway? They're more accomplished than he is...by a lot.

You really want to gauge his coaching on Legwand, Weiss, Glendening, and Andersson? I'm prepared to defend his decisions on all those players.

[kipwinger 8,524]

I am just as pissed as the next guy that the Wings didn't take advantage of the teams they had and won more, but all the blame can't be placed on Babcocks doorstep. 05 I blame on Legace, who had a terrible time in the playoffs. 09 should have been a win, but I have a hard time blaming the loss on Babcock. The officiating was just crap, and if we are going to blame anyone for the loss, how about laying some blame on Stuart and his giveaways. The parity in the NHL since the lockout has also been a huge part of why many teams are failing to repeat. Not to say that Babcock is completely blameless, I just believe that by and large the majority of coaches are interchangeable, since most of what happens depends on the players. And I'm sure that after some growing pains, Blashill would do a fine job, I just don't see a reason to make a change.

You're obscuring the point though. I was simply stating that those were great teams, and if he were so heads and tails better than every other coach then he probably should have won with them. And if he didn't win with those great teams, then clearly he's not so excellent that talk of replacing him is as absurd as it is often made out to be.

[number9 3,297]

You're obscuring the point though. I was simply stating that those were great teams, and if he were so heads and tails better than every other coach then he probably should have won with them. And if he didn't win with those great teams, then clearly he's not so excellent that talk of replacing him is as absurd as it is often made out to be.

I think your overstating how great we think babs is

[kipwinger 8,524]

You really want to gauge his coaching on Legwand, Weiss, Glendening, and Andersson? I'm prepared to defend his decisions on all those players.

I'm sure you are lol.

[wings87 1,290]

Because we are a team full of guys who, because of our late round picks, were selected for their hockey smarts and skill level. And not because of their physically dominant traits. And because he's a coach who consistent wants to subordinate offense for "heaviness", and shot suppression. He'd be a great coach for teams like Columbus, LA, or Anaheim. But not for a team full of guys who learned how to play the game in a European, puck possession, type system.

This is where your argument loses me, since because of the high point totals the Wings have always selected late, this is not a new occurrence. They have been a skill first team for years and when they had the skill to play that sort of game they did. Babcock didn't stand in their way. It's just that the skill is no longer there, which only leaves them with the option of playing heavier on the puck. I'm sure you've seen what happens to the current roster when they start playing too cute. If all Babcock wanted was tough play, Tootoo would still be on the team.

[number9 3,297]

I'm sure you are lol.

You brought em up friend, not me

[kipwinger 8,524]

I think your overstating how great we think babs is

I've seen mike Babcock regularly referred to as a genius, and a hero around here. And the fact that the mere idea of replacing him is met with such objection, seems to echo that. I'm not saying g replaced him with Marc Crawford or john tortorella. But I am saying that its not unrealistic to think that blashill could do better with this team full of guys he's already won with.

[kipwinger 8,524]

This is where your argument loses me, since because of the high point totals the Wings have always selected late, this is not a new occurrence. They have been a skill first team for years and when they had the skill to play that sort of game they did. Babcock didn't stand in their way. It's just that the skill is no longer there, which only leaves them with the option of playing heavier on the puck. I'm sure you've seen what happens to the current roster when they start playing too cute. If all Babcock wanted was tough play, Tootoo would still be on the team.

I think he does stand in the way. Elsewhere I have pointed out that when our team was in the midst of its best winning streaks, and 5 on 5 scoring this year, he's repeatedly castigated the team and changed the lines to get the goals against down lower. He has repeatedly changed a winning lineup, for one that loses, although by a closer goal margin. He wants a banging, crashing, defense first style of play, and we just dont have the team built for that.

[number9 3,297]

I've seen mike Babcock regularly referred to as a genius, and a hero around here. And the fact that the mere idea of replacing him is met with such objection, seems to echo that. I'm not saying g replaced him with Marc Crawford or john tortorella. But I am saying that its not unrealistic to think that blashill could do better with this team full of guys he's already won with.

And I'm saying that a rookie coach, just like a rookie player, could very well struggle with this team. I don't think Babs is something that isn't replaceable, I think he's something that doesn't warrant replacing.

I think he does stand in the way. Elsewhere I have pointed out that when our team was in the midst of its best winning streaks, and 5 on 5 scoring this year, he's repeatedly castigated the team and changed the lines to get the goals against down lower. He has repeatedly changed a winning lineup, for one that loses, although by a closer goal margin. He wants a banging, crashing, defense first style of play, and we just dont have the team built for that.

For the majority of the year his team WAS built for that and executed it. Now a slump has come and you sir have jumped off/on the band wagon.

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

I get both your points ... We might regret losing Babcock if it happens but I won't lose sleep over it ... Sometimes a team just needs a new voice

If he stays it's all good if not the show much go on ... I don't know if Blashill is the replacement if Babs leaves ... Maybe Todd McClellan if sj fires him?

I'm pretty sure if Babcock wants more power on running the show behind the scenes then he's most likely a goner

[kipwinger 8,524]

And I'm saying that a rookie coach, just like a rookie player, could very well struggle with this team. I don't think Babs is something that isn't replaceable, I think he's something that doesn't warrant replacing.

Point taken. But struggle more than what? Repeated first round loses and late season floundering? I'm not talking about replacing him after a whole bunch of division or conference championships. When was the last time we even won our division? Its not like he's tearing up the regular season and then losing playoff Heartbreakers. We've been consistently mediocre of late. He's got a bigger , younger, healthier, and more talented lineup than he's had in years. If he can't get it done this season, I don't see why it would be such a bad idea to consider a change in direction.

And I'm saying that a rookie coach, just like a rookie player, could very well struggle with this team. I don't think Babs is something that isn't replaceable, I think he's something that doesn't warrant replacing.

For the majority of the year his team WAS built for that and executed it. Now a slump has come and you sir have jumped off/on the band wagon.

You take that back! I have never, ever, been on the Babcock bandwagon and that is well documented around here lol.

[wings87 1,290]

You're obscuring the point though. I was simply stating that those were great teams, and if he were so heads and tails better than every other coach then he probably should have won with them. And if he didn't win with those great teams, then clearly he's not so excellent that talk of replacing him is as absurd as it is often made out to be.

Noone is saying he's irreplaceable, which is why I said that most coaches are interchangeable. Here's a thought maybe the Wings teams weren't as great as we thought they where? How much of the teams failure in the playoffs can be placed on a coach? 50%? 80%? When do the players become accountable for ******* up a great chance at winning multiple cups? Could the team have won more with a different coach? Maybe or maybe the teams wouldn't have been considered as good as they where with someone else at the helm. It really is something that can't be answered. It's also not at all absurd to think that he is replaceable in fact he is just as expandable as most coaches that have ever coached in any professional sport. I'm not trying to make him into a saint, I just plainly think he's a top NHL coach that has done a good job. Is Blashill the next great coach? Or is he just the flavor of the month? Only time will tell. I'm not going to get all hysterical if Babcock decides to leave, but I see no reason to replace him if he wants to stay.

[kipwinger 8,524]

Noone is saying he's irreplaceable, which is why I said that most coaches are interchangeable. Here's a thought maybe the Wings teams weren't as great as we thought they where? How much of the teams failure in the playoffs can be placed on a coach? 50%? 80%? When do the players become accountable forf****** up a great chance at winning multiple cups? Could the team have won more with a different coach? Maybe or maybe the teams wouldn't have been considered as good as they where with someone else at the helm. It really is something that can't be answered. It's also not at all absurd to think that he is replaceable in fact he is just as expandable as most coaches that have ever coached in any professional sport. I'm not trying to make him into a saint, I just plainly think he's a top NHL coach that has done a good job. Is Blashill the next great coach? Or is he just the flavor of the month? Only time will tell. I'm not going to get all hysterical if Babcock decides to leave, but I see no reason to replace him if he wants to stay.

Again, I think he's a good coach too. But I don't think he's the right one for this team right now. The proof is in the pudding. He's got a very good team right now, its up to him to do something with it. I don't expect a cup this year. But I do expect more than a late season collapse and early playoff exit. And I don't think that's asking too much out of a top coach leading a team full of 20+ goal scorers and veteran stars.

[wings87 1,290]

I think he does stand in the way. Elsewhere I have pointed out that when our team was in the midst of its best winning streaks, and 5 on 5 scoring this year, he's repeatedly castigated the team and changed the lines to get the goals against down lower. He has repeatedly changed a winning lineup, for one that loses, although by a closer goal margin. He wants a banging, crashing, defense first style of play, and we just dont have the team built for that.

Your argument implies that the Wings are a consistent team, which they are not. I also can't totally disagree with you in that he changes the lineup far too much and sometimes not enough. It's just this team lately has been so inconsistent that no matter how much we would like to blame the juggling, it just might not be the reason we can't win. As far as the D goes every coach in the league wants a "banging, crashing, defense" and frankly thats the way it should be, especially when the team lacks real skill on the blue line.

[wings87 1,290]

Again, I think he's a good coach too. But I don't think he's the right one for this team right now. The proof is in the pudding. He's got a very good team right now, its up to him to do something with it. I don't expect a cup this year. But I do expect more than a late season collapse and early playoff exit. And I don't think that's asking too much out of a top coach leading a team full of 20+ goal scorers and veteran stars.

I'm a pretty optimistic guy and I have a hard time calling this a good team. 5-5 we're terrible, the PP has carried us all year, and no matter who coaches this team the D corp is porous to say the least. Pav is still a star, Z is still a good player but a star in reputation only. I don't know what the hell has happened to Kronwall lately but he's not himself either. It's great to score 20+ goals but if the team D sucks and they can't get consistent goal tending it won't win. Should Babs get more out of this team or has he squeezed all from them that he can? Truthfully I don't know. Players have to want to be great. It's amazing how many periods the team does almost nothing but stand around with their thumbs up their ass not doing anything. Don't get me wrong, I get your point. I really really do. I just can't honestly say that another coach would do any better with this group.

[kipwinger 8,524]

I'm a pretty optimistic guy and I have a hard time calling this a good team. 5-5 we're terrible, the PP has carried us all year, and no matter who coaches this team the D corp is porous to say the least. Pav is still a star, Z is still a good player but a star in reputation only. I don't know what the hell has happened to Kronwall lately but he's not himself either. It's great to score 20+ goals but if the team D sucks and they can't get consistent goal tending it won't win. Should Babs get more out of this team or has he squeezed all from them that he can? Truthfully I don't know. Players have to want to be great. It's amazing how many periods the team does almost nothing but stand around with their thumbs up their ass not doing anything. Don't get me wrong, I get your point. I really really do. I just can't honestly say that another coach would do any better with this group.

Well, you can argue it all you want. But Mike Babcock is on record as saying this is the best team, AND the most offensively capable team, we've had since 2009.

If you completely disagree, then maybe that says something about the coach you favor.

[wings87 1,290]

Well, you can argue it all you want. But Mike Babcock is on record as saying this is the best team, AND the most offensively capable team, we've had since 2009.

If you completely disagree, then maybe that says something about the coach you favor.

It might very well be the best offensive team since 09, defensively they're just short of terrible. Whether he believes what he said or not, only he can knows for certain. What I do know is that coaches make up a lot of things to either praise a team or admonish it, just because it's said to the media doesn't automatically mean it's true. Either way I've pretty much exhausted all I have to say on the subject.

[mvanpop 98]

I think this could easily turn into a Barry Trotz in Nashville situation

[frankgrimes 1,836]

I really hope not. Babs for sure might be looking at the big picture and weighting all the pros and cons plus asking his family about the situation and then decide what to do and why wouldn't he ? He will be highest paid coach with his next contract and a ton of teams are going to want him (including some up and coming teams). Save for the obvious "every prospect is going to turn out and even better than we've hoped" crowd I'm not so sure about the future of this team. Yes Nqcuist, Tatar, Sheahan and DannyD are all nice players and turned out well but the point is, soon this team will have to replace to ridiculously talented and hardworking centers and no, neither Larkin nor that Athanas (if they turn out to be solid top 6 contributors that would be very nice), guy is going to come even close to their level so if the D still isn't fixed by then the defense and offense will take another hit, how big will be determent by future UFA signings and the development stage from some of the younger players. Keep in mind I haven't even mentioned Kronwall who might be too old by then too and if fans can see that I'm very sure Babcock is very aware and concerned about the situation too.

Blashill may be talking like Babcock and having success in the AHL but the NHL is a completely different beast, so who knows he could turn out to be great or maybe just average but replacing the best coach in all of hockey is a huge task for everyone no matter how much - and he's done a ton of it - someone has done in the AHL. I also think Babcock wants and deserves more of a say in roster decisions (a Roy/Sakic like relationship) and I'm not sure if Holland is ready to offer that but one thing I'M very sure of: if the Map le Leafs fans still believe that the best owner in all of sports will let him go if they offer 4 mill / year they're in for a huge surprise and a long negotiating war :-)

Lately I've thought about another team that could be a darkhorse here the Anaheim Ducks: Perry and Getzlaf are in their prime, a very good an already established young core plus they are big and compete hard in all situations so if Samueli is willing to join the bidding-war the Ducks would be a very intersting choice, beautiful place to live, less pressure and I'm sure Murray would offer a Roy/Sakic like situation. So all in all Babcock has a ton of options and I don't think a recent winning nor losing streak is going to affect his decision but it will for sure be the top story of the off-season no wheter what he decides to do.

Edited March 22, 2015 by frankgrimes